Young horse and getting that consistent pace

[Samotis]

So I have a young horse I have raised that is in training and I have just started to take lessons on him.

He tends to be lazy, but luckily loves to jump.

I find my biggest issues with him is turning the corner to a jump and keeping him straight and forward around the turn.

He bulges out and when I put my leg he slows down, then I miss my distance to the jump.

My trainer is a jumper rider and has done wonders on him to make him stay forward, but I am a true hunter rider and have a different style.

I feel if I try to stay suttle I just can’t get it done!

Will it come with time? Is it just a young horse thing? I know pace will get better, I just wonder if there are exercises I can do to help us become more fluid on course.

[merrygoround]

There should not be that much of a difference in hunter and jumper “style”. I suspect you have not learned how to use your outside leg to prevent the bulging out, and still keep the leg on for forward. Another thought is that you are unconsciously going to your hand, which will destroy forward.

If your trainer is not into teaching, you may need to get help from an instructor.

[alliekat]

I would guess (without seeing a video) that your aid to your inside leg is stronger than your outside leg. Also make sure you are not giving away your outside rein. If your inside leg is strong and driving him into no or loss of outside contact,it will have him spilling out through his shoulder. You mentioned when you add leg he sucks back. I would work on his responsiveness to your aids while on the flat. I like to use a dressage whip for this. Ask once with leg, if he does not immediately respond as again with your aids and include a pop from the whip. He needs to stay in front of your leg at all times. It should help a lot. Good luck

[woodhillsmanhattan]

Stay positive! It WILL come with time. A lot of time :lol:

And correct repetition is key. It will take time for him to learn to come out of the corner and look for the jump (or land and look for the next jump). Many young horses don’t have a concept of consistent pace. Often losing pace through the corners especially. My idea on this is that they are constantly searching for another aid. So when you sit still and expect them to maintain their pace they think the lack of aid means to slow down, stop, or do whatever they want instead of what you want. (This probably isn’t the case for all green horses. Just my experience with the horses I have come across.)

Do as others have told you and focus on using your outside leg through the turns to keep him straight. Setting up courses with ground poles that has a lot of turns and bending lines and such will help you to really focus on maintaining him in that consistent rhythm. Canter poles on a circle would also be a good exercise. Depending on how green he is I wouldn’t throw “the circle of death” exercise at him just yet. But maybe modify it and have one or two poles along the track of a 20m or bigger circle.

One aspect in particular that you should take away from your jumper trainer is that you should always get the job done first. Don’t focus so much on “style” with the youngsters. First focus on forward and straight. Subtlety and that winning hunter style will come later as he learns the aids.

[equisusan]

Well sometimes trainers have more leg and stronger hands than us amateurs. I use a stronger bit than my trainer on my horse for this very reason. He can show him in a happy mouth but I need a slow twist. My trainer says my horse needs to respond to my level of pressure of aids. I had to inform my horse of this. Ha ha. I did this with a dressage whip. Ask for the canter… if delayed response then tap with the whip. Halt, reinback… ask for canter again… if delayed response then tap again with the whip. Repeat until horse operates on your aids. You are riding him now. This has to be fixed long before the approach to a jump. This is flatwork training. Gas and brakes must work on the car before you head down the hill.

[Samotis]

Well, see I broke him as a two year old. Then I hurt my back and he did nothing at 3 and then I started him back up summer last year at 4.

He has always been lazy and I totally blame myself for not making him more reactive to my leg. Now a squeeze means nothing to him.

He is getting better but he still hates moving off your leg.

It’s hard to really be on it all the time with him which is what I have to do. If he doesn’t move when I ask I need to react, sometimes I just plead and like I have learned it goes no where!

I am confident we will get better and like some have said, my legs are no where near as strong as my trainers, he is a foot taller then me and much stronger!!!

There have been moments of brilliance, like a few months ago where he loped a 3 foot course on a loopy rein and could have won anywhere, but those are not the norm at the moment.

He has the ability, it’s just putting all the pieces together. I also feel he has grown a lot this year which has made him a tad less balanced with the lead change and staying consistent. So e days the lead change is great, other times he has one leg in every direction!!!

I love him and am so excited to see him excel, I just have a lot of work to do!!

Thanks for the tips.

[jaysjmpr]

Canter pace

I have an exercise I have my kids do that helps bulging and pace. Set a large circle and place a standard at each side. I step 40 feet from the middle and put one standard then 40 feet the other way from the center. I have the kids canter around the standards trying to do the same number of canter step on each side. Sounds confusing just thnk of putting a standard at noon and 6 on a clock.

I use standards instead of cones, it seems easier for them to see around the circle. It also helps them not to allow the horse to bulge in the turn.

[Samotis]

I will try that!

It’s hard with him because he picks and chooses where he will bulge. I try to think ahead and add leg and turn early, then he is fine, or I can wait my turn, put my leg and he slows down and moves further out.

Drives me batty! He doesn’t focus unless he sees the jump! Straight is fine, turning is always inconsistent.

He knows how to turn and move off my leg, he just evades me half the time.

It is getting better, I just need to get more persistent.

[Kato]

I think another poster mentioned this already, but with a young/green one, you have to first get the job done, and second (a very distant second, some days) you worry about how smooth, polished and subtle it is. So just think “get it done” and you probably will! You can be smooth later when he has more miles.

[ladyfreckles]

[QUOTE=Samotis;7133302]
Well, see I broke him as a two year old. Then I hurt my back and he did nothing at 3 and then I started him back up summer last year at 4.

He has always been lazy and I totally blame myself for not making him more reactive to my leg. Now a squeeze means nothing to him.

He is getting better but he still hates moving off your leg.

It’s hard to really be on it all the time with him which is what I have to do. If he doesn’t move when I ask I need to react, sometimes I just plead and like I have learned it goes no where!

I am confident we will get better and like some have said, my legs are no where near as strong as my trainers, he is a foot taller then me and much stronger!!!

There have been moments of brilliance, like a few months ago where he loped a 3 foot course on a loopy rein and could have won anywhere, but those are not the norm at the moment.

He has the ability, it’s just putting all the pieces together. I also feel he has grown a lot this year which has made him a tad less balanced with the lead change and staying consistent. So e days the lead change is great, other times he has one leg in every direction!!!

I love him and am so excited to see him excel, I just have a lot of work to do!!

Thanks for the tips.[/QUOTE]

Horses don’t naturally respond to leg, it must be taught. Their instinct is to push against pressure, so for a horse that’s still very green a lot of things will be done through rein aids. Perhaps your trainer is strong enough to move him over in the moment, but if he’s using a lot of that strength and you don’t have it, it doesn’t help you or the horse. IMO it’s not good to force it with lots of pressure so the horse NEEDS tons of pressure to actually move. One needs to encourage lightness as much as possible to avoid getting a horse dead to the aids.

Doing turns on the forehand would help. I find that slowing something down can make it easier for both you and the horse to reach an understanding. Getting suppleness and responsiveness during a turn on the forehand would help a lot with keeping that responsiveness during the ride. Then move on to moving off the leg while walking. Breaking it down like this can help you see where exactly he starts to become unresponsive and where the problem might be in your riding.

It doesn’t sound like an issue of balance to me (though it very well could be, greenies go through many awkward growth phases) because you describe it as him hating moving off the leg in “general” rather than moving off the leg on specific leads. Breaking it down will help find where the problem is. Hopefully someone more experienced than I will come in with more advice. Some horses are just lazy, but others may genuinely not understand what you mean by the leg. My first instinct is to make sure they understand your leg to begin with.

[Go_Fish]

@Samotis;7131205

I find my biggest issues with him is turning the corner to a jump and keeping him straight and forward around the turn.

He bulges out and when I put my leg he slows down, then I miss my distance to the jump.

Your correction needs to be at the ends of the arena, not when you turn the corner to the next jump. The ends of the arena is where your opportunity is to get your horse between your leg, re-establish your pace and make any adjustments to the horse’s straightness. Inside bend around the end, then outside leg and rein when you turn the corner to head down to the next jump. If you only keep your inside rein and inside leg on when you turn the corner to the jump, you are essentially asking your horse to circle.

It was a hard concept for me to learn after riding western for a lot of years. Timing is everything.

[vxf111]

If he won’t move off your leg, that is the problem and not really the pace to the jump. You need to re-install that aid so when you ask, he responds. Period.

As a general matter, I find on horses that lose it through the turn it really helps me to think press FORWARD one stride and then STEADY one stride right through the corner. Not really quicken the pace but get just slightly more forward and then come back rather than coming out laggy and trying to move up close to the fence. In other words, use the corner to get slightly above the rhythm so you can settle in. I find that helps.

[fordtraktor]

One useful exercise can be the bounce pole…5-6 poles on the ground 9’ apart each. They tend to teach regulation in the canter as well as engagement. I keep them set up in the ring for a month or two per season and canter through several times a ride…they need to stay exactly the same all the way through. Great exercise especially for the very hyper and the very lazy (I have both extremes).

[Samotis]

It’s funny because his mother I was always trying to slow down. Her son I am always trying to get to go!!!

All good advice. I will put some bounce poles down!

[goodmorning]

Yes go forward & actively ride through the turn. Perhaps super shorty can elaborate as her trainers method of this is fabulous :yes: