[QUOTE=Caol Ila;8418871]
Indeed. Isn’t it a bit like being an average marathon runner (anyone who can get through one and not fall over five miles into it, like I would do) and looking at the people who win marathons, and saying, “If that’s what it takes to win a marathon, what’s the bloody point?”[/QUOTE]
Well, to be perfectly honest, that’s how I’ve always felt about marathons. 
The only valid comparison to be made between marathon running and horse sports would be racing. The similarities are obvious, and both sports have led to the development of superior performers. Dressage on the other hand requires a lot more than being able run a long way quickly. It also leaves room for different “styles”.
Not exactlty Gal’s MO. It’s his thing to exaggerate leg movement, and it is apparent in any horse he has trained.
EG’s position is an interesting topic. My trainer has pointed out that EG’s rounded/slumped shoulders, and legs that are often in front of his hips with toes out, are not things to emulate.
[QUOTE=Mardi;8419387]
EG’s position is an interesting topic. My trainer has pointed out that EG’s rounded/slumped shoulders, and legs that are often in front of his hips, are not things to emulate.[/QUOTE]
Those things–if in fact that’s EG’s position–, although much more exaggerated, are also the positions of the Big Lick TWH riders and quite a few professional Saddlebred riders.
[QUOTE=Mardi;8419387]
EG’s position is an interesting topic. My trainer has pointed out that EG’s rounded/slumped shoulders, and legs that are often in front of his hips, are not things to emulate.[/QUOTE]
EG’s human and even if his position was far from being perfect, I believe it is important to understand why/how it works so well.
My trainer often tells me to use my legs wherever it is needed, where it will be understood. Position is one thing, being restrained is another.
My mare has a huge engine behind, it is her front legs that were in the way at some point in her training. Putting pressure and giving cues closer to the front was very helpfull to unlock her front legs that were in the way! She was not on the forehand and her back was working fine but she would lock her shoulder/be stiff right in front of the saddle. She would go ‘‘up’’ and round more and more and more… now she goes and reach out more.
As for the rounded shoulders, it usually goes hand in hand with a desire to lighten the seat/ and giving with the hands. I’ve seen it a lot in riders who train young horses, which Edward does a lot.
Your trainer must not know Etienne Beudant or Jean D’Orgeix. Their vision of riders’ position is in direct line to what Edward Gal is doing. Jean D’Orgeix goes even a little more extreme (he’s more of a jumper).
Marcus Ehning, who’s one of the most successfull jumper in the world, also has a more ‘‘chair’’ position.
What you need to find is Your position and how you can be a positive influence.
If your textbook position is hindering the horse’s movement, what’s the point?
[QUOTE=vineyridge;8419398]
Those things–if in fact that’s EG’s position–, although much more exaggerated, are also the positions of the Big Lick TWH riders and quite a few professional Saddlebred riders.[/QUOTE]
What the flucke
There is NO comparison to be made between Ed Gal’s riding/training and those BigLick…
EG is riding in a really traditional position.
Would you compare Nuno to the Big Lick guys? His hunched back is the worst ever.
No kidding! What the fluke indeed! There are few riders in the WORLD that are as effective, light, effective, harmonious, effective (have I mentioned effective)? Wow, I am amazed at some of what I see on this BB…
Poor Edward, he struggles so.
Amen MysticOakRanch. The idiocy level on this forum seems to have hit an all time high, and that’s really saying something!
[QUOTE=alibi_18;8419482]
What the flucke
There is NO comparison to be made between Ed Gal’s riding/training and those BigLick…
EG is riding in a really traditional position.
Would you compare Nuno to the Big Lick guys? His hunched back is the worst ever.
What about Philippe Karl? He has the same kind of suits…
Of course, we should all emulate Reiner Klime…[/QUOTE]
Actually, if Phillipe Karl’s shoulders in his photo were slumped about another 6 inches or so down, his position would not be far from a Big Lick walker or Saddlebred pro rider.
None of the other photos show rounded shoulders with a deep slump and a chair seat.
I’m not saying that EG rides that way because I’ve never noticed it in all the pictures and videos that I’ve seen of him, but if he did, there is a familial resemblance to what Big Lick and Saddlebred riders do to get their horses light in front for flashy foreleg action.
[QUOTE=vineyridge;8419592]
Actually, if Phillipe Karl’s shoulders in his photo were slumped about another 6 inches or so down, his position would not be far from a Big Lick walker or Saddlebred pro rider.[/QUOTE]
Clearly, you should educate your eyes and grasp some knowledge by reading and looking at pro riders.
None of the other photos show rounded shoulders with a deep slump and a chair seat.
Nuno is a master at rounded shoulders. They other ones did prone a chair seat in their teaching.
I’m not saying that EG rides that way because I’ve never noticed it in all the pictures and videos that I’ve seen of him, but if he did,
If he did, then what? You are talking about something you don’t know, you don’t understand.
there is a familial resemblance to what Big Lick and Saddlebred riders do to get their horses light in front for flashy foreleg action.
Of course that is a position to lighten up the back of the horse. They are horses and techniques can’t be biomechanicaly that far away BUT
What Big Lick does to get their horses perform flashy foreleg action is BARBARIC. Soring, chains, elastics bands, huge nasty bits…name it. They are the worse (sic) horseman in the whole freakin’ world.
IT’S DISGUSTING AND HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH DRESSAGE.
I’m sorry Vineyridge (I’m Canadian so I need to apologize for my poor behavior) but today I won’t let such crap to be said.
Off my computer to go riding to lighten up my mood.
[QUOTE=alibi_18;8419626]
Clearly, you should educate your eyes and grasp some knowledge by reading and looking at pro riders.
Nuno is a master at rounded shoulders. They other ones did prone a chair seat in their teaching.
If he did, then what? You are talking about something you don’t know, you don’t understand.
Of course that is a position to lighten up the back of the horse. They are horses and techniques can’t be biomechanicaly that far away BUT
What Big Lick does to get their horses perform flashy foreleg action is BARBARIC. Soring, chains, elastics bands, huge nasty bits…name it. They are the worse (sic) horseman in the whole freakin’ world.
IT’S DISGUSTING AND HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH DRESSAGE.
I’m sorry Vineyridge (I’m Canadian so I need to apologize for my poor behavior) but today I won’t let such crap to be said.
Off my computer to go riding to lighten up my mood.[/QUOTE]
I learned to ride in the deep South of America in the heartland of Saddlebreds and TWHs. You are Canadian. What do you know about them? How many shows have you been to with TWH and Saddlebred classes? What is your experience with Saddle Seat Equitation and the training of those breeds of horse? There are quite good horsemen in both breeds who are able to get high performance without cruelty. I’ve watched numerous pro riders in both breeds over the years, and I’ve known trainers in both breeds as well. Some were good and some were bad in terms of the gadgets and tricks used to add flash.
My point is simply that riders all across the spectrum may use the same or similar techniques to get the same or similar outcomes.
Don’t demonize something you know nothing about except what you read in the media.
duplicate post
I have a Tennessee walking horse. They were bred to have a nice gait that is comfortable over many miles. It is not flashy. I’ve gone to shows with my mare and most of my peers ride TWH barefoot. And practice an equal 4 beat gait. Anything more is man made and commonly done with pain. Those horses were never supposed to look like circus clowns. This is taking a horse beyond his physical and natural ability by artificial means. It’s disgusting.
I understand what someone is trying to say about “Big Lick Dressage”. How far is this going to go where dressage horses are trained by potentially artificial means?
Is there pain involved? Well Rollkur is one artificial painful training method. It has nothing to do with natural or physical capability. It has nothing to do with true collection.
Now why does one trainer/rider come out with these flamboyant leg moving horses that look brilliant ? ( There could be others.) How do we really know how much of that is breeding and how much of that is gotten by artificial means or even means that are not part of the training scale? Were Totilas and Zonic actually born this way? Was this “Big Lick” dressage movements in Totilas and Zonic developed by acceptable methods? Or by unacceptable harmful methods like big lick or Rollkur?
Edward Gal is simply the master of making the horses super through and super compressed on their hind legs and when they are naturally gifted horses the result is the expression that you see in his horses.
I read this article written by an Australian GP rider who has trained with many of the greats including EG this is what he has to say:
"Then Hubertus Schmidt. I loved the way he was a very good horseman and had a great system of training which was a good reflection of the classical system. Then Edward Gal who I thought was the best representative of the Dutch system. I felt that maybe Anky and Sjef developed the system but I loved the way Edward rode. He’s probably been my favourite rider since I met him in 2000. I like the way he gets the horses really balanced back on the hindlegs and uphill, really up in the wither. I think he can do that better than anybody. I like where Edward puts his body. He keeps back off their wither and lets them get in front of him.
All three of those riders share one common factor, that is they all ride with a very loose upper leg and they give horses freedom to really expand in the back and work up through the back. They’ve all got beautiful contact and nice steady hands. Of course Edward rides them rounder and Hubertus doesn’t ride them short and there a lots of different things like that, but they all have good contact and they all ride with a beautiful, soft upper leg and a lower leg that commands response. They’re the things I keep in the back of my mind when I watch those guys riding"
Edward Gal is simply the master of making the horses super through and super compressed on their hind legs and when they are naturally gifted horses the result is the expression that you see in his horses.
I read this article written by an Australian GP rider who has trained with many of the greats including EG this is what he has to say:
"Then Hubertus Schmidt. I loved the way he was a very good horseman and had a great system of training which was a good reflection of the classical system. Then Edward Gal who I thought was the best representative of the Dutch system. I felt that maybe Anky and Sjef developed the system but I loved the way Edward rode. He’s probably been my favourite rider since I met him in 2000. I like the way he gets the horses really balanced back on the hindlegs and uphill, really up in the wither. I think he can do that better than anybody. I like where Edward puts his body. He keeps back off their wither and lets them get in front of him.
All three of those riders share one common factor, that is they all ride with a very loose upper leg and they give horses freedom to really expand in the back and work up through the back. They’ve all got beautiful contact and nice steady hands. Of course Edward rides them rounder and Hubertus doesn’t ride them short and there a lots of different things like that, but they all have good contact and they all ride with a beautiful, soft upper leg and a lower leg that commands response. They’re the things I keep in the back of my mind when I watch those guys riding"
And from the same article: “Edward Gal is a master. You know, he trained Totilas, Steffen Peter’s horse, Ravel and me, that’s three horses in the top 10, which is amazing. I just love Edward as a person and a rider. Essentially he gets the horses to go with such a freedom uphill, but he contains it. There’s criticism there too; maybe he could get them to travel a little bit more forward in the extended trot and the like, but no-one can ride the collected work like him.”
It’s quite astounding the amount of people that stand behind Edward Gal despite the common knowledge that he rides his horses in hyper flexion. With such a cruel, unnatural heard set it’s no wonder the his horses move so mechanically.
Regarding the discussion on whether breeding or training creates big moving dressage horses:
Steffen Peters was once asked how he gets his horses to move so extravagantly. His off-the-cuff reply: “I buy them that way.”
So let’s not forget that EG has the deepest pockets in the dressage world as his sponsor. They are actively seeking out huge moving young horses that show an ability to sit. And ideally black or dark bay young stallions.
By submitting your email, you agree to our Terms of Service and Privacy Policy. You may also receive promotional emails from The Chronicle of the Horse. You can opt out at any time.
For Customers
Company
Terms of Use
