It just baffles me that we see so much NPA, underrun heels, long toes, and bull nosing (often related to NPA). Who is teaching farrier’s this and why are they thinking it’s OK? I am rather uncomfortable with how common it is (not just on here).
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Me too-this top photo is from last year, but we didn’t start correcting his angles this aggressively until around July of this year. The top pic looks horrendous to me now!
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As a European living in the US, yes. Farriers are uh not very good here. I’ve had some good ones but it is very hard to find them and to get in as a new client.
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And is it just me or is NPA the new buzzword or acronym of the week? Before this every horse had kissing spines and then ECVM. Not saying this isn’t a problem or that the horses presenting this way don’t have NPA, just that I’ve noticed a recent uptick in online diagnoses of NPA.
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I think a lot of it is that people are becoming more aware of it.
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When we know better we do better
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Radiographs don’t lie. I just took my hunter to a lameness specialist. We did a full lameness exam as she has a previous diagnosis of suspensory branch strain, and neck arthritis (via radiographs).
However, after the exam, the vet was very concerned about her feet. We shot multiple views and even I could see that they aren’t right. Bullnosed hinds, long toes/low heels in front. I knew here feet were changing with my new shoer, but now I feel awful for not speaking up. It’s hard when as an owner, you aren’t always there when your horse is shod-- I live 50 minutes from the barn, work full time, and farrier shoes during the day. I’ve shared my radiographs with the farrier and my trainer, and suggested a call to the vet (he encouraged that if the farrier, who does work with vets, has further questions). If all else fails, I’ll haul her to my previous farrier (which will be incredibly inconvenient).
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Well it’s tough to speak up. With my late ottb another farrier that was at my barn pointed out the issues with his feet. Once it was clearly shown to me, I asked/talked to my farrier about it. He came back and supposedly trimmed him but the other farrier (she had a horse there so was there in the evening when I came out) took a look and confirmed what I was thinking…nothing had changed. I called my farrier again and the next time he was out (had other horses there to do), I hung around for as long as I could so I could meet up with him in person (said he would be there early morning) but had to leave to go to work. When I came to the barn in the evening, there was a note on my stall door from him saying he thought my guy’s feet were fine, didn’t see the problem and that it was time for me to find another farrier.
It was probably just as well tbh, I think my boy would’ve gotten progressively worse.
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As others have said, a lot of it is about new awareness of the issue. I think it’s also because of the whole “no hoof, no horse” reality.
I’d argue that my horse is a bit of a special case in that NPA truly was the driver of basically all of his issues and fixing it really has fixed him, but it can exacerbate so many other problems that I feel it’s worth looking at even if it’s not the core of the onion.
Also, as far as diagnostics go, a few hundred dollars for films of something that can (hopefully) be fixed by a competent farrier over the course of the normal shoeing process is a lot cheaper than many other options (I unfortunately learned this the hard way).
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Are they though? I don’t think I knew enough about what my horse’s feet should look like 25 years ago to accurately compare. I do know that my current farrier is miles ahead of a lot of other farriers in the area and I still have minor complaints.
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Or are some owners more educated and seeing the problems?
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I think it’s a combo of “all of the above”.
- US farrier industry is unregulated, so you get what the schools churn out for profit and then… whatever someone sells.
- in the past we didn’t know what we didn’t know. Horses (on average) are living longer and working longer (remember when an early teens horse was OLD?). As a result, we see things that never popped up while they were riding sound, or were never diagnosed before the horse was PTS or sent to auction. That, and we now know that many training and behavioral issues are actually physical problems.
- in the same vein, “serviceably sound” is less of a thing, the flip side of that coin being we are less tolerant of asking lame or uncomfortable horses to work. Instead, a vet is called or the horse is retired
- diagnostics are better. We can find things (like NPA) and have certifiable proof vs guessing based on external factors. To that, we also have new ways to address such issues based on research and trial and error
- social media. Anyone can go online and claim to know The Way to trim a horse. Unfortunately, mainstream farriers have been proven (in general) to regularly be behind the times as far as biomechanics and research. Not always, but often enough. Add in the commonly strained vet vs farrier relationship, and you have owners going to podiatrists hoping to fix their issues. When that isn’t possible or proves expensive, people often strike out on their own - and document the process online.
I see a lot of atrocious feet. I’m in the process of rehabbing a set myself. I think in general, most owners want to leave a check and go on their merry way, they don’t know any better and trust their pros. Then, we don’t start digging into farrier issues until something breaks. That’s why NPA is becoming such a buzzword - people rarely start asking about their horse’s feet and backs until something is wrong.
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Agree with alllllll of this. I often think back and wonder if the grumpy/sour/naughty horses of my youth 25+ years ago were actually just in pain but no one found it or even tried very hard. I wonder about the same with my late mare.
Personally, I kept seeing NPA discussed on the forum and went “hmmm I’m glad I don’t have that problem! I have a great farrier and my horse has great feet!” and then when he had consistent trouble with hind end soreness from work the last few years, I tried all the things that made sense (bodywork, lameness exams, radiographs, physical therapy, joint injections, IM injections, saddle adjustments). They all helped to a degree, but it was still way too easy to make him sore at a level of work that everyone around me said should not make him sore.
I asked multiple vets if we should x-ray the hind feet to look for NPA and they all said no, his feet look good. Finally we did the x-rays and found the NPA.
Without the NPA being found, I easily could have carried on like this. He was never lame-lame. But now he feels sooooooo good under saddle and his lingering “always” bit of reaction to palpating his SI and lumbar area are gone. He’s easier to ride and feels stacked up over his hind end. Time will tell if this was “the thing” but I feel certain it was “a thing.”
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My girl had her feet done by my current farrier, who used the set of radiographs I just had done by vet. Very different from any previous trim/shoe by him!! The funky pads certainly collect rocks.
She was still off a bit but it’s only one week since her coffin joints were injected (after exam, blocking and radiographs). Definitely left front which vet felt was where the ouchiness was. Hoping that time and the new approach to the NPA will make her sound and more comfortable.
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Glad to hear this.
Reviving this thread because I just had hind rads taken of my older gelding. He’s always had back soreness issues (we won’t get into all of that now, but he does not have any kissing spine), and recently he started standing a bit camped under and resting his right hind foot, which is coincidentally the leg he kicks out with when he’s stiff. He also has wind puffs - he has always had these, they don’t seem to bother him, but I have always wondered what could be causing them. His SI palpates sore always, regardless of SI injections/mesotherapy,etc. Rads were taken at the very end of his cycle - he has an appointment on Monday with the farrier.
His left hind is 1 degree positive, right hind is neutral. Right hind has some med-lat imbalance, not crazy but I can see it with my untrained eye. Sole depth about 1.6cm on both feet.
To me, this doesn’t sound that bad. No negative angles, but the lateral imbalance and neutral angle on the right hind does seem to add up with his soreness presenting moreso on the right side. Honestly, I’m a wee bit bummed his hinds weren’t negative since that would help explain some of these constant issues he has.
My question is, (and I can post the rads as well if I need to), could just being neutral cause that much of an issue vs actually being negative? Could the imbalance on his right hind make a big difference in his movement and strain on his hind end? Would everyone recommend pads to fix, pulling the shoes to fix, or just trimming differently?
(I’ll be discussing with vet and farrier too of course, but want personal experiences please!!)
Yes and yes.
I answered on another thread but 3-5 degrees is considered normal for most horses - anything below 3 is likely to be having a negative impact on everything above. 0 is bad, though I’ve seen horses at -3 and worse 
. This could absolutely be the reason he’s deteriorating, or a result of the structural issues above. Usually, it’s all a big connected mess unfortunately. Being low/negative puts IMMENSE strain on the suspensories and SI, and it radiates.
As far as shoes and wedges vs barefoot… it really depends on your farrier I think. If you have a good farrier, I’d let them choose the method. Barefoot CAN help and work, but you need a good trim - not necessarily a barefoot “trimmer”, but someone who knows what they’re doing. And usually a short schedule (2-4 weeks, at first. 4 weeks max, IME). With shoes and pads, 4 weeks is still my max, though 5 can be done on a slow growth winter. The benefit of a GOOD shoeing package is it immediately corrects the angles vs waiting for the body to change, but you have to weigh the cons of shoes as well.
Getting the feet fixed AND doing something to break the body pain cycle (OSPHOS or meso or gabapentin or shockwave or whatever) is in my opinion likely to have the best outcome. I find that the feet make the back/hind end sore, and then the soreness makes the posture worse which makes the feet deteriorate. Positive feedback loop. If you can hit both at the same time, I would.
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Mine was quite uncomfortable at 0-1. Much much happier when we got back around 3-4.
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@GraceLikeRain @fivestrideline Thank you guys! Hopefully this will help him get more comfortable then. I was worried when I heard they were 1 and neutral that this may not be the cause of his discomfort but perhaps fixing this will help him out more than I was giving it credit for.
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