Out to kill you? Oh goodness gracious.
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I think you misread my post. It was directed at another poster who said she had read on another BB that the dogs in this particular case were canary mastiffs, not pitbulls. I still haven’t been able to find anything to corroborate that. Every news article identifies the dogs as pits, and one article mentioned that the previously reported weights of the dogs (120-130lbs was incorrect).
Yes. Once a pitbull(s) starts to attack you…it’s out to kill you. Sorry, but that’s what I beleive.
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The police made a point of saying that these dogs were neglected of attention and human interaction. I believe one of the articles actually said that the dogs were still being fed.
As far as the rest of your post, I agree and disagree. Any dog can bite, that’s obvious. Any large dog could potentially kill an adult, that’s just physics. However, for decades now there seems to be a disproportionately large number of fatal attacks by pit bull type dogs. Not talking bites, just fatal attacks on humans.
Saying that I did know a couple friendly pit bulls when I lived in Alberta, however I would never own one myself. And I will never trust a dog that needed to be rehabbed, regardless of breed.
The poster who compared large dogs with high prey drives to stallions was spot on. Only capable people should handle them, and anything other then perfect behaviour needs to be corrected immediately.
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I believe this too, so many news stories on these types of dogs that end in the death of humans.
It’s laughable to compare them to most other breeds. Did those “feral Chihuahuas” kill anyone, tear off their arm, etc? I’d bet not. Bite, yeah with the possibility of rabies but they aren’t going to pull you down and tear your guts out.
I can’t imagine having a dog I loved and cared for turning on me. What a horrifying ordeal.
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I guess that poor woman’s doggies were just out for a nice light snack, not to actually kill her.
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Completely agree, but Chihuahuas, being nasty little buggers with tendency to bite, always get brought up by pit bull defenders. :rolleyes: My dad’s dog is an aggressive little monster, but he’s not going kill anyone.
I did see an article about a pack of dogs in Mexico somewhere that was responsible for killing 3 or 4 people. It didn’t say how big the dogs were. Of course, there were people coming out of the wood work to save the feral dogs from the killer pack from being put down. Mexicans aren’t any smarter than Americans.:no:
Pit bulls need to go the way of the dodo.
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Absolutely! And a couple other breeds too.
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I had two Shih tzus that when together were tough little things. They would take on anything and would hunt as a pack. Killed a couple of rabbits, don’t think they meant to kill them, just wanted to catch them and then broke their necks when they actually did. Also, once saw them try to go after a bobcat together. It ran one of them over when it escaped and I was so relieved they didn’t get attacked. For all their bravery and bravado they would never have done that alone and being with their pack influenced those chases. I would not be surprised if two dogs in a pack went after a smaller dog if it ran. I don’t think they are necessarily viscous in that situation either, just instinct to chase and all it takes is a well placed grab to kill something. Did the Wolf Hounds actually maul the other dog or just grab him? I think there is a big difference and that is what makes the difference with the pits. Pits maul and that’s what their instincts tell them to do in that situation, hounds and shih tzus usually don’t.
Now, that in mind. I have been bit by dogs twice and they left scars neither of them pits. By a poodle when I was young and by a black and tan coon hound I had when I was an adult. The poodle while biting me would not have gone further. It was a bite and go situation, I was a kid and honestly, probably too pushy. The black and tan had seizures and with it bouts of aggression/defensiveness that he did not have normally and which eventually got worse. We put him down because of it, but he never had a mauling instinct. He bit and would than just growl and be fierce, we don’t think he was ever completely there when he was having those bouts. He always was just off and wouldn’t react to his environment. Even when he was completely out of it though, he would never have done more than a defensive bite, mauling was never even a consideration for him.
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I hear you rockon. As you can see though there are a group of posters here who have bought into the “all pit bulls are out to kill you” hysteria.
It is about popularity and numbers and irresponsible breeding or just not altering their dogs.
The CDC report also discusses this: “[B]reeds responsible for DBRF have varied over time. … As ascertained from our data, between 1979 and 1980, Great Danes caused the most reported human DBRF. … [S]ince 1975, dogs belonging to more than 30 breeds have been responsible for fatal attacks on people, including Dachshunds, a Yorkshire Terrier, and a Labrador Retriever.” (It’s also key to point out that you are more likely to be killed by lightening than a dog, and dog bites are at historic lows.)
If you look at the statistics of DBRF it is actually the Rottie then the GSD that is more likely to be involved in DBRF than the “pit bulls” are based on the numbers of the dogs in the population. Remember too that “pit bulls” is a grouping of dogs, NOT just one breed like the GSD and Rottie are.
What I want to ask for those who are for BSL, what would that ban look like? Who determines the breed or “type” of dog? Is it just based on what the dog looks like? Any blockheaded dog=pit bull? Papers? DNA? If DNA is used to determine who should be banned, what percentage of “pit bull” blood should be included in the ban?
The only reliable indicator of a dogs future behavior is their prior behavior, not their breed, not their coat color, not their look. You cannot just look at mixed breed dogs and determine their genetic makeup. I have a foster right now that is a prime example of this. https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=1581035641935139&set=rpd.100000861553573&type=3&theater
This is Koda, we were having trouble trying to figure out what all was in there, more than one person thought bully of some sort, he was marked at the sheltie as Dutch shepherd X, so I had his DNA run. There are 4 distinct breeds in his DNA, the biggest contributor is Boston Terrier, with Shar Pei, Catahoula and Staffordshire Bull Terrier in there as well. He is 62 lbs of strong excitable energetic high drive dog. He has NO dog aggression issues, he has NO human aggression issues. He came with no training, too much testosterone. He is a lot of dog and not for the average owner, just because of his energy and drive. I have had great fun training with this guy (working on HZ here). Yet I will be very careful about what type of owner he goes to so I will probably have him for a bit. He is a stunning dog whose greatest joy in life is snuggling up to his human for a hug and loving.
From the reporting it sounds like these dogs had human aggression issues. I do not know to what extent that was shown prior to the death of this young woman, but I am a firm believer in euthanizing ANY dog that shows unprovoked human aggression (have done so with a bully I rescued who showed unprovoked human aggression).
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Then why does anyone breed any animal for specific tendencies? Why are certain breeds known for specific temperaments? Why doesn’t a Bichon Frisee have the natural herding tendencies of an Australian Shepherd? Why are milking shorthorns considered on the average to be less docile than Brown Swiss? Why are Shires considered more quiet than Clydes?
Relying on prior behaviour and not breed/type to predict future behaviour didn’t do this poor woman any favours.
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I keep hearing this, but I’ve never seen a report of a story where someone was killed by a large breed that wasn’t a pit/cane corso type mastiff dog. It would be believable if some links were provided. Oh wait, you said “mauled”, not killed. Still, links please.
What they hell kind of kennel has a setup that allows a small dog to accidentally “run into the large dog area” with 21 different breeds of dogs? And THIS is your defense of pit bulls? The Irish Wolfhounds got to the small dog first?
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The poster is referring to mixed breed dogs, not purebred. There is no way of knowing by looking what breeds a dog is actually made up of, in what %. My friends adopted a lab X puppy. Puppy grew up to be very intense, high energy with a strong instinct to herd. The X is probably border collie or something, although you wouldn’t know it by the dogs apparence.
Way too often people mistake aggression for protection. I know people who are thrilled they have a protective dog, until I explain the difference. The problem needs to be addressed immediately. Instead the dogs eventually attacks someone and its, “it came out of the blue with no warning”. There was plenty of warning, it was just not recognized, or ignored.
Consider who is breeding these BBMs. Many around me are low income renters, who are trying to make $$$. They would not qualify to get a stable tempered dog from a reputable breeder, and think it is cool if the dog expresses aggressive behavior. I would also bet they they are the #1 dog population in the country, esp as so many dogs are considered pits.
I know many stable tempered BBMs. Most are owned by clueless individuals, but the dogs are even tempered, not dominate, and have a low prey drive. They are not a threat to anyone. I also know a few that should be put down yesterday. One was adopted by my friends. Rescue didn’t disclose she had been bounced from 3 different homes in a few months for resource guarding/biting. Within 3 days, she began the behavior at my friends house. Friend was bit 3 times while trying to take a bone away from the dog. The next day, they took her to their vet who called the rescue and they admitted her issue. They promised they would send her for rehab, so my friends returned her and even kicked in some extra cash towards rehab. Well, rehab never happened, and within a few weeks, dog was advertised again as being a great family dog.
Friends then foster failed a BBM from another rescue. She has huge fear issues, but is not aggressive in the least, even when exhibiting sheer terror. I have never seen a dog so terrified of people. 0 aggression. They work with her to build her confidence and she has come a very long way, but would not be suitable for most homes. The rescue recognized this and gave her to them when they asked about keeping her. She has come a very long way in a year, and has an ever increasing group of people she trusts.
The problem is the people. People who think every dog can/should be saved. People who are not educated enough to recognize aberrant behavior. People who wont put in the time and money to learn to train and socialize their dogs. People who won’t put in the effort to contain their dogs.
The breeder I bought my first show dog from (Mastiff), kept a male out of another litter. Her kids were good with the dogs and helped out with their care. At 16 months the dog growled at her 12 year old son. That afternoon he visited the vet for some blue juice. Good breeders will not tolerate aggression in their lines.
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sascha when you breed pure bred dogs you HOPE they will exhibit the traits for which you are breeding for but there is no GUARANTEE that the resulting offspring will do so. There is a thread in this forum about a poster getting a new dog, an Aussie that won’t herd, why he was being given away. See future behavior predicted by prior behavior.
Add in mixed breed or “type” of dogs there is no guarantee of anything. That is why dangerous dog laws are more effective when enforced properly than BSLs are in targeting the problem dogs. BSLs are also very expensive to enforce, have been shown to not be effective in reducing DBRF.
yn here you go:
Rottweiller http://www.azfamily.com/story/35631611/1-year-old-boy-killed-by-rottweiler-in-phoenix-has-been-identified
GSD http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4133622/Baby-girl-mauled-death-German-Shepherd-Texas.html
Great Dane mauling http://rense.com/general19/boy.htm
husky X http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/north/nunavut-dog-mauling-chesterfield-inlet-1.3620950
labrador http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/1988-01-21/news/0010200257_1_labrador-retriever-stack-george-owens
doberman http://www.insideedition.com/headlines/19475-family-heartbroken-after-4-year-old-is-killed-by-new-dog-dropped-off-minutes-earlier
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Thanks for the links khall; the six of them span from 1988 to 2017. I figured there were cases out there, I just wonder how many links one could find in the same amount of time that are attributed to pitt bull type dogs? I will admit that I absolutely hate all fighting breeds and think they should all be exterminated, so I am certainly biased when it comes to this topic.
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coth won’t let you post that many links.
Reading the story of this woman is heartwrenching, and thinking about the dogs is rather frightening.
Back in my northern days I was very involved w/ local shelter. They worked hard to evaluate temperment and behavior issues and sometimes made a hard decision to euthanize a dog. There was always a wide assortment of breeds/mixes
Fast forward to Florida, where I have been half heartedly “shopping” for second dog for maybe a year. EVERY county shelter and many private rescues are probably 75% pit types. Maybe some were turned in by prior owners, but the bulk are strays or dumped dogs, picked up by various do-gooders (do not mean this to be negative) or animal control off roads and out of fields. There is nothing known about their backgrounds, their temperaments, their breeding or anything else. Few are spayed or neutered. The shelters overflowing and not well equipped to do evaluations. So anyone who decides to adopt one of these dogs seems to be taking a rather big risk and potential liability. And IMO the shelters are feeding the public market.
Personally I would not have one. I know a couple who are decent dogs. I know a woman who got two pit puppies; both were put down before 9 or 10 months old - one went after a person unprovoked, and the other started a nasty tangle with another dog at the dog park and a few days later showed aggression to the owner. I will continue to look for a mid sized fluffy, goofy dog.
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That was a rhetorical question. I already know that the number of attacks by pit bull types in that time frame is not countable.
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There is a website: dogsbite.org that is a source of statistics on dog vs human fatalities and the amount of deaths per year is significant enough to warrant creating legislation to control the breeding and owning of a dog that is potentially dangerous enough to kill a human! That doesn’t include - dog bites and dogs vs other dogs, cats, livestock, wildlife. It is irresponsibility of dog owners but also shelters need to be honest about this breed and quit offering Canine Good Citizen testing/titles to pitbull crosses that are obviously dog aggressive - my idea of a canine good citizen is a friendly well behaved dog that isn’t a danger to me, my children or my pets. I take a zero tolerance for dog aggression and I am amazed at how many people are in denial about their own dogs - or lack any knowledge on dog training. Letting a dog run a fence line for example - barking incessantly - getting into a frenzy - this just lets the dog self train himself to be out of control - many of these dogs ‘get out of the fence’ and then attack people walking down the street - which recently happened to a little boy - he was killed after he had just fed the dogs and was walking down the street. The dogs in the article that killed the girl look like a lot of typical dogs in the south - pitbull bred with a brindle plott hound - bred to run and kill hogs and bear. I’m curious to know if these two dogs were intact males?
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The point sailed straight over lol. “HOPE”, because there is a high likelihood. It is not an accident that the Aussie that won’t herd is the exception. It is not an accident that certain lines of Holstein cows are bred to be less docile and more competitive and the occasional exceptions are unexpected.
It is not a shock that dogs which have been bred for many years for aggressive tendencies are aggressive.
As far as cross breeding goes, well, temperament traits that eventually get passed on start somewhere.
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