Zweibrucker 1/2 brand?? Confused!!!

[laurennugent]

We recently got in our sales program a papered and passported Zweibrucker gelding. Now we typically work with TBs, so the warmblood world is fairly new to us, So i have a few questions.

-He is branded on the left hind with the arches of the Zweibrucker brand, what i would consider a half brand. He does not have the crown. What does this mean?
-The breeder on his papers has an address of being in the US. Does this mean he was not imported? He has a passport however, so not sure if he was bred over seas and then imported or bred here? All his papers are in German, which in conjunction with having a passport, leads me to believe he was imported.

Let me know if anyone can help or give some insight!

[Heinz_57]

Helpful info for you can be found here: http://www.rhpsi.com/articles/RegistrationPapers.asp

It sounds like what you have is a COP (Certificate of Pedigree)? These papers would be white, instead of pink, as described in the link. I believe all RPSI papers are in German, as it says they are produced by the German office and sent to NA, so with a US breeder he’s probably not an import.

[epowers]

RPSI does almost all of their business in NA, but is based in Germany and issues German papers/passports. GOV (German Oldenburg Verband) also issues German passports. If he’s registered RPSI and his breeder is in the US he is most likely not imported. German registries issue a passport at registration, it has nothing to do with being imported or not. Although his passport would be stamped and updated if he was, so you could just look at it.

[laurennugent]

@Heinz 57

Helpful info for you can be found here: http://www.rhpsi.com/articles/RegistrationPapers.asp

It sounds like what you have is a COP (Certificate of Pedigree)? These papers would be white, instead of pink, as described in the link. I believe all RPSI papers are in German, as it says they are produced by the German office and sent to NA, so with a US breeder he’s probably not an import.

After looking at his papers, i believe they are white (only have a pic of them handy, not a great pic) and they say “certificate of ownership”. So sounds like COP. Would this mean he is or is not registered?

[epowers]

It means he is registered but one of his parents was not approved. It doesn’t really mean anything at all since he’s a gelding, but had he been a mare he would not have been eligible for entry into the studbooks to be a breeding animal.

[soloudinhere]

Yes, all RPSI (now Westfalen) papers are issued in Germany and are in German. They are labeled “passport” but it is not an importation document.

[SnicklefritzG]

@epowers

It means he is registered but one of his parents was not approved. It doesn’t really mean anything at all since he’s a gelding, but had he been a mare he would not have been eligible for entry into the studbooks to be a breeding animal.

Yes, that is true, although regarding a parent being “not approved” I would like to clarify to the OP that it doesn’t mean that the parent or the resulting foal was of not sufficient quality.

RPSI has strict guidelines on eligibility based on pedigree. Their website has the details, but for a horse to receive full papers, it needs to have, I believe, three generations of approved horses in its pedigree. So let’s say a stallion is very high quality but can’t be registered with full papers because his pedigree doesn’t have the required number of generations of approved parents. He might go into Studbook II. His offspring will get half papers and so on until the pedigree criteria are met. It takes a lot of time, generations of breeding, to get the offspring of a Studbook II stallion into a situation where they can get full papers.

I don’t think it really matters for most people. I know a local judge in my area who rode a quarter horse all the way through I1, sucessfully. That horse, even though it made it to FEI, wouldn’t have been eligible for most studbooks had it been a stallion or mare.

[soloudinhere]

That’s not quite accurate. Stallions registered with other registries are eligible for book I. They don’t need 3 generations registered RPSI to be a book I stallion. Quarter horses and “American breeds” are not eligible for either book. Thoroughbred stallions who are stakes winners or winners of over $100k are eligible to be performance tested and be book I. There are 2 Arabians, 2 trakheners, and one AWS stallion in Book I who obviously wouldn’t meet that pedigree restriction.

The mare book is more restrictive. To be mare book I, four generations must be main book horses. Thus, it’s more likely that this horse is by an approved stallion but out of a pre-mare book mare as even book II mares get full papers on their foals by approved book I stallions. It’s also possible that it is a book I mare but a book II stallion.

Either way the registry does consider that to be a lesser pairing than book I x book I.

We could tell you why if we knew the pedigree, OP. He’s still a branded wb, and Ann at the Westfalen NA probably has foal inspection records etc for him. She’s very organized and has been running the North American arm for some time.

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[laurennugent]

@soloudinhere

That’s not quite accurate. Stallions registered with other registries are eligible for book I. They don’t need 3 generations registered RPSI to be a book I stallion. Quarter horses and “American breeds” are not eligible for either book. Thoroughbred stallions who are stakes winners or winners of over $100k are eligible to be performance tested and be book I. There are 2 Arabians, 2 trakheners, and one AWS stallion in Book I who obviously wouldn’t meet that pedigree restriction.

The mare book is more restrictive. To be mare book I, four generations must be main book horses. Thus, it’s more likely that this horse is by an approved stallion but out of a pre-mare book mare as even book II mares get full papers on their foals by approved book I stallions. It’s also possible that it is a book I mare but a book II stallion.

Either way the registry does consider that to be a lesser pairing than book I x book I.

We could tell you why if we knew the pedigree, OP. He’s still a branded wb, and Ann at the Westfalen NA probably has foal inspection records etc for him. She’s very organized and has been running the North American arm for some time.

​​​​

The name on his papers is Dharmawind. 7 yo gelding. sire is Donnarwind