I’m not sure a bigger bit would help this very much. Horses like that seem to get used to them and keep acting up.
A horse this fussy is a danger to other horses and hounds.
Whipping in only makes them good whip horses and doesn’t train them to be in a group.
More galloping can hop them up even more, unless you hunt them for a few months two or three times a week and get them really exhausted with a fast hunt club.
The horse just doesn’t sound suitable.
But then again, I am probably too old to have any relavant thoughts on this as my new horse is still a green hunter after only five hunts and I am much too old to be on a greenie.
Wink. I think.
Thanks all for the input.
Please don’t bash the trainer…he’s been there, done that since the 1960’s…hunters, jumpers, timber, still breaks an occasional baby and trains. This horse was dumped in his lap when she moved barns. She has it very good, other trainers would not be as patient.
And of course the gelding behaves IMPECCABLY for him. He behaves for my daughter. He is a handy little bugger in the ring, and is fine dinking out on the trails…a gallop thru an open field is not in the cards for this particular owner.
The horse simply tunes her out. You can see it in his eyes. (I tune her out now on trail rides as well I have to admit)
This hunt is a farmer’s pack, low key field, does not move fast. Great for anyone just getting started in hunting & needs to keep the “training wheels” on. Which is pretty much how I got started. She hunted her old horse with them, which was no problem…he took her everywhere. So she understands what a steady eddy is.
There is absolutely NO WAY this horse would ever move out in larger hunts in our area (insert well known, established MFHA’s here). He would spin, spook & dump within the first 10 minutes. A sedate Paper Chase in this particular country was not fun, ergo I do not ask her to go anymore.
Come Shine - I don’t know what her rationale is for not upping the hardware. It has been suggested to her at length, I discussed it with her as well. Her excuse is that she has “bad hands”. (argh!)
I trailered, but she does own her own trailer…she cannot hook it up herself, husband has to drive it. (long story)
Tommorrow is the last day of hunting for this particular pack…so it’s a moot point after this until cubbing.
My dilemma is how to tell her diplomatically without making her cry: “your horse is an asshole anywhere but the ring, he is not your old horse, after 8 years it’s clear he’s tuned you out, so please stop with the ongoing love/hate dialogue in the barn, your constant commentary is ruining my barn time”.
Thanks for letting me vent.
In the kindest way possible (to save face) say something like each horse has a gift to give be it showing, trail riding, pushing cattle or fox hunting to name a few things. When we insist that our horse be a round peg in a square hole- do something that does not suit it as demonstrated by repeated frantic behavior- we are setting our horse up to fail and ourselves up to be badly hurt. IMO your current horse is not suitable to hunt with you as demonstrated by A, B & C. Whether you have a chat before tomorrow or after tomorrow to let her know “I’m not trailering and riding in the hunt field with you anymore” doesn’t matter, set yourself apart from her problems and denial.
In my hunt safety is paramount and safety comes in the package of a suitable horse. Forward moving, fast, handy and energetic are fine. Out of control, disruptive and dangerous are deal breakers.
Those kind of people always cry weather your diplomatic or not. Just tell her at least you will have tried and you can cross that off you list. I personally would offer to trailer her steed to the hunt. Good luck!!
Just my idear…
Just thinking about things to say or how to say it…
How about asking her “Are you having fun doing this?” answer-no “then why are you doing this if neither of you is having fun?” “Why put yourself through all this”…“Is it worth the risk of hurting yourself and him?”…“I wonder if this is teaching him the wrong things”…“Maybe this is where the 2 of your aren’t in sync”…“lifes too short to do un-fun, scarey things that neither of you is enjoying”…“Are you at all concerned about what others might be thinking?”
…“Would you consider adjusting your goals to something less stressful for both of you so you both can enjoy the experience? You don’t wanna ruin him do you? I can tell he’s miserable out there.” " Lets spend the summer going to group trailrides to prepare the both of you for hunting next fall" “We can assess how he does and decide if hunting is ever going to be in his repertoire; it might now be”…"
I agree that a better rider should hunt him a coupla times to see if he’s at all capable as I think most horses are. Some need a lot of work! It’s the riders that might not be. And sometimes a rider will stop doing a dangerous thing if they think they are risking the HORSES health and not THEIR health sad to say. Tell her honestly what your concern is…true friends will/would…I hope. Maybe…kinda…:winkgrin:
She certainly may cry. But you’re not saying it to hurt her feelings and I trust you wouldn’t say it in a way to hurt her feelings. You’ll feel bad if she cries, but right now, you feel bad every time you ride together.
What is your ultimate goal in talking to her?
- Do you want her to stop hunting this horse altogether?
- Do you want someone else to get on this horse until he is safe for her to hunt?
- Do you want her to keep hunting the horse but to stop complaining to you about it?
What would the “fixed” situation look like to you?
You tell her she has a lovely athletic horse who seems happiest in the show ring. He doesn’t seem to enjoy hunting or hacking out. Perhaps she should consider leasing him out to a young rider who wants to focus on showing and perhaps allow him to reach his full potential in a job he enjoys. After all, we have a responsibility as a horse owner to do what is best for our horse.
[QUOTE=Come Shine;6213574]
What would the “fixed” situation look like to you?[/QUOTE]
The “fixed” situation for me would be:
-
stop with the blasted out-loud bi-polar running commentary about your horse’s awful misdeeds/cute antics in the barn. The horse is what he is. It’s been 8 years…enough already! My patience is truly worn thin. (there, I said it.)
-
If you want to hunt again with this particular club, find yourself something that you can be happy with. It just has to be safe and polite in a group - you will not be galloping and sailing over 3’ coops with this particular club. Never did, never will…it’s just not that type of territory.
If you insist on having this particular beast hunt, then you must have a pro ride and make good on that! (she ruminated on that several times last year but never got around to seeing it thru). I will ask our MFH to speak to her on it.
I think I will explain to her that I cannot listen to her out-loud constant commentary on her horse, as it is leaking into my “barn time”. I come to ride & find therapy in doing my own thing.
Thanks again all, this was cathartic.
Talk, I have been in your shoes before and you know what, you aren’t going to change her. She is going to be having these stream of conciousness monologues about whatever horse she owns. That’s not going to change. Nor is she going to change horses until she gets hurt.
But you can change how you react to it and I think you are getting there. Set boundaries on what you will or will not tolerate. Don’t enable her by giving her rides to the hunt or trail riding with her. Don’t react when she goes on and on about Dobbin. Just keep moving, keep focused on whatever you are doing, and keep the ignore button pressed. I am not saying this is easy to do, but it does work. The only thing you can change is your own behavior.
Curious: this doesn’t really sound like a hunting-specific question to me, but a management/client question.
As I understand it, the woman and her horse are making the hunt miserable for you and for others, and the entire character of the hunt is changing in order to accommodate her. This should be the concern of the hunt master, who is losing the interest of his or her traditional client base. I’d bring the issue to the attention of the Hunt, e.g.: I’ve really enjoyed participating the Hunt, which has suited Goodboy and me very well for the past x years. This season, things seem different. The going is slower, less focused, and more timid than I’ve enjoyed in the past. Can we talk about why this might be, and if this is what I should continue to expect?
You could make that approach more or less explicit, but it is the business of the Hunt to deal with the maladroite huntress and balance her interests and abilities with those of the other members. It’s not your place or responsibility to talk sense into your fellow boarder. If it turns out that things are just this way (if the Hunt secretary and master are not able to hear and adequately address your concern) you may need to look for another Hunt.
[QUOTE=TalkIsCheap;6210463]
Any pointers for what I should say?[/QUOTE]
Yes. Look her right in the eye and tell her the horse is not a child, not a human, and she needs to stop making excuses for him. Tell her the horse doesn’t want to hunt, and you worry for the safety of other people in the field because she is either unwilling, or unable, to control the animal. Tell her you are sorry, but you aren’t going to be party to someone being hurt in the hunt field, and no longer will be trailering her. If she wants to hunt, she can transport herself.
Then if she starts to go into the “big bag of excuses” just tell her you aren’t interested, and walk away. If you stay, you merely enable her mentally by making her believe you are willing to hear her explain away her horse’s behavior. If you walk away, you (in effect) close the door, and she then realizes there is no one to listen. Sad, but necessary.
Frankly, if the horse is that much of an issue in the hunt field, to the point of being dangerous, the Master would/should have said something. I believe the real reason you came here for advice, rather than talk to the Master, is because the horse isn’t quite into the “refuse to allow back into the hunt Field” category - ie: trampling or kicking hounds, running past the Master, or screaming and yelling in the field and disturbing the hounds. It is more an issue of the woman’s personal safety that you worry about - to which I can understand and empathize.
Good luck to whatever path you chose to take.
Get the master to do it…
My suggestions:
- Distance yourself from the situation - you sound too emotionally involved. It’s not your horse, you cannot fix it
- Tell her, nicely, when you’re done talking and need quiet time with your horse.
I’ve done the first one in a similar situation - a close, long time friend who has an unsuitable horse (fortunately no hunting involved!). She’s a nervous type, he’s a fairly high strung type, they just aren’t a good match.
I used to get really emotionally caught up in the whole thing. I wanted her to have a horse she could enjoy. Not one that she could barely manage a dressage test in a quiet, familiar environment! About once or twice a year she talks about selling him. I used to have long (frustrating!) conversations about everything to do with this horse, when she would ask my advice, we would hash over everything . . .
About year 5 I realised that I’d said all I could say, we’d had the same circular conversations over and over and over. She is not going to sell or retire this horse. If she wants to talk about him, that’s fine, I’ll listen and nod and be interested, but I won’t offer suggestions (said them all before).
If she wants to go for a trail ride with me that’s fine, I just know what it will be like and I will mentally set aside the time to babysit her (well not now that I’m horseless). I won’t, however, go out with her and another friend as more than one other horse sets the gelding off. I will say “sorry, XXX and I are going to have a fast ride this weekend, I can go out next weekend with you.” Initially I felt really mean about this, but it’s much safer and less tearful and doesn’t involve us all going in early because the gelding can’t cope with two other horses walking (seriously, we never even approach a trot).
Fortunately, aside from this, she’s a great friend.
Now I’m at peace with the situation (it’s only been 7yrs, I’m a slow learner). I would love her to have a suitable, fun horse, but I can’t make it happen, only she can.
The second part - I’ve had to do this at the 2nd to last place I had horses. One lady would come up and tell me everything that was wrong with the place/her horse/the weather etc etc. Initially I tried to be helpful, but eventually I realised that this just made the conversation longer. So then I would just not engage with her - smile, nod, keep on grooming, saddling, mounting, riding away. If she wanted to have a conversation that wasn’t moaning about something - then I would converse.
Not sure if your person will respond to this . . .
At the end of the day I’m a fairly blunt person. I try to be kind and sympathetic, but my time with my horse is precious . . .
Thanks all, you last few posters hit the nail on the head & are correct in your observations.
Ganymeade - you are spot on with the “circular conversations”.
She tells me yesterday that she is excited that our trainer has agreed to hunt him for her…one glitch, the season is over woman! :eek:
I shot back with “Make sure you have it lined up to have a pro hunt him at least 10 times for you, and make good on that!”.
I will take up your excellent recommendations. Thanks again!
Ganymede made an excellent point. Most people want you to listen . . . but they don’t really want you to try and solve their problem.
It took me a really, really long time to figure this out and it was frustrating to see people struggle with the same things perpetually.
[QUOTE=TalkIsCheap;6210773]
… He hasn’t hunted in years but is not above galloping the snot out of assholes…[/QUOTE]
:lol::lol: I know nothing about hunting, but that’s the funniest thing I’ve read in a while!
Imo, the focus should be on how the horse is faring in the middle of all of the social/how to tell her/human concerns that muddle the issue.
The horse is far more miserable than its incompetent rider; it has no leader on its back, & this is totally distressing to the horse.
Every horse deserves a Friendly & skilled rider; THIS is rightly your message to the human.
A bigger bit will work until it doesn’t.
What does her horse eat? Is he eating jet fuel or lots of hay and less grain.
Does he wear ear plugs - use every ride not just hunting days.
Does he wear a martingale?
More bridle will not make him quieter, may even upset him more.
Does he ship to the meet or hack to the meet and have time to work off some of his energy jogging to the meet.
Is he turned out mornings ( or even all night ) before he goes hunting?
When he started hunting did he hilltop or go on the roads for half a season to see if he could mentally take the sounds and sights of fox hunting? If he started out racing around with hounds before he went first flight he fried his brain and may never get over it.
Does the rider ride well enough and have any idea how to make up a field hunter.
Have a knowledgable - good riding fox hunter ride the horse and help with the decision as to whether the horse is safe to hunt.
You may have to go back to square one and start all over again, and he may never be able to take the noise and excitement.
Talkischeap - welllllll, still a little way to go with the non-involvement 
My response would have been “cool, that’s good” - no buying into the drama.
But it’s taken me a looooooong time to get to that space.
Bogie - yup. I really, really want people to enjoy their horses and riding. If I was asked for advice I would do my best to help, but then I would care too much about what they did and get involved in the drama.
Now I still give advice if asked for it, but I don’t expect anyone to actually follow it and it just doesn’t bother me any more. It’s not like I’m an expert! I’ll ask how their horse is going and I’ll lend a sympathetic ear, but I won’t involve myself emotionally.
This has cut down on frustrating conversations no end! People who want you to be involved in the drama give up when you nod and smile and “oh, that’s great” or “oh no, what a pain” without getting drawn in. The trick is to not start discussing it with them - just listen (ha! A skill I always need to practise) I’ve found that people I previously found quite frustrating I now get on with quite well.
And it’s easy to tell the people who really do want your advice - they’ll try it! And then I get a great feeling when they report back that the jumping instructor I suggested is really amazing 
TIC, I think the trainer riding the horse is your best chance to have someone this lady respects tell her the horse isn’t hunt material. At least you have the entire off season to figure out how you want to handle the next season.
