Yet another PPE advice post (OTTB)

[marmarmar]

I’ve read all of the relevant posts but would still like to hear everyone’s experiences. This will be my first time purchasing a horse after many years of leasing. He has been with me for the last almost 6 months under a lease-to-own, and we are coming up on decision time. He is a 2011 OTTB who raced until 2017. Had some degree of formal training put on him but ended up sitting around for a while before he came to me. Can’t say enough good things about him, he is a great horse. With me he would most likely stay doing lower level stuff, and would have a home with me for the rest of his life.

I want to do a reasonably thorough PPE on him, but I’m not sure to what extent I should get him x-rayed. Our vet does a basic PPE physical + flexions for around $100, and radiographs are around $45/pop. This is a $4k horse and while I know PPEs can’t predict the future, I would like to know the good, the bad, and the ugly sooner rather than later. With that being said, I don’t want to spend his asking price on his PPE…

For those of you with OTTBs, what do you feel are the most important locations to x-ray? I know OTTBs often have “jewelry”. Are there any potential findings you would hard pass on? Is it worth it to x-ray his back (currently no indication of KS but I know it can lurk)? Looking to soak up everyone’s knowledge!

[GraceLikeRain]

Ankles, front feet, stifles, and hocks are my bare minimum. I said I would do back but then I didn’t this last round because I was in a fairly similar position with not wanting a PPE to start looking like the purchase price! On top of a basic physical and flexion I asked for a neuro exam.

[marmarmar]

@GraceLikeRain How many views of each would you do for the ankles/feet/stifles/hocks? And I hadn’t thought about a neuro exam. Was there a particular reason you chose to do one?

[No1]

If resale is not an issue, the horse is good on all flexions, and you just want a survey you could get away with 4 of each front foot, 2 of each ankle (lateral and AP), 2 or three of each hock, and 2 of each stifle.

TBs often have knee changes but they don’t usually bother them in sport horse careers. If you were concerned you could do 2 of each knee. (I wouldn’t, personally, unless the knees visually looked questionable). I also would not do the back or neck as long as the horse is working comfortably currently. A lot of people get hung up on back xrays, but I find it more important to evaluate the horse’s attitude to work and the job I would want them for.

That said, I’ve taken all of mine own OTTBs with no xrays at all, for various reasons.

[GraceLikeRain]

@No1

If resale is not an issue, the horse is good on all flexions, and you just want a survey you could get away with 4 of each front foot, 2 of each ankle (lateral and AP), 2 or three of each hock, and 2 of each stifle.

That’s exactly what I did. When I think about the big things I hear about it tends to be navicular, ringbone, bone chips, changed to the hocks, etc so these views give some insight into what may be ahead.

I ended up with a four year old who was neuro so for me a neuro exam is nonnegotiable. I see a lot out and about who look low grade neurological and I think the typical owner is not equipped to notice those signs. I’d rather have a vet do a true exam than assume.

[NancyM]

You’ve known and ridden the horse for 6 months, had no soundness issues, he’s a great horse, and he’s a $4000 investment? I wouldn’t get a vet involved with the sale at all. You only risk frightening yourself, and creating worry. You already know more about the horse than the vet does. What are you going to do if the vet finds something that may or may not effect the horse at some point in the future? Walk away from the sale and go look at other horses offered for sale? There are no guarantees, of anything, ever, when you are buying a horse… no matter how much vetting you do, or how much the horse or the vetting costs. The key is to not spend more money on a purchase price than you can afford to flush down the toilet. Good luck!

[marmarmar]

@No1 @GraceLikeRain Thank you!! I really appreciate the feedback. This is about what I was expecting as far as locations and # of radiographs per

@NancyM I’ve considered this as well… I do think I would be happy enough doing the flexions but no x-rays. I just worry about missing something now that could be a problem later on. But you’re right, if they do find something, I’m not sure I would walk away given his current soundness. Thank you, I will think more on this!

[Where_sMyWhite]

The only reason I’d take the x-rays is not necessarily to look for a problem but to have a baseline set in the event he has issues in the future so you can identify changes from this baseline set.

Racing for 3-4 years… did you see any ‘gaps’ for a letdown or possible issue? With a reasonable number of races under his belt and you haven’t noticed anything in 6 months, I don’t know that I’d get incredibly worked up over a neuro exam.

[marmarmar]

@Where_sMyWhite Good point about the baseline films. He had 26 starts over 3 years. No big gaps, and it looks like he was retired just due to slowing down

As far as neuro, what are things to look out for? I haven’t noticed anything but I’ve never dealt with a neuro horse before. Stumbling? Lack of straightness?

[Redlei44]

I think this is very much a personal preference issue. I would want to know, just to know. Maybe the PPE turns up nothing, maybe it turns up some inconclusive stuff that I am free to decide is not concerning based on having known and ridden the horse for 6 months, maybe it turns up something extremely concerning that makes me reconsider buying. No way to know without doing it. I have an active imagination so having info is better than not having info, and I agree that having the baseline can be very handy.

Regarding percent of purchase price, I am not just trying to figure out whether I can afford to lose the purchase price if it doesn’t work out, but also whether I can afford to board and/or retire one that doesn’t work out. Which is the same cost whether the horse is free or 100k. So I may not go nuts with extra X-ray views of the feet or whatever, but I’m not going to exclude anything from the PPE based on the purchase price.

[EventingMaff]

If you’ve had the horse for 6 months with no indications of pain or discomfort and he’s already doing the job that he will continue to do with you - I would only xray if something comes up in the vet diagnostic / flexions.
If in the budget, I would do basic shots of all four feet - as a baseline and to share with farrier. After two (young) horses with mild kissing spine, I would also do 2-3 shots of the back.

Hocks, stifles, ankles - I wouldn’t radiograph unless there was indications of issues based on the last 6 months or the vet notices something during PPE.

[Against_All_Odds2]

My vet does a side shot of all hooves which includes the ankle (4 slides) and a front and side view of each hock (4 views) for a total of 8 views on a more basic level PPE. My PPE was $1000 including mileage as it was about 2 hours away.

[SonnysMom]

Is the horse currently insured by you? Are you going to insure the horse after purchase? Anything discovered on PPE might be excluded by insurance in the future or upon renewal even if it isn’t a deal breaker since you now know about it.

Since you have had the horse for 6 months with no soundness issues this is different that PPE for a horse that is totally unknown.

[trubandloki]

@Where_sMyWhite

The only reason I’d take the x-rays is not necessarily to look for a problem but to have a baseline set in the event he has issues in the future so you can identify changes from this baseline set.

This is totally my thought too. I think X-rays now are handy later.

[mmeqcenter]

@EventingMaff

If you’ve had the horse for 6 months with no indications of pain or discomfort and he’s already doing the job that he will continue to do with you - I would only xray if something comes up in the vet diagnostic / flexions.
If in the budget, I would do basic shots of all four feet - as a baseline and to share with farrier. After two (young) horses with mild kissing spine, I would also do 2-3 shots of the back.

Hocks, stifles, ankles - I wouldn’t radiograph unless there was indications of issues based on the last 6 months or the vet notices something during PPE.

Agreed

[Lusoluv]

After having purchased 5 horses over my riding career, I feel every PPE with xrays was a good investment. And when I PPE’d an expensive UNstarted 4 yr old, I almost skipped the xrays because he was the most gorgeous moving thing I’d ever seen. No pos reactions during flexions. Luckily, I stuck to my plan and xrayed anyway because we found he had a healed fracture in one of his hocks. I was devastated. I sent the xrays to 2 equine specialists along with the feedback he was a fabulous mover. They both said walk away and I did, crying all the way. Several months later a vet who was interested in this horse for dressage asked if I would send her the xrays. She looked at them and also agreed that she would not undertake the risk as serious arthritis would likely result with undersaddle work. So…I was better to be heartbroken with a coulda-woulda-shoulda horse and a $1000 PPE vs losing a partner some years into a serious relationship. I don’t own a farm to permanently retire a horse so the risk to buy blind is too much for me.

[Where_sMyWhite]

Had a similar experience. When I was getting back into horses and looking to buy, found a really nice 4YO WB cross (forget now what breeds). He was just started under saddle so fairly green.

Had a PPE with X-rays (intending on them being a baseline set for many years in the future). Vet pushed a little on getting hocks. Glad I did. A OCD (that I suspect the seller knew about but no way to know for sure) that after consultation with a larger practice soundness vet, the OCD was an in inoperable location Felt that the OCD would probably not be a problem but no way to know until he was really working doing his intended job. I decided to walk away (very disappointed) rather than take the risk of ending up with a young, unsound gelding…

[marmarmar]

Thanks everyone for sharing your thoughts and experiences!! I have lots to consider!