My toy poodle is approximately 9 years old and he is not neutered. I adopted him one and a half years ago. He has a heart murmur and therefore it is dangerous to put him under. Zeuterin is now available in my area. It is neutering without anesthesia they just numb the area locally and use a shot- chemical neutering. Has anyone heard about it? I know he has an enlarged prostate. Would neutering now help with that? Is it worth doing? I know it won’t be expensive, just wondering if it is a good idea to do at this point in his life.
I think it’s brilliant and the next male dog I have, provided his behavior is good, I would opt for it. I am not a vet, but I’m thinking if the prostate issue is hormone-driven, then zeuterin will not help since it doesn’t change the hormones.
Paula
Have you discussed taking him to a specialist surgery center for the neuter? They have board-certified specialists who keep the animals extra safe under anesthesia & during surgery.
I’ve heard of Zeuterin. It was on the market for a while as Neutersol, then recalled and rebranded. I’ll be curious to see how it fares this time. It does sound like an interesting solution for cases like yours, or animal shelters without a vet, or “manly” owners who are uncomfortable with neuters.
[QUOTE=independentlyawesome;7444041]
Have you discussed taking him to a specialist surgery center for the neuter? They have board-certified specialists who keep the animals extra safe under anesthesia & during surgery.
I’ve heard of Zeuterin. It was on the market for a while as Neutersol, then recalled and rebranded. I’ll be curious to see how it fares this time. It does sound like an interesting solution for cases like yours, or animal shelters without a vet, or “manly” owners who are uncomfortable with neuters.[/QUOTE]
I can’t afford it. I have looked into it, and the costs are very high. It would involve taking him to a cardiologist and having tests run there- expensive- and even then they said it would still be dangerous to do the neutering.
I did some research on the product and decided I can not accept dogs who have been neutered via this method as clients as it does not alter the testosterone aided behaviors and therefore might be forbidden by my insurance. It just isn’t a debate I want to risk my livelihood upon. For the OP, I think not having to worry about him impregnating a dog accidentally might be worth it for you. I don’t know about the prostate.
[QUOTE=Laurierace;7444115]
I did some research on the product and decided I can not accept dogs who have been neutered via this method as clients as it does not alter the testosterone aided behaviors and therefore might be forbidden by my insurance. It just isn’t a debate I want to risk my livelihood upon. For the OP, I think not having to worry about him impregnating a dog accidentally might be worth it for you. I don’t know about the prostate.[/QUOTE]
He is so shy and scared of every other dog that I don’t think he would ever impregnate anyone :lol: he literally runs from other dogs, he was never socialized. Apparently it reduces the testosterone level to 50%.
In that case I would probably do nothing if I were you. The only downside to doing nothing that I can see is finding boarding when you go away. Hopefully you have an alternative and that isn’t an issue.
[QUOTE=Laurierace;7444137]
In that case I would probably do nothing if I were you. The only downside to doing nothing that I can see is finding boarding when you go away. Hopefully you have an alternative and that isn’t an issue.[/QUOTE]
I take him with me when I travel. So lowering testosterone won’t help his prostate gland? That was my hope.
[QUOTE=Jhein12;7444143]
I take him with me when I travel. So lowering testosterone won’t help his prostate gland? That was my hope.[/QUOTE]
That I can’t answer, sorry.
It may help, but it is entirely dependent on exactly what the prostate issue is.
From what I read it can only be used on dogs 3-10 months of age. No good in most shelters or rescue situations. Or for the OP’s dog
It is only labeled for 3-10 months, but is apparently being used in older dogs as well, and they are hoping to expand the ages with further study from what I’ve read.
I’d talk to the vet who diagnosed the prostate problem and ask if the reduced testosterone levels would help. It is certainly worth looking into.
What meds is he on for his heart murmur? Is he clinical? What grade is it? Generally, anesthesia is not a risk with most heart murmurs if the anesethist knows what they are doing!
[QUOTE=SquishTheBunny;7444459]
What meds is he on for his heart murmur? Is he clinical? What grade is it? Generally, anesthesia is not a risk with most heart murmurs if the anesethist knows what they are doing![/QUOTE]
He is not on medication, and medication for helping the heart murmur has never been mentioned to me! I need to find a new vet. I called the vet closest to me that is offering zeuterin and they are charging $250 plus $40 exam fee! So it is more than standard neutering costs and they don’t do anesthesia just do a stick of a needle?!
Neutering is a very quick procedure, but does require anesthesia. I would go to a vet who can explain a murmur to you. There are innocent murmurs, ones that cause no effect to the patient under anesthesia, and sinister ones that require medication. I would be more concerned with an arrhythmia than murmur for anesthesia. For a 10 minute neuter, the heart muscles wont be too stressed out. Definitely get a second opinion on the murmur and stability for neuter. But…like I have said, generally a mild to moderate murmur is not an anesthesia risk - just something to be aware of (ie. using pressers instead of fluid boluses with low pressures). Basically, 10 minute neuter - your dog likely wont need any IV fluids at all.
As for a prostate - yes, it should decrease the size if the prostate is healthy or normally inflamed. Prostatitis is common in intact dogs. Most of the time it doesn’t cause a problem, but in some cases it does. Perineal hernias are also a concern with intact dogs.
Its up to you whether you want to neuter him or not. If he is having difficulties urinating or defecating because of his prostate then I would absolutely go for it. You could also just monitor the prostate with ultrasound measurements if you want to leave him intact. Neither are a wrong decision.
[QUOTE=SquishTheBunny;7444485]
Neutering is a very quick procedure, but does require anesthesia. I would go to a vet who can explain a murmur to you. There are innocent murmurs, ones that cause no effect to the patient under anesthesia, and sinister ones that require medication. I would be more concerned with an arrhythmia than murmur for anesthesia. For a 10 minute neuter, the heart muscles wont be too stressed out. Definitely get a second opinion on the murmur and stability for neuter. But…like I have said, generally a mild to moderate murmur is not an anesthesia risk - just something to be aware of (ie. using pressers instead of fluid boluses with low pressures). Basically, 10 minute neuter - your dog likely wont need any IV fluids at all.
As for a prostate - yes, it should decrease the size if the prostate is healthy or normally inflamed. Prostatitis is common in intact dogs. Most of the time it doesn’t cause a problem, but in some cases it does. Perineal hernias are also a concern with intact dogs.
Its up to you whether you want to neuter him or not. If he is having difficulties urinating or defecating because of his prostate then I would absolutely go for it. You could also just monitor the prostate with ultrasound measurements if you want to leave him intact. Neither are a wrong decision.[/QUOTE]
I think that it is the murmur combined with his senior age that is the problem maybe.
[QUOTE=Jhein12;7444493]
I think that it is the murmur combined with his senior age that is the problem maybe.[/QUOTE]
I don’t think 9 is very old, especially for a tiny dog.
I have a 90 lb pit bull who had surgery last year at age 12 (a much “older” 12 than would be in his toy equivalent), who has a heart murmur and very severe liver disease. He was under for the removal of a tumor and for a cystomtomy to remove tons of small bladder stones (those were related to the liver disease, and this surgery took much longer than a neuter as it was a more significant procedure because he was opened up), and he did fine. My vet is very cautious, does bloodwork immediately before surgery (we have nixed one surgery when his electrolytes were out of whack), uses a different induction agent (propofol), and my dog has done very well in the handful of surgeries he has had over the last few years.
It is up to the comfort level of your vet. If your dog has a significant heart problem then maybe it isn’t worth it to try. I think a second opinion is a good idea. Even if you can’t go to a specialist, another well-respected and experienced vet.
Good luck.
I presented at the annual Alliance for Contraception in Cats and Dogs (acc-d.org) meeting last summer, and as expected, the hot topic of the conference was Zeuterin and part of the clinic included a Zeuterin administration training seminar for vets and techs - I think around a 100 dogs or so were recruited locally and had the procedure done for free. Anyway, their website has the conference proceedings and a lot of great literature on Zeuterin if you’d like to read up on it more.
Zeuterin will drop testosterone concentrations, but not to the point that testicular ablation will. Given that prostatic hyperplasia is largely fueled by testosterone, decreasing concentrations as much as you can will help slow progression. Now what would really be the perfect solution for your dog is a product Pfizer Animal Health put out a few years ago specifically to treat prostatic hyperplasia - it’s an immunization against GnRH, which in turn reduces testosterone to basal levels. They pulled it off the market due to low product sales - shame 
If you want to, you can also talk to your vet about whether it would be possible for him/her to administer a calcium chloride injection. It’s not a FDA-approved castration method, but it’s been demonstrated to drop testosterone to about castration levels, and there’s been a lot of promising work being done with it over the past five years. Good reading on it here: http://www.parsemusfoundation.org/experience-of-us-veterinarians-with-calcium-chloride-male-sterilant/. The ACC&D website and conference proceedings also have a lot of CaCl2 stuff, and I have original research article pdfs if you or your vet want more information on the hard science of it.
