You can't afford a horse if you can't afford a vet....what exactly do we mean...and how about hamsters?

[S1969]

No, that’s a BS answer.

You cannot take responsibility for a living animal and fail to care for it and then shrug and say “welp, it’s better than a long trailer trip to Mexico.”

No one is forcing people to care for horses they can’t afford. Meaning you must be able to afford routine medical, dental, farrier and feeding. And you must be prepared to treat (not ignore, or treat at home) minor injuries that are not life threatening (and therefore would choose to euthanize.)

And I agree, you need to have a budget for euthanasia.

No one NEEDS to pay for colic surgery or for major treatment/rehab for their horses. Many people think they are worth it but lots do not.

But if you can’t afford the routine care for an animal - don’t get one. Put your money in the bank and save it until you can.

[kande04]

No one said “fail to care for it”, so that’s just another strawman. The idea is that no one needs to care for their animals the way internet trolls tell them they need to care for them.

Some think it’s horrible to choose euthanasia under any circumstances, while others think that minimal care is just fine. IOW, animal control requires sufficient food, water and shelter, which is a good thing for horses, because if they listened to every busybody who thinks everyone should do what they do (even if they can only manage to do it for a limited period of time) there would be a lot fewer homes for animals who need them.

[evilc123]

Just curious how much euthanasia costs…? I had to put a horse down after a colic surgery that went awry, but the euthanasia expense was wrapped up somewhere in the 7 page itemized bill for >$15K that I was too distraught to scrutinize line by line at the time. I’d be interested to know how much it costs to handle putting a horse down and then needing the remains transported, as well as how much it costs when you bring the horse in to a hospital if anyone is willing to share…

[longlanefarm]

@evilc123 I euthanized my mare last year due to a severe colic that progressed so fast we couldn’t even get her on the trailer to the hospital. Looking back, I don’t know if I would have opted for surgery anyway. If I remember correctly, it was in the $500 ballpark but I don’t remember if that included the tubing and oil, fluids, pain meds etc. we tried before she quickly spiraled down. I doubt it but not sure.

Ultimately, as someone mentioned, just because our standard of care is “up here” and someone else is only providing basic needs, doesn’t mean the basic needs provider shouldn’t necessarily own a horse. Some may view pricey and invasive treatments to prolong a life as not properly caring for an animal who is in misery but can’t voice their choice.

Ya know what opinions are like, everyone has one. Mine is, if you can’t afford to properly feed, water, shelter the horse and provide routine care/minor emergency care and to PTS if needed, you can’t afford a horse.

[trubandloki]

@evilc123

Just curious how much euthanasia costs…?

I dissected my bill from a month ago for a colic related euthanasia. Including the farm call, with emergency fees, I believe the euthanasia part of the bill is about $400.
That does not include any exam fees or such.

[evilc123]

@longlanefarm @trubandloki $400-500 isn’t nearly as much as I thought it would be.

longlanefarm - I agree with you. I personally tend to be on the extreme end of the spectrum and keep tens of thousands in my checking account specifically for equine/canine emergencies, which is my personal choice. I don’t think I would personally be able to emotionally handle being a pet owner and not having the means to do everything possible to save my pet. I am an AA, though, and I have one dog and one horse for this exact reason. I can only afford to keep those sorts of emergency funds because I choose to only have one horse and one dog. I completely understand and respect that my approach is personal and not the choice or possibility for everyone - and there’s still a lot of room for responsible horse ownership with lesser means.

trubandloki: So sorry you had to deal with that so recently. Losing them is seriously the worst.

[trubandloki]

@evilc123 That price does not include doing anything with the body. We paid a backhoe to come out and bury him, that was an addition $400.
And you are right. It was the worst. Thank you for your kind thoughts.

[fordtraktor]

Last time I euthed a horse it was around $200 including farm call, and $250 to bury.

[Denali6298]

@kande04 IMO if one doesn’t or can’t afford basic hoof care for a horse, it’s just as bad as not feeding it or giving it water.

Horse require a touch more care than food, water and shelter. They are not hamsters. If people saying that to horse owners or posting things like that here makes someone an internet troll and a busy body who is asking a lot then I am speechless.

[joiedevie99]

Mine was about $900. About $600 to the vet for the emergency call fee and cost, and another $300 to the backhoe guy to come bury the horse the same day. I gather it would have been a bit more if we couldn’t bury and needed the removal truck.

[x-halt-salute]

You learn something every day!

Here I thought this saying was really only a response to those who expect others to advise them so they don’t have to spend money on vets, or for the barnmate who’s a conspicuous consumer of status-flaunting goods but apparently can’t scrape together a couple hundred bucks to have a festering wound vetted.

Turns out it’s also meant for the folks who think that a horse suffering in a back yard is objectively better than a horse suffering in any alternative scenario, and who think counting basic preventive care and pain management among the responsibilities of animal owners is “holier than though” “grandstanding” by “internet trolls”.

The thing is, those of us who have higher standards for humane treatment of animals (a majority of CotHers, I suspect) aren’t gonna be ashamed of that just because some stranger decrees that anyone who can provide food, water, and shelter is fit to own a horse, or hurls insults at anyone who dares to opine otherwise.

[Scribbler]

With human beings, we rightly try to extend life as long as possible, though the increasing acceptance of assisted suicide moderates that slightly. But humans can exist happily enough with major mobility issues. Elderly people are generally happy enough to have 20 more years in a wheel chair to watch the grand kids grow up, watch the news, read a book, get taken to the park, etc.

Animals are much more rooted in their bodies and have fewer mental resources. It’s true there are stiff old dogs and cats who are happy to see the sun rise on another day. But I knew some people who spent thousands and thousands on medical care for a painful genetic cancer in their purebred dog, then euthanized in 3 months anyhow.

When I was a kid animals got pts much sooner in the process and I don’t think that was wrong. I do think we have trouble with the idea that everything dies eventually.

[MissCoco]

It’s my personal position/goal that I won’t own an animal that I can’t afford to give routine care to.

I do think it is fair for owners to have a euthanasia fund, and to choose to euthanize rather than pursue expensive treatments for a major injury or illness, but to me, being able to afford that, and keeping a vet fund in savings is a part of responsible pet ownership.

Right now, that means I am not able to own a horse, so instead, I keep a pair of gerbils, which leads to the question
“and how about hamsters?”
In my opinion, you can’t afford a hamster if you can’t afford a vet.

Small pet vet trips usually cost a lot less than horse vet trips, and their medicines are cheaper as well. So a lot more people can afford to responsibly care for small animals, but to me that responsibility includes treatment for treatable conditions, and a quick and painless end if a condition is not treatable.

Like horses, small pets are prey animals, and it is inherently scary for them to be unable to move quickly. Also like horses, they do their best to appear normal so they are not targeted by predators, and once you can tell they are hurting or sick, they have likely been hiding their discomfort or weakness for some time.
Like horses, these animals haven’t chosen to be domesticated, and we aren’t owed their presence in our lives.
Though they are small and not particularly bright, they do experience pain and fear, but with proper care, they experience safety and contentment. They aren’t owed any less because they are small and inexpensive to purchase.

[longlanefarm]

@Scribbler really great point. We have that issue as a society even with people. In a former life I worked in emergency medicine and the number of times I witnessed family members change the DNR wishes of their ill/injured loved one to all heroic efforts in an attempt to maintain life. It is so very sad to be a part of that when you know the person will never regain their former life even if their heart starts beating again.

We are generally kinder to animals in that regard (but not always).

@x-halt-salute I understand what you’re saying and I agree that most COTHers have higher standards than the average bear. I do think that what it boils down to (other than finances) is a person’s value of animals. A wealthy person with the resources to care for a horse might not give two licks about it and therefore deprive the animal of proper care that’s quite attainable…they are certainly out there. On the other hand, you may have a person who cares deeply for animals but may not have the financial resources to provide costly emergency tx, colic surgery etc. and instead opts to PTS. I would much rather have that animal with the person with a lower economic status (granted they can afford routine care: dental, vet, farrier, in addition to food, water, shelter). Of course, the scariest owners are those who can’t provide and don’t care that they can’t provide so the animal suffers.

[x-halt-salute]

@longlanefarm, you’re preaching to the choir w.r.t. lower economic status not meaning someone can’t provide adequate care to an animal. Google “adjunct professor salary” if you want a sense of the financial means that drive my own decision making and inform my perspective.

But I didn’t mean that CotHers have higher standards than “the average bear” but that the standards here tend to be higher than the “food-water-shelter” that another poster has proposed is sufficient for humane horse ownership. My point wasn’t that people here have high standards, but that recommending vet care is not “holier than thou” “internet trolling”.

Believing that preventive care and pain management are part of responsible horse/animal ownership is not at all a function of socioeconomic status. By the same token, economic hardship doesn’t relieve a person of their obligations to animals, it just might change what it means in practice to satisfy those obligations (e.g. euth instead of intervention in an emergency).

[Belowthesalt]

Nine years ago it cost me about $400 for euthanasia and disposal. Horse was not colicing, Debilitated by age, lymphoma, not thriving, then stopped eating. That’s when I made the decision. He was still mobile and not in acute pain, but it was clear he was failing. He was 24. This was in California, 2010. Probably costs more now.

[dani0303]

I can afford routine (vaccines, dental, coggins) and “normal” emergencies (stitches, tubing colics, etc). I cannot afford trips to the teaching hospitals and surgeries. Does that make me an unworthy animal owner? Once the bill reaches 4 figures a serious conversation is going to be had about whether or not the animal will be euthanized or not. I’m just an average, middle class young adult with a very modest savings that I’m not willing to tap out unless absolutely necessary.

[McGurk]

@dani0303 and @X-halt-salute,

I think our differences lie at the outer edges of this debate. @dani0303, I am exactly the same position as you. My horses get excellent regular farrier care, a well maintained pasture and run-in, routine vet care, routine worming, fly spray and Swat in summer, weight managed with grazing muzzles. Not show barn care, but excellent care. I would certainly be able to afford an emergency vet for a injury or wound and to respond to a colic with meds/GI tube.

None of them are a surgical colic case before of their ages (18, 19 and 20) and other factors, including my wallet. I might take them to the local vet’s clinic for emergency care, but I wouldn’t consider hauling them to a university hospital.

I think that they are healthy and happy. I certainly exceed the food/water/shelter requirement. However, on a thread here on COTH where I was debating trying to diagnose a NQR subtle unsoundness or just retiring a 20 year old horse, one poster told me that if I wasn’t willing to spend the money on full lameness workup, including rads and nerve blocks, I should just put him down. That’s the kind of internet standard of care many of us can’t afford to meet. (Not complaining, a lot of the advice I got on that thread was excellent, but still, there’s also that one poster - if you don’t do things exactly the way they (hypothetically) would; you’re a terrible horse owner.)

[Rackonteur]

@oldernewbie I tried to “like” your post but once again COTH isn’t letting me. So … I like your post.

[KBC]

likes @McGurk s post