Young Woman Killed by Pit Bulls

[skyon]

It is the most recent update as of today. I’m done with looking up that story. The family of the girl gave the sheriff and the medical examiner permission to be specific about what was found due to so much debate on social media.

I didn’t interpret it as this being the dad’s fault. She is a 22 yr old adult who took on these two dogs and then for some reason has to bring them to him for housing in a kennel. There was no mention of neglect in regards to food, but in regards to attention.

The sheriff also said a friend came forward and said the dogs were from a rescue that rehomed fighting dogs. If that is true… More will probably evolve on where the dogs came from, but at the heart of it, it seems a number of people underestimated the whole situation.

[red_mares]

The friend who kept saying it couldn’t have been the (fighting?) dogs is an idiot who needs to be muzzled.

Looking at the pictures of the dogs involved, there should be no question that they are pit bulls. What is truly disturbing is that there a people who think that the dogs should not have been euthanized. Many of the save the dog comments sound like they were written by people who need some serious meds. Their grip on reality seems tenous at best.

http://wtvr.com/2017/12/18/press-con…uling-by-dogs/

http://www.richmond.com/news/local/c…ce21a38ad.html

The vet who didn’t think this could happen sounds like someone I wouldn’t want treating my animals. There’s a pretty long history of rescue pits killing. She sounds…delusional.

http://ktla.com/2017/12/16/vet-belie…-their-owners/

If this gal was as experienced and smart about dogs & dog training, why would she put 2 dogs with aggression in a situation with little human contact? They were apparently aggressive, but it was dismissed as ‘protective’. This is someone who claimed to be smart about dogs.

[GoodTimes]

That poor family. However, the additional details don’t surprise me at all.

[skyon]

I am not a fan of pitbulls…shocking, I know. I think it could have happened with many types of dogs, especially any with the power to take down someone combined with the aggressiveness bred into them for lots of things.

Anyone around livestock usually has stories about dog packs being the most nasty and aggressive if one makes a kill, in that they will tear apart anything in a frenzy.

Google “bull baiting”. It’s not just “live stock management” . Dogs with those traits are going to be tough and aggressive. Those dogs aren’t meant to live in apartments or day-long in kennels. They were bred for a specific job and if there are no bulls around, then why does someone want the trait?

Sorry. I also don’t think dogs are innocent little angels and it’s all because the humans bred them, that they do bad things. That is part of a growing problem and you can see it in the responses to keep the dogs alive no matter what. That may be what got this girl into this situation… Dogs are not just little clean slates that do things all because a human was bad.

I will say that what seemed annoying when the story first broke was the defense that fighting dogs will be less likely to attack humans. No mention that fighting dogs do not give signs of an impending attack. That is a real problem with pitbulls and the one that keeps coming up after the fact. The dog was wagging its tail, all about giving kisses, never growled and then Bam.

[GoodTimes]

@CanadianTrotter

She may have had experience for a 22 year old, that is still not a lot of experience. Nobody with proper experience would leave two dogs unattended for two days a week.

The father said the dogs were guarding the body protectively, people will romanticize this behaviour thinking her dogs were loyal and loved her…they were most likely guarding their food source.

The vet is most likely correct that there was a reason/provocation for the attack because there’s a reason behind the majority of actions. That doesn’t erase the fact that if this young woman had been walking any other breed of dog that she would still be alive. Physically and mentally pit bulls/pit bull crosses are literal killing machines when enabled.

That first article in @red mares post said that the dogs turned around to eat from her ribcage. It was so gruesome they left that out of the initial reports, but after all the speculation decided they needed to tell the public.
Definitely guarding their food source, the same way any wild animal would do.

[luvmyhackney]

Here is the article that made me throw up in my mouth. That poor girl. I just can’t imagine.
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2017/12/19/deputies-watched-dogs-eating-ribcage-virginia-woman-22-during-mauling-sheriff-says.html

[red_mares]

@CanadianTrotter

She may have had experience for a 22 year old, that is still not a lot of experience. Nobody with proper experience would leave two dogs unattended for two days a week.

I don’t disagree with this. However, one frequently hears that pibbles should not be owned by ‘inexperienced owners.’ Defining what constitutes an ‘inexperienced’ or ‘experienced’ owner is a lot like defining the difference between a beginning and intermediate rider.

On the surface, it’s not unreasonable to say this woman was qualified to own a pit. She was a dog trainer & probably grew up with dogs. I don’t think she did a good job managing these dogs (unless she was working for the local dog fighting ring), but on paper she appears ‘qualified’.

OTH, like the horse world, dog people (& especially rescue dog people) tend to be more qualified in their own minds than they are in reality.

Those who are selling aggressive rescue pits don’t seem to care who gets them. Pit bull fanatics bill them as family nanny dogs. Many gov’t animal control organizations are populated with ‘save them all’ rescue types. So who weeds out the qualified from the unqualified other than Darwin or Darwin’s innocent neighbor?

[ASBJumper]

@CanadianTrotter

Any dog can attack and cause damage for a host of reasons, few breeds are dangerous enough to continue an out of control and sustained attack.

Have to agree here. If there were deadly attacks on humans perpetrated by Danes, Greyhounds, St Bernards, etc happening on a regular basis, we would absolutely be hearing about it. I do not believe for one second that the media is only sensationalizing Pit or Mastiff-like attacks, no freaking way. A deadly dog attack is big news. Yet we almost never hear about those other large, powerful breeds attacking and killing humans.

I’ve personaly witnessed a couple of fear-bite attacks by large-ish dogs, one was a family chow who bit my cousin when he tripped in the backyard and stumbled close to her, accidentally stepping on her tail. But that’s just it - it was a fear bite, but that was it. She bit him, then immediately let go and backed off.

Who freaking cares if “any breed/type of dog” is capable of biting? What makes me and so many others shudder is the capability of pittbulls and presas and mastiffs of biting/shredding and not.letting.up until the victim is dead. :no::eek:

I can handle the risk of a dog biting me, just like i can handle the risk of a horse biting me. But I will never stop being leery of large terrier-type dogs and guarding dogs, ever. No amount of cute photos of them licking babies or kittens on Facebook will ever change my attitude towards them. I believe they should be reserved for strong, experienced owners with no small children and a large property. And yes, they should be muzzled in public. Always.

[khall]

CT I quote: “That doesn’t erase the fact that if this young woman had been walking any other breed of dog that she would still be alive. Physically and mentally pit bulls/pit bull crosses are literal killing machines when enabled.”
Good grief your extreme rhetoric is just ridiculous. Give it a rest.

skyon you are drinking the cool aide there honey. ALL dogs who are aggressive or will bite are going to show “tells” if you know what to look for. Some are more subtle than others and yes it does require one to be pretty dang dog savvy to see the more subtle signs.

[skyon]

Passed on the koolaid many, many years ago. I realized I had, ironically, when a fat brindle pit bull pup was being offered about for adoption from a 19-21 yr old because they had taken it in, to save it.

[shayaalliard]

@jse

Either way - I just think it’s rather disturbing to think about our pets turning on us. I own 2 Great Danes and the thought just gives me chills. Do I think they would ever turn on me? Probably not. But there is always a question! My dogs are truly 170lbs and 126lbs…they could hurt us in a heart beat!

I think NBC12 has the entire press conference on video!

I jumped in the middle of a dog fight between a foster Dane and a Pug- I didn’t think, I just reacted. Pug’s entire head was in the Dane’s mouth, dangling off the ground. I slapped the Dane on the back of the head and hollered, he spat out the pug and cowered down to me. Occurred to me later that wasn’t the smartest thing to do, but that’s a Dane- big but not dominant like a lot of the fighting breeds tend to be.

I have handled actual active fighting dogs- they, on the whole, did not scare me. They would come in with logging chains for collars all scarred up and beg for cookies. I also had a badly bred and badly trained backyard pit bull on a leash held by his (i believe high) shirtless shoeless owner come over the counter at me. He lunged for my face and he meant to hurt me.

I’ve held a friends sweet sweet pittie while she was PTS for unpredictable aggression- she attacked a cat in the home, which was the last straw. She had previously bitten my father- I watched her, and she snuck up behind him SILENTLY and grabbed him from behind. He was wearing gloves and she came back when I hollered, so no real harm, but she was dangerous. She was sweet and loving and great with kids, and she was dangerous. Now she sleeps.

I think of Pitties like stallions. They can be GREAT- but they have to be handled correctly 100% of the time, because the potential for harm is so much greater. Most dog owners should not have one. I could have one and never have a problem- but I don;t want to work that hard- dogs are supposed to be fun.

[Gestalt]

@ASBJumper

Have to agree here. If there were deadly attacks on humans perpetrated by Danes, Greyhounds, St Bernards, etc happening on a regular basis, we would absolutely be hearing about it. I do not believe for one second that the media is only sensationalizing Pit or Mastiff-like attacks, no freaking way. A deadly dog attack is big news. Yet we almost never hear about those other large, powerful breeds attacking and killing humans.

I’ve personaly witnessed a couple of fear-bite attacks by large-ish dogs, one was a family chow who bit my cousin when he tripped in the backyard and stumbled close to her, accidentally stepping on her tail. But that’s just it - it was a fear bite, but that was it. She bit him, then immediately let go and backed off.

Who freaking cares if “any breed/type of dog” is capable of biting? What makes me and so many others shudder is the capability of pittbulls and presas and mastiffs of biting/shredding and not.letting.up until the victim is dead. :no::eek:

I can handle the risk of a dog biting me, just like i can handle the risk of a horse biting me. But I will never stop being leery of large terrier-type dogs and guarding dogs, ever. No amount of cute photos of them licking babies or kittens on Facebook will ever change my attitude towards them. I believe they should be reserved for strong, experienced owners with no small children and a large property. And yes, they should be muzzled in public. Always.

Agree 100%. Pittie fans always play the “any dog will bite, any dog can be dangerous” card. I have yet to hear of a pack of Pomeranians killing their owner.

This link is from a local station (local to me) it has a lot of the same facts as a couple other links. Dogs being neglected, dogs eating on her rib cage, etc. Absolutely horrifying.
http://katu.com/news/nation-world/sheriff-no-doubt-that-dogs-mauled-22-year-old-va-woman-to-death-dogs-euthanized

[red_mares]

@Gestalt

Agree 100%. Pittie fans always play the “any dog will bite, any dog can be dangerous” card. I have yet to hear of a pack of Pomeranians killing their owner.

This link is from a local station (local to me) it has a lot of the same facts as a couple other links. Dogs being neglected, dogs eating on her rib cage, etc. Absolutely horrifying.
http://katu.com/news/nation-world/sh…ogs-euthanized

I recall a few years ago there WAS a problem with feral chihuahuas attacking people in Arizona. When other dogs attack or kill, it does make the news contrary to what pit bull nuts think.

Most domesticated dogs, outside of pits, CAN be left in a kennel situation without constant human interaction and literally don’t eat their owners/handlers when the opportunity arises. It sounds like hyperbole, but in the context of this conversation it really isn’t.

I used to leave my 2 cats at home by themselves when I was in the Navy for 2-4 weeks at a time. A petsitter fed them every couple days, but they wouldn’t interact with her. I never worried about them eating my face off in my sleep when I got home.

When you couple this with the old lady killed in Virginia Beach by her daughter’s newly rescued from death row pit, I’m thinking it might be time to talk to my state rep about some legislation to address this after the new year.

[Sswor]

They ate their owner. Maybe this will help people start to get it. They didn’t eat the neighbor’s kid. They didn’t eat the maintenance man. They didn’t eat their companion shiztu. They ate their owner.

A lot of people think it won’t happen to them. Reports of pits attacking and killing others are easy to disregard. Denial is easy to turn to when the risk is aimed elsewhere. But perhaps the report of these pits EATING their owner will give these people pause. Perhaps this one will hit home. It’s all fine and good until you end up food for what you’re feeding.

There are literally hundreds of breeds of dog available. Chose one that won’t attack, kill, and then eat your carcass.

–I mean just imagine; you’re out walking your dogs in the peaceful woods all alone…and one of them turns on you. You’re alone with your “loyal” dogs and you suddenly become prey. Do you think she realized her massive mistake in judgement in owning these animals? How soon before she lost consciousness did she feel that sense of regret? Terrible. Just awful. The pit bull lobby bears part of the blame. The people who run around social media spreading the “nanny dog” lie are accessories in this woman’s death. Anyone touting this "breed"s virtue as a loving family pet share in the blame here. Surely her breed choice was influenced to some extent by the social media trend of canonizing the pit bull. To think–if she had only chosen a different type of dog…

A shocking story to hit the news, but not in the slightest bit surprising.

I wonder if the fact that they are “rescue” pits will ever hit the news.

[roseymare]

I feel sorry for everyone involved. Even the friend although she was still wading in when she probably should have backed off. It is horrible that people didn’t believe the first responders accounts so much that pictures had to be released.
I do think the Vet statements may have been taken a bit out of context.
There probably was an intigator/trigger for the aggression. But it could have been something seemingly innocuous like a rabbit running by or a bird swooping low. We will never know.

[jazz8899]

https://news.nationalgeographic.com/…nsics-science/

I wanted to post this about dogs eating their owners. It’s a real possibility with any dog. And according to this, especially if your dog likes to lick you/ and is or nervous.

The dogs eating from her rib cage really has no connection to attacking imo. It could just be, at that point, the dogs investigating because she is hurt and carrying on from there

[rockonxox]

If dogs are hungry enough any breed will eat you if they have no other source of food.

As for how the attack happened, what led up to it, etc I wasn’t there and I’m not an investigator so I’m not going to speculate on all of that. But those here who seem to believe that their non pit breeds would never eat them or could never bite them and cause damage – you are sorely mistaken. It can happen. It has happened. I don’t believe that all dogs can be rehabilitated and you have to be incredibly careful with those that have come from a fighting or protection trained background. Many dogs from a fighting background should not be candidates to be adopted out, but there are plenty out there who never have issues. I agree that rescues/shelters should do a better job of vetting ALL potential owners who want a dog of any breed from that type of background and should be more proactive about euthanizing dangerous dogs (not based on breed but based on behavior).

I have been bitten (blood drawing bites–others have been mouthy but not aggressive bites) by a Beagle, a GSD, and a Dane. All left scars. Thankfully, the GSD owner stepped in grabbed him off of me. I was 5 years old and if nobody had taken that dog off of me it could have been a really bad story… it was attacking me like I was a rag doll. It was bred for and trained as a guard dog and the owner did not have control over the dog so it made for a dangerous combination. This is not to say that pits do not have their fair share of issues… but the attitude I keep seeing from all the “pits are awful they will kill you” individuals here is that no other breed would ever be capable of doing something like this which is a load of crap. People have been mauled by other large breeds. I’ve also, sadly, seen a small dog get killed by two Irish Wolfhounds who ganged up on it… little dog ran into the large dog area and those hounds went straight for it. Guess who didn’t? The 20 other breeds who were out playing including your most hated. We did have one pit that frequented the kennel who we did not trust with other breeds so we did not let them go into the large group, it got private run time with workers and not other dogs (this was at a doggie daycare). The other pits never showed dog on dog aggression and were fine. Quite lazy dogs who played about or minded their own business. Turns out the non-pits who we all thought were decent dogs ended up being the ones who killed. Not all pits are awful. Not all pits are great. Not all other large breeds are great either.

And that is the end of my rant. Go on hating pits, I’m sure I’ll get flamed for stating my unpopular to this thread opinion.

[NeedsAdvil]

@GoodTimes

I just spent about 15 minutes looking for articles that @Marla 100 may have read. I couldn’t find a single article (read about 20) that mentioned anything other then a pit bull. Even googling the victims name with Canary Mastiff or Presa Canario came up with nothing.
I agree that the weights of 120-130lbs in the article don’t point to a pit bull, however the dogs in the pictures in the articles I read don’t look to be over 80lbs, let alone 130lbs. My guess is that these dogs aren’t pure bred anything, and that’s why the easiest assumption is a Pit. I would think that if the victim called them something else then the father or friends would have corrected everyone. One article stated that the victims relatives were calling for euthanasia.

I don’t believe the statements from the friend either. I find it very unlikely that it took the father two days to find the victim or the dogs, but the dogs were able to hear her in trouble and broke out of their cages? If something else like a wolf or coyote attacked her (which is very unlikely, attacks on humans, especially an adult with large dogs is extremely rare) then I would expect the dogs to have battle wounds as well.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Diane_Whipple

[Hawkridge]

Other dogs will bite, sure, but generally speaking…they’re not out to kill you…see the difference? I’m sure someone will come up with a few examples of another large breed dog killing someone, but that just doesn’t compare to the HUGE numbers of killings done by pit bulls.

[ridingagain]

I was thinking about adopting a pittie puppy for my next dog, but this story makes me pause. I read somewhere that this woman raised these two dogs from puppies. I went back to see the history of dog attacks on the internet and the vast majority are from pit-types animals. I know several pits who are absolute sweethearts, but it sounds like these two were, as well, until they weren’t. This breed, whether from poor breeding, handling, neglect or instinct, just seems like a potential disaster waiting to happen, which is very sad. I wouldn’t adopt a Chow, Mastiff, or any other big aggressive breed for the same reason. Too unpredictable. And I realize that any breed of dog given certain circumstances can bite or become aggressive, but these breeds just can’t “give up” because that’s what they were historically meant to do. Guess I’ll stick to retrievers or hounds.