I’m an aspring young rider who wants to eventually ride and teach professionally, in eventing, as well as have a small breeding operation for Section D Welsh Cobs. I’ve done the usual working student jobs, taken a semester of Equine Studies at a local college and decided school isn’t the route for me, but continue to take business management courses at a local college in addition to working locally at a humane society. I know I want to get out of New England and re-locate to North Carolina(much better year-round climate for riding/etc), and have competition goals of competing up to preliminary in eventing, but really want to have a small breeding operation as I like working with young horses and seeing them progress. Ultimately, my dream farm would be on a small acreage with 3 or 4 stall training barn and turnout with run-in sheds for the majority of the horses on-site, with the focus being on breeding but also a bit of teaching and training on the side. What would be the best avenue to get to my goal? Is a breeding farm still a viable field to go into? Any suggestions would be appreciated, positive or negative, and any stories of how you got your breeding operation started? (regardless of breed) Thanks in advance!
You will have to make money somewhere else to finance an endeavour that small. Make yourself a business plan and project income and expenses. I don’t think your plan will stand on it’s own.
I think the best way to achieve the above would be to look for a job in an occupation that will allow you to afford a breeding / training / riding operation.
Small scale breeding and training are not money makers. I think it is very hard to have such an operation actually pay for itself.
This is what I do. After college, I bought a small farm and started a business. It is definitely hard, but it can be done. I teach, train, and breed. Most of my money comes from teaching, so that is what I try to do the most of. It helps to have a lesson horse. In my experience, breeding is not a money maker at all, more like a money pit. It is really just my expensive hobby!
The first step in starting any business is a passion. The second step is a business plan.
Use your education with horses to help develop your structure, pick the things you love, and make sure you think about the big picture. When I say big picture, I am talking about supply vs demand and how you can make an impact on the breeding and sport industry in this country. My philosophy is to start small and let your business grow on it’s own. Follow it’s growth, manage it’s growth, and nurture your dream. Don’t push things too fast, build your reputation based on your integrity, honesty and the desire to make a difference.
When breeding, u start with the best you can get (broodmares), make sure you understand the meaning of multiplication(breeding #'s increase) when looking at the amount of land you may need, for those you don’t sell early be prepared to keep them for a few years, make sound stallion choices and pay attention to what people want.
I could go into so many details on what it takes, from the land management to the development of the horse that I would be here all day! I would suggest you visit some of these breeding farms and get a feel for what it takes regardless of small operation or large operation. I can help you with a road trip plan and you’re certainly welcome to come visit us.
Just remember to use your heart and your head! Look at the market and make decisions based on who needs what, and what you can do to make a difference.
Cheers:)
I started breeding Irish Draught Horses in 2000 as a 45yo single woman. I made about 50K/year from my job as a Blood Banker. The first horse was a yearling filly imported from Ireland (12K). I kept her in pasture board and she probably cost 200 to 300/month. She was bred when she was 4 to foal at 5.
The filly was septic…14K in vet costs and she was not saleable as a riding horse…but I had my 2nd broodmare candidate. Purchased a stallion candidate…to hard to keep a stallion and board…gelded stallion candidate…on a presale had 3 chips…never lame…could only sell very cheaply…kept to be school horse.
The first mare foaled a colt at 6. Bought 12 acre farm. Built very good facility for a one person breeding farm. Bought Section D Welsh yearling filly. Colt was sold for over 10K as a 4yo started(I paid to have him started) great home very proud of his accomplishments.
The filly had her first foal…septic but with joint ill…was euthanized as a yearling(>14K).
Purchased 3 RID mares for 14K 1st breeding year with 5 mares…only one got in foal…that was the joint ill filly. One foal for last year…super filly sold right away for 7K. Sent Welsh Cob out to be started, sold at 4 for ~9K. Bought approved stallion…he was very ill… then dies of something else before we could use him. Will have one or 2 foals this summer.
Purchasing new approved stallion, comes with an old broodmare. NOW if I am really unlucky I will get all 6 mares in foal and have more than I can care for. Breeding is a very interesting thing to do. But the big struggle is to lose as little money as possible.
I am a very experienced horse person and if you write it down like this it looks like a train wreck but I have actually accomplished quite a lot, I can say my horses are well cared for and they make great performance horses and there is a demand for them. In the 12 years I have been breeding 70% if not more of the people breeding at that time no longer do it. There were a LOT of cob breeders in the US then and their gone for the most part.
Unless you are inheriting money it will be a struggle. First you have so much to learn. You have to learn to be a instructor, you have to learn how to run a business, you have to learn to train horses efficiently and safely, Learn how to manage a show and to compete effectively…so much.
I would suggest you buy 2 nice young horses 3 yos. Develop and sell them. When one is sold buy a 2yo to replace him. The concentrate on the remaining 3YO make him even better. When he sells buy another 3yo and work on him. The goal is to have 2 yearlings, 2 2 yos, 2 3yo and 1 4yo. developing them replacing them as they are sold. If you can manage the increasing number of horses THEN you might be able to add a broodmare or more and produce your own stock. The work to keep 5 or 6 youngsters in great shape and ready to be seen at any time will be fun to you. I can tell you it will be cheaper to buy the youngstock than to raise them. Good Luck. PatO
You’re starting on the right foot with Welsh Cobs. 
We have a wonderful retired eventer broodmare who is a Section D Welsh Cob. The only warning…they are an acquired taste. They definitely are not as main stream in eventing as the Thoroughbred.
Find a position with a trainer that you respect who competes in your discipline. You will learn alot as well as meet alot of folks. And then lots and lots of hard work!!!
Get a partnership with a breeder. Breeders always need help riding/training/and competing young horses and ponies affordably. You could breed on a small scale yourself.
OP, you cannot do better than taking the help and advice offered here. If you are serious about your plans you need to contact Hyperion Stud, then go there and learn everything you can. Seriously. :yes:
[QUOTE=columbus;6158051]
The filly was septic…14K in vet costs and she was not saleable as a riding horse…[/QUOTE]
This may not be a popular opinion on the COTH breeding fourm so I am going to put on my flame retardant underwear. :winkgrin:
And Pat, I do not mean to single you out, but the sentiments you expressed in your post seem to be common amongst a lot of the breeders on here.
People come on here and give an example of a bad case ($14K in vet costs and an unridable horse at the end of it) and use it as an example of why you can not be profitable as a breeding business. When in fact the reason you were not profitable is because you made a bad business decision.
Why breeders pour more money into a foal in the form of vet fees than that foal is ever going to be worth is beyond me. As soon as the vet fees get to the point where they are going to put you in a loss position, you should stop. If that foal is not going to be worth more than the vet fees, it should be euthanized. That would be a sound business decision. No other business would continue to put money into something that had no hope of making a profit.
But most people do not treat breeding in a business like manner. And that is ok, just do not expect it to make you a profit. And don’t tell people that a profit from breeding is unlikely. Because if you approach breeding as a business and make sound unemotional business decisions, you can make a profit.
I’ve been breeding for over 25 years. That is only possible because I had another long career in the financial world to start and support this business. As it is right now - starting a breeding business would be like pushing a wagon up hill. It’s a tight market and the probability of it improving over the next few years is nil.
My advice to you is what others have mentioned. Work for a breeding farm or with a trainer - SAVE YOUR MONEY. You will need it. Breeding is a business that has a lot of ups and even more downs and unless you have your own facility for not just breeding but also starting the youngsters - it will empty your pockets very quickly.
Better to have a good career and breed as a hobby. How are you going to afford health insurance? Buy a home? Do you want to raise a family as well? School may not be for you but you may well regret that later in life. If you have a trust fund then that’s different. Or, marry well. I make 90k as a nurse and can just afford to have one riding horse, one broodmare, one five acre farmette and my daughter. I have rarely made any money on my horses.
[QUOTE=hluing;6158390]
Get a partnership with a breeder. Breeders always need help riding/training/and competing young horses and ponies affordably. You could breed on a small scale yourself.[/QUOTE]
This is sound advice. Your own breeding can begin as an emanation of your partner’s. You can work this into a win-win situation for all- partner, yourself, and the horses.
Have to echo what others have said.
I do not know one single person who is supporting themselves entirely on proceeds from breeding. Everyone – including stallion owners – either has a good paying job, or a spouse with a good paying job, or they are living on inherited wealth.
Yeah, you can sometimes do a bit better if you are boarding/training, etc., but those endeavors rarely bring in enough money to allow you to buy your own farm - which you will need if you are breeding.
Nothing burns through money like a horse. Mr. DY refers describes them as “a financial black hole.” :lol:
Thanks everyone for your advice. @Callaway, would like to hear more about your operation and basic statistics and how successful you think it’s been for you. Also thanks to Hyperion Stud, would love to schedule a trip down and see your operation. I don’t come from a lot of “old money” so would inherit some but would have to fund the majority of my start-up by myself, so I think it would be best to apprentice/work under a breeder for a few years to not only achieve my competition goals but also get a better idea of the breeding industry. Does anyone know of a respected Section D Welsh Cob breeder on the East coast who would be open to taking on an apprentice/rider? And thanks again for all the feedback. OP
Ravencrest I agree absolutely. I chalked it up to learning. However, I found it was very hard to get veterinarians and foaling barn experts to say what they would do or more importantly…couldn’t do. After the fact they all say …well they didn’t get to try to save foals like her very often. I will get the value from the first septic foal in the foals she has. I have learned alot in the first 10 years to benefit the next 10(I hope)years. I find it very interesting and have the money to lose without causing hardship to the horses. PatO
I’ll throw in my experience, FWIW:
OP - I was a lot like you. I however had HUGE support from my parents initally, and they are the ones that funded the construction of my barn. Without them, I would not have been able to do what I have.
I started small-scale - boarding and lessons and a little training. I am an experienced Event and Dressage rider, but not considered “Big Name” by any means. I advertised the living heck out of my business (and still do to some extent) with the help of flyers, internet ads, posting on those websites for people looking for lessons, etc. Once I had a couple of boarders and a few students, I went looking for my first broodmare. Again - I got lucky because the lady I bought my first broodie from has turned into my mentor as far as breeding. My first foal hit the ground in 2005 and I decided I was only going to breed every other year initially because I wanted to see how the kids were going to be received when they got older and started entering the show ring. And all along the way I was building the breeding and lesson program and keeping the breeding in the “background.”
Fast-forward to today: That 2005 colt (bought a year earlier) made his Dressage debut last year at Training Level/First Level and finished the season in 14th for the USDF Year-end awards for Hanoverians. Colt #2 was just purchased by a woman last fall to do Hunters. Colt #3 was sold to another lady who wants to train him in Dressage. And my first filly - #4 will eventually join my broodmare band.
It’s only now - 10 years after I opened my farm, that I am looking to expand my broodmare list to two mares. Why the slow-going and waiting you might ask? Because I wanted to a) learn everything that I could about the ins and outs of breeding, and b) I wanted to see exactly what my kids were going to be able to offer and what their strengths and weaknesses were AS ADULTS before I started going any faster. In other words - I WANT TO BREED QUALITY, NOT QUANTITY. And now that I feel like I know what I’m doing, I’ll go ahead and take the leap and amp things up a little bit. So if you’re thinking that breeding is going to be an easier way of making money than say teaching, boarding or training, you’re off base. You need the other things to help it get going. And yeah - I would like my breeding program to take some of the stress off of relying on boarders and students and hopefully in the next year or two it will. But I also know that breeding alone will not be bread and butter.
And remember - getting a GOOD breeding program off the ground takes a lot of time (and money!) Stud fees, vet costs, and keeping mom and kid in hay and grain - it all adds up. And most of those kids don’t really sell until they’re grown up and have some training. When you see those ads for in-utero foals for sale…do you know how often an in-utero foal actually gets sold? Not often!
The other advice I have is take the youngins’ to in-hand classes at Dressage or Hunter shows because it can do a couple of things for you: Get yourself and your breeding program out there and exposed and also because it’s fabulous experience for the foals and there are usually great photographers. Buy those pics! They will help you sell your offspring.
Find a knowledgeable and reputable breeder that can mentor you along the way - it’s so important.
Spend the money on quality broodmares and stud fees. It pays in the end.
Don’t breed exclusively - teach, train, board, etc. You will need it.
And for anyone on this board who may poo-poo anyone trying to make a go of a breeding/horse business, there are plenty of others who are out there every day doing it! It’s just that we’re the ones not posting :lol:
OP: Check out Quilane Welsh Cobs on the East coast. They seem to be doing well. Maybe they can give you some good advice.
Perhaps I missed something in your original post but I don’t see anything about your actual experience in breeding or working with foals/young stock. That’s the experience I would focus on, day to day management of a stud, how-when-what to insemination/collection etc, being present at foalings, doing the early handling of foals, getting them ready to show on the line, etc.
Perhaps working with a vet clinic, or apprenticing to a local breeder even if they are focused on a different breed or discipline might provide the experience needed to successfully navigate running your own breeding business.
I do commend you for taking business courses, don’t want you to think I am putting you down at all.
I have seen quite a few VERY accomplished riders/trainers think they can just take up breeding with no prior hands on experience- it’s just not a wise idea until you become as expert on the veterinary aspects and your breed of choice as you are expert in your primary riding discipline.
Think about how much time it took for you to acquire the riding skills and equine management experience, and then prepare to spend nearly as much if not more time preparing to be a successful breeder.
