Your thoughts on planting ash trees (EAB; currently far away but...)

[cardinale]

Ash trees look like good candidates for fast-growing shade trees where I am (SW). However, the Emerald Ash Borer, although currently far away, will get here at some point. I’d hate to have a tree grow for 10 years, get to a good size, and then get zapped. Local nurseries sell ash trees and don’t seem concerned about EAB.

There are other trees available. Just wondering whether anyone in the Western U.S. plants ash trees despite the possibility of EAB getting here in the future.

Thanks for your opinions.

[HungarianHippo]

Based on my work in biomass energy, I crossed paths with foresters and other tree experts. They told me that every ash tree in the US will eventually die from EAB. There’s no stopping it. Maybe you get lucky and it takes 10 years to get to you, but that’s almost worse–you’ll have put all this time into growing a tree only to start over back at square 1.
So I would not plant them.

(Of course the nurseries want to sell trees that they’ve already spent time growing that they know they will not have a market for. In the waning days of VHS, the VHS sales guy probably would say the same thing :lol: )

This may be helpful to read: https://arborscapeservices.com/can-save-ash-tree/

[cardinale]

Thank you for that link, HH. Confirms my suspicions but I wanted to ask because every nursery I’ve called in the region (all of which still promote many species and varieties of ash) either has no idea what I’m talking about :rolleyes: or says I can just spray for it when it gets here. No thanks. I’ll plant something else.

[Simkie]

I love our ash trees. They’re all dead, though, every last one of them. They burn really nicely.

Unless there’s some magic of a resistant tree, planting ash anywhere right now is going to end in heartache. Unless you like firewood

[SusanO]

I planted some outside the stalls on the top of a hill. I had a row of them and behind them a row of Thuja Green Giant and behind that some oak trees. The Green Ash trees were cheap ( Lowes) and I kind of planned them as something fast growing that wouldn’t last long. And they died before they got big. The horses did abuse them but I don’t know what killed them. I kept them watered when they were small. I don’t think it was borers - I just don’t think they liked our climate ( Southeast) or liked where I planted them. But by the time they died out the oak trees had grown quite a bit so I didn’t really need them anymore. Sometimes they send out feeble shoots from the roots but they never thrived. I was happy the horses were chewing on them and not the better trees so they served a purpose.

[HPFarmette]

@Simkie

I love our ash trees. They’re all dead, though, every last one of them. They burn really nicely.

Unless there’s some magic of a resistant tree, planting ash anywhere right now is going to end in heartache. Unless you like firewood

I don’t love mine. I don’t need firewood. And 2 huge ones have fallen from neighboring property and busted my pasture fence.

[Renn_aissance]

In the 5 years I have lived on this street there have been about 10 ash trees removed from my line of sight from the kitchen window, including mine, because of the ash borer. Beautiful beautiful trees, gave wonderful shade, but they can’t do any of these things when they’re dead.

You could take them down and jump them, I guess.

[OTTBs]

Google took me to a blog from a tree service. They say ash trees can be saved if treated early, and it costs less than removing the tree. Then I saw this quote on the site:

"I’m a landowner in central Kentucky, and we have LOTS of ash in our woodlands. Although we have been heavily impacted by EAB, I have noticed a very curious thing, which I feel compelled to share with anybody who cares about the future of ash trees in America…following is a synopsis:

–Our ash trees started showing signs of EAB infestation 4 years ago (2011).

–By last Spring (2014), ALL ash trees over 2" diameter on our 216 acre, mostly wooded property were affected (most were dead by this time, but a few did leaf out somewhat in the Spring of 2014), EXCEPT 9 trees relatively close to our house.

–By this Spring (2015), ALL ash trees over 2" diameter on our property were dead, EXCEPT those trees around our house. They are still in fine condition.

–Every tree around our house that has shown “resistance” to EAB has received light exterior “mechanical damage” from our cats using them as scratching posts.

The “coincidence” just seems to scream that there is a connection. I know that some plants/trees etc. produce chemical defenses in response to external damage…and I think it very likely that perhaps this is exactly what is happening here: That the trees with damaged bark are exuding some chemical that wards off EAB infestation. I am happy to send pictures if desired."

I had a plant start growing in my pasture, thought it was a bush. Now (after ~5 years) it’s quite tall, and I asked my very knowledgeable landscaper neighbor what it was–an ash tree! :eek: Definitely fast growing, but I don’t think it’s giving off much shade.

@Renn/aissance 4 of my logs in my pasture out back are from my ash trees that above neighbor took down in 2014.

[HungarianHippo]

I am 100% certain I’ll take scientific advice from trained foresters and conservation scientists over a landowner’s anecdote about cat-scratched ash trees. Or a company that is financially invested in me “treating” ash trees against EAB.

Just as with dutch elm disease, young trees don’t necessarily succumb right away. My 17-acre timber is FULL of american elms. They are all doomed, but many survive 10+ years, long enough to throw seed and perpetuate. (Great for morel hunting!!)

You don’t necessarily need to cut an existing tree down–might as well wait til it dies-- but the OP was asking if she should plant NEW ash trees. Resounding no.

[trubandloki]

I am dealing with getting estimates to remove the now almost totally dead Ash trees from our property line hedge row.

I would not plant Ash trees if I knew that in 10 years I would be paying to have them safely removed, it is not cheap.

[B_and_B]

I am dealing with hundreds of dead and dying ash trees, a very very expensive problem. Technically, you can ‘save’ an ash tree from EAB…IF you spray/inject it every single year with a particularly nasty insecticide, the neonicotinoids are the most effective…ugh. So expensive and bad for the environment.
However, that will do nothing about the continuing mystery of ‘ash decline’ or ‘ash yellows’ which was causing problems even before EAB.
So, no. There are a variety of trees out there. I’m no expert on the SW, but a quick Google turned up some interesting ones: Desert Willow, mesquite, the palo verdes/blancos, some pines and oaks, and any number of non-natives, some good some not!

[tabula_rashah]

I am the GM for a wholesale tree nursery and 3 garden centers, I also own a nursery brokerage. We are not allowed to sell or move ash trees on our vehicles and I would never encourage anyone plant them. Usually we recommend Zelkovas as a sub

[Tarlo_Farm]

I’m currently having about a dozen ash treated every two years. It costs about $300 a year, and by next year, I’ll be able to back off to every three years. The difference is astounding!! The untreated trees (ones that were already dying) are going quickly, but trying to hang on. The young untreated stock in the woods - less than 3" in diameter - seem to be doing well. I could treat the bark on the smaller ones, and might in the future, but right now I’m sticking with the injection method of the bigger trees. Friends about 15 miles south of me have an Ash about 2’ in diameter and 50 feet tall. It too is treated by injection and doing marvelously. Don’t know what that treatment costs them.
Do some research on Basswood. Those are nice trees as well. Silver maples grow quickly too.

[xeroxchick]

Just want to say that foresters are different from arborists. Foresters are trained to get the most money from the trees, not about the health of a Forrest and how to get old growth health. That being said, how depressing that we can’t try to grow indigenous trees because of infestations and blight. I’ve been trying to grow beech and ash and elm from seeds. Even trying to grow some chestnuts I picked up in France.

[B_and_B]

No (looking at xeroxchick’s comment, that won’t quote for some reason)…Foresters are absolutely trained about how you can get old growth trees as well as marketable timber trees. I know of no forester, and I know a lot :). that is simply looking at money these days: they are trained in a set of things: marketability, wildlife value, recreation, and aesthetics; and all of those are real questions that come into play on each sale. Now the landowner…well: it better look pretty and make money! The real difference is that arborists look at single trees: ‘what can we do to have this tree survive’ whereas foresters are trained to look at: ‘what is going to work as a healthy forest in 20, 30, 40, 100 years’. It is, in fact, a totally different set of skills with very little cross over. Oddly, the best cross over is between the precision fellers (loggers whose sole job is to put a tree on the ground in difficult areas) and the arborists. They both tend to get that individual trees are Weird.

[Wingstem]

The Ash is a beautiful shade tree. Go ahead and plant some. If they are attacked - it’s unfortunate. If they are not, that’s great! But you may want to plant a few of something else. I don’t know what is native to your are so can’t advise anything except to go native.

[4horses]

I bought 30 Empress tree seedlings from World Paulownia institute. They came in a small box in the mail. I only managed to kill 2 of them. Now they are 3-6 feet tall. Supposedly they don’t have many pests. That was a lie. The green caterpillars eat them, the army worms eat them, the deer eat them, and the horses eat them, even the palmetto bugs eat them. Despite this, they are mostly thriving and supporting a small ecosystem of bugs- green spiders and other insects. Trying to keep them from getting eaten was challenging. They all have leaf damage to some degree- eliminating the caterpillars requires weekly check-ups. Once they are above my head, they are on their own.

The good news- they grew 3-6 feet in 4 months. I bought them in July as tiny seedlings. Put them in pots on the back porch, watered daily, moved them in partial shade outside, then planted. Took me all summer to finish planting. They are nearly indestructible - 3 got chopped down due to the horses eating them, and are already growing back. I had to electric fence everything to keep the horses away.

Probably worth a try- they love water but don’t like mud. Fast growing - yes. And you can chop them down and start over. Not sure about them handling hurricanes, but they aren’t near any buildings for that reason.

I’m in Florida so that may not help you. Our baby Sycamore tree is also doing well.

[Simkie]

@4horses

I bought 30 Empress tree seedlings from World Paulownia institute. They came in a small box in the mail. I only managed to kill 2 of them. Now they are 3-6 feet tall. Supposedly they don’t have many pests. That was a lie. The green caterpillars eat them, the army worms eat them, the deer eat them, and the horses eat them, even the palmetto bugs eat them. Despite this, they are mostly thriving and supporting a small ecosystem of bugs- green spiders and other insects. Trying to keep them from getting eaten was challenging. They all have leaf damage to some degree- eliminating the caterpillars requires weekly check-ups. Once they are above my head, they are on their own.

I’ve not heard about these, so googled.

Sounds like they might not be a great choice…

https://www.bhg.com/gardening/trees-shrubs-vines/trees/empress-tree/

[SusanO]

Oh those “Empress trees” are like weeds on steroids. They are UGLY and very invasive. Some people plant those things around here and then they spread everywhere. If you are in a cold climate and they die back every year when it gets cold then maybe you won’t contaminate the environment. I would just as soon plant privot. If I saw where one had sprouted on my property I would be out there with Roundup before you could blink!

[cardinale]

I just spoke with a nurseryman in Tucson about trees (other species) and he suggested ash. He said EAB will never survive in the desert SW so ash trees here are safe. He “learned all about EAB in college 30 years ago” and was familiar with the predictions that every ash tree will succumb eventually but was adamant that won’t happen here because it’s just too hot–EAB will never survive.

However, I know of other invasive exotic pests that supposedly weren’t going to be able to take the heat, but they adapted by finding microclimates (protected crevices in tree bark, etc.) and ride out the hot weather, so I’m skeptical of his claims. Once EAB is established in surrounding, cooler areas, if trees in the desert are spared, I’ll be convinced then.