No clue, I just purchased my new horse off a vent post on Facebook complaining about how much trainers want for unbroken 5-7 years old that are half feral.
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Also the baby horse won’t sue you if he trips slightly trotting said crossrail.
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It must be a regional thing. In the Ohio Amish community, they openly admit that the flashy horses are their idea of “bling” and their BIG auctions will go all night and sell horses well into the 5 figures, even for drafts. The amish in this area even take their friesians to the regional show. Yes, they do breed them to sell to the “english”, but they will also pay top dollar for their own breeding stock.
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Husband has been itching to get his own pony. I’ve been telling him that for a horse that he is looking for (“pretty, tall, schoolmaster with all the buttons that will take him to 1.20 and can tolerate him”) that’s the budget he is looking at here 
I think it all goes back to the training system. Many of not most of the trainers in NA that I’ve seen in my personal observation do not want you to be an independent rider, capable of developing your own horse and struggle to attain more real skill. Instead, they want you to be in a “program” and focus on lowering the bar to make you feel good about yourself and teach you helplessness around everything horse-related. They want you to go to shows even if you’re hardly jumping cross-rails and have no independent seat, buy the most expensive horse that has all the buttons already installed, charge for training rides and lessons, and make sure you don’t even know how to clip or plait a horse - because they can charge you for that too.
I’ve been begging my husband to spend half a year on the lunge with no reins or stirrups (which is what set the foundation in my riding), but it’s obviously not as interesting as riding the coach’s schoolmaster once a month that anyone can ride and pretending to be a competent rider .
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Lots of young, capable riders in Europe, anywhere from age 12 to mid-thirties. Many of the younger ones are still at school, because the schooling system actually gives young people a lot of free time. Building the right resume and straight As for going to the right college and getting a scholarship is generally not a consideration for elementary/high school students in continental Europe so many spend their evenings and weekends at the barn. You wouldn’t believe how good some of the junior riders are. The really good ones transition from pony to horse at around 12-14 and start straight away at 1.20-1.30m classes or PSG and often if not most times on horses that are not stepping down, but are in fact up and coming. It was extremely common for the barn owner or breeders to allocate the youngsters to the junior/young riders to start and they’d sometimes get a small commission when the horse sold. I think I started working with young horses around 12 and stallions around 15 when I was basically an afterschool exercise rider for a pro. It was mutually beneficial because you got to ride many different kinds of horses (3-5 horses a day - anywhere from unbroken stallions to GP jumpers), free coaching a few times a week and the pro/bo/owners generally had less patience/sense of humour/courage dealing with a rearing stallion or teaching a horse how to go on the lungeline.
The pro sales barns generally offered living on the farm and paid a minimum wage (if that) and some also commission for riding 5-10 horses a day. Generally, you don’t really need connections to get a job at one of those places, because they regularly scout both horses and riders. For example, I was offered to work at one of the big brand name stud farms in Germany when they visited the pro’s barn to look at some of the sales horses. I was 16, but I turned it down because I didn’t want to attend a remote/online high school. I have a friend who worked at one of those places in twenties and the pay was similarly small and turnover high. But for the most part you do it just to get that name on your resume and later build your own business. -
I suspect some of it has to do with the work permit situation (very easy to stay within EU). I know a few girls who come groom for the WEF each year (illegally), but that’s only for a few months. Staying longer given the stringent immigration laws even for skilled (but not olympic level) professionals is difficult. Also, riding is full of accidents and Europeans are terrified/appalled by the for-profit healthcare system that even having spent years here is extremely difficult to understand.
I also think beyond WEF in Europe there is a sentiment that American riding is just not as good and also more expensive. People in seller barns see how people ride, what questions they ask, and how they choose their horses. This is obviously hugely overgeneralized, but I’d say people from Asia, Middle East, and the US are often seen as dumb money that tends to overpay for what they’re getting. Hunters discipline for the most part is looked down upon, as this weird “beauty contest for horses that don’t have the scope to jump” [the big sticks] - quote from a European acquaintance. All these factors end up forming an impression that is generally unfavorable.
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It’s capitalism, simple as that. Just like US healthcare, private schools, grocery chains, Target, Walmart, and private higher ed, from little Oregon colleges to Harvard. Ugly, but all part of the American dream! Yuck.
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If you’re on the west coast or even in the western states, try The Plaid Horse Thermal classifieds group. Technically you’re not supposed to sell horses there, but people avoid getting flagged by using emojis, like a mid-fives horse would say mid 
That’s where I found my horse☺️
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Yes, this. And consider the cost of bringing along said “made” horse. If you breed one, raise it, train it, show it extensively, and get it kid-ready, you’ve probably got at least $50K++ into it and years of hard work. Hey, and don’t forget commissions. Doesn’t surprise me that somebody would ask 75K+ for this type.
Well out of my price range, but I get it.
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True.
But it’s a whole lot easier and cheaper to purchase liability insurance for the potential lawsuit from a lesson student (or be covered under the farm’s policy if working for someone else) than it is to purchase health insurance for the cost of a broken collar bone. Since most young horse riders are NOT going to be covered by their employer for health insurance, it seems a safer bet to go that route.
Until you get sued, which can still happen with insurance.
In theory employees should be covered by workmen’s comp. They are at my barn. Realize that’s more problematic if you’re working for yourself and have crappy heath coverage.
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Exactly. And it’s not so much a matter of if as when due to subrogation.
Side note: I just did a quote for a friend who is starting a business. His Workers Comp comes out to around $40 a month. And that’s for an industry with a rate of injury on par or potentially higher than riding. I’d like to beat all the BO’s that weasel their way out of buying WC over the head with a pool noodle.
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While I have no doubt there are more of those types of trainers than we should hope to have in the industry, and it’s crazy that there are now actually ground pole classes at A shows, I think this is also unfair to the many trainers that would be happy to teach you all of those things and have far more commendable motivations, and aren’t just blowing sunshine to give riders a false sense of accomplishment. Not every client wants to or has time to take on all of the things you list, and that can’t just be chalked up to laziness or the princess program, sometimes it is just the reality that the career that pays for the horses limits what people can do. Nor is there any reason someone should have to be able to bring along their own horse to have be able to enjoy riding or have a sense of accomplishment. If someone wants to buy the best trained horse they can find, so be it, that’s their choice. And it removes some uncertainty about what the horse will be/can do when it is “finished.” You never know what their personal considerations might be that affect that decision, and there are no bonus points for developing your own. Some people get a lot of satisfaction out of that process, and that’s great, but that’s a value judgment everyone has to make for themselves.
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One of the farriers I know breeds Dutch Harness horses and goes to a lot of the auctions. Yes, those horses are $$$. I was shocked that the Amish were spending that kind of money.
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Yes this, and It is much cheaper to start sport horses in Europe and to then to get show miles on them as youngins than here. In the US after you get them cowboy broke, the costs stack up quick.
ETA probably mentioned a million times upthread.
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At what age, is a horse or pony, no longer considered to be a ‘prospect’?
Has that age changed recently? Or?
I have never seen so many ads for teenaged or older horses/ponies advertised as ‘prospects’…
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Any horse at any age is a prospect for something it hasn’t done/been proven in. A 14 year old dressage horse just learning to jump is a hunter prospect.
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Typically, at 14 years old a dressage horse is marketed to be sold to a different discipline because it A. doesn’t have lead changes to proceed up the levels and or B. is not suitable temperament wise to be a ‘schoolmaster’.
Either of those two reasons would be strikes against being a good hunter prospect, besides the age being on the downswing…
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You didn’t ask whether a 14 year old dressage horse would be a suitable hunter. You asked why an older horse would be labeled a prospect. It could be switching disciplines, that’s why.
Also dressage changes are totally different than hunter changes. Plenty of horses flunk out of dressage between 2nd/3rd level when the counter canter/changes start coming in and are fine as hunters. The change doesn’t NEED to be as clean and united for hunter purposes as it does for upper level dressage. Not to mention that a horse that can land the leads doesn’t need perfect changes.
Some horses also flunk out of dressage because they don’t care for the lifestyle/drilling that can sometimes be the program for upper level dressage. And sometimes horses change careers despite being fine at a prior career, the owner might move to an area where there aren’t good trainers doing the old discipline or it just happens that the person selling the horse tries it in a different discipline to see how it does.
Also saying a horse is a prospect for the hunters isn’t claiming it’s a “schoolmaster.” Your original question said nothing about a horse being a “schoolmaster.”
Here is your question…
The word “schoolmaster” appears nowhere.
There’s nothing wrong with someone advertising an older horse switching disciplines as a “prospect” for the new discipline. I know, you want to take fault with other people’s ads and you’re looking for an excuse to do so. This one is a real stretch.
What is with you and criticizing other people? Just noting a trends in the past 3-4 threads where I’ve noticed your participating, you seem to love nit picking and speculating about other people (griping about other people’s sale ads mutliple times, starting that whole drama with the DHH seller, the thread bitching about someone using ear buds in a helmet, your thread that revealed you keep track somehow of people who have been horse shopping for a long time). You’re in everyone else’s business all the time. What’s up with that? Let other people be. Being a gossip isn’t a good look. It also reminds me a TON of one of the old posters on this forum before the format changed. The one you claim not to be. She was alllll about the gossip too.
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I actually tried one not young dressage horse that would have made a great eq horse. He had been doing 4th level so had changes. Probably would not have gone much higher and owner was switching to a different breed focus. So they had some jumping and eventing people out to evaluate some of their WBs. Owner did have a hard time swallowing the “prospect” price tag she would need to put on the horse for hunter/eq after the investment to get him to 4th level. And that was before the market was nuts. Probably now the same type of horse would be listed at twice what he was at that time.
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I rode for a few years at an eventing/dressage barns and most of those amateur dressage horse could have stepped into the hunter ring with a little polish. They were all very correctly broke and used to going off property to show.
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