12' Stride Clarification

[HunterMarc]

I understand that a 12’ stride is a normal competition distance. My question is, how many horses actually have a 12’ stride without being more forward and slightly flatter versus more collected or more round?

I believe many times on a hunter course you will want to get that 2, 4 or 6 strides in between the fences as they are measured out. Hunters are also ridden differently than Jumpers are. Well what about Jumpers?

My focus really isn’t hunters anymore with my new guy, been doing a lot of dressage over the past year and it has paid off making him adjustable for jumping. He is 16.3 hands and normally ride him with good rhythm, round and make him wait for the jump. I guess I would rather have a nice controlled canter being round to use his hind end versus being flatter to get the measured strides. Usually I ride a 4 stride as 5 or a 3 as 4 and so on. I have done 2 strides in 2 and is a bit more forward. On a side note as i type this, I am sure in time that if I was to ask for the 4 stride distance I could get it no problem, he would just be more forward and still could be round and wait…

MAYBE I AM THINKING TO MUCH INTO THIS? ugh!

We are just starting to kick off our jumping more over the past few months and both are doing great, the 12’ stride thing has had me thinking.

Thanks

[MCF1991]

In order to get down the lines you have to collect first. Your horse has to know how to adjust which yours does. You have done all the hard work. Now, sit down and close leg to open him up to leave out the add. You can have a flat way of going and still be using the hind end if your horse is strong enough and you have put in the effort. It is hard to let go and squeeze when you are use to adding…trust me I know. Try practicing the add first and then come back and leave it out. Your horse is big so I can’t imagine you are going to need too much umpff it is just a matter of getting use to it. Then, try adding two extra strides as opposed to one and then going down to get the correct the number. It is all about getting the good distance in and maintaining your pace to get the strides you want.

[silver_charm]

While not as ‘strict’ as hunters, jumpers definitely have related distances. As you go up the levels, especially, they raise questions where a distance will be on a half stride and you have to figure out what your plan is going to be. If all you have is the collected canter, you may get around the first round clear doing the adds, but will you be within the time? And then forget the jump off! There’s no way you’d win unless everyone else had rails.

I agree with MCF in that you should be able to get down a line both on the stride and on the add. I’ve had trainers set one strides long specifically to get the horse (and me!) thinking forward through the stride, not through rushing. The trick is to be able to do the move up as well as the add within the rhythm. As long as the rhythm doesn’t change the stride can be whatever and the distance will still be there.

[greysfordays]

Having just moved over from the hunters to the jumpers, it’s been a real education in quality canter. I feel if you have a quality canter, most horses should be able to jump a line set at 3’ and above on a 12’ stride. My horse is 17.2, so 12’ is a pretty squeezy for him. The horse I lease has a much smaller stride, so the 12’ feels normal assuming normal distance in and quality canter in.

A lot of “making the strides” has to do with how you came into the line. Especially if you’ve gotten yourself to consistently add, I would guess your horse is really jumping up and around the jump, so you may be landing a little shallow after all your jumps, making the distance even a little longer? I think practicing canter poles where the distance is 12’ or longer really helps to practice that feeling of the hind leg reaching under and really pushing forward against the ground. Rather than getting strung out to make it.

[SienaPsyche]

@greysfordays

A lot of “making the strides” has to do with how you came into the line. Especially if you’ve gotten yourself to consistently add, I would guess your horse is really jumping up and around the jump, so you may be landing a little shallow after all your jumps, making the distance even a little longer? I think practicing canter poles where the distance is 12’ or longer really helps to practice that feeling of the hind leg reaching under and really pushing forward against the ground. Rather than getting strung out to make it.

As someone who has to make a conscious effort to maintain a quality, forward canter rather than a faux, pogo-y collected canter, that’s a very helpful description. It’s so easy to lull yourself into thinking the later is desirable–“I’m going slower so I must have more control (not to mention it feels safer)”, but the difference in jump quality really is night and day.

[Mac123]

As a wise trainer once told me, all training should be practical. That is, while getting the add is a necessary phase many green horses go through and being able to add the stride is an skill all horses should be able to do, we horse show at a 12 foot stride (average, anyway). So your goal should be developing the canter to where the 12 foot stride is just as rideable and balanced as the 10 or 11 foot stride.

If you’re coming from dressageland, where the emphasis is most often on collection and carrying power, you have to understand that the balance and frame of hunters and jumpers is somewhat different. Yes, we want them engaged and using their hind end, but in the American system, the balance point is more forward as compared to a dressage horse. We don’t ride hunters in the super round and up frame that dressage horses go in. While we may school them there periodically, the end goal is to allow them to carry themselves on a more relaxed frame.

Jumpers will oftentimes go in a more dressagy frame because their ability to answer the course’s questions, which many times includes jumping a line that’s set long and jumping a line that’s set short (sometimes one after the other) necessitates more rideability and more balance over the hind end.

But still, it has to be practical. A jumper isn’t going to make optimum time going around doing the adds. So even when you watch the very collected style of some of the Europeans, they are still galloping on - sometimes leaving strides out in a jump off.

Collected and balanced can happen at a 12 foot stride. It may feel more forward than you’re used to, but that’s because you’re used to an underpaced canter.

All horses have a different natural stride length, and I would say 1/3 are shorter strided, 1/3 are naturally 12’ strided, and 1/3 are big strided. So many horses will struggle with naturally fitting in the strides based on 12 feet, whether they’re short-strided and have to open up to make it or whether they’re long strided and have to compact. But all the same, riding a 12 foot stride will feel different than the canter you’re used to. That doesn’t mean it’s wrong, it’s just a skill you need to start working on. Initially your horse may fall apart as you learn to work on the bigger stride length. But imagine a dressage horse in that massive extended canter (probably a 14 or 15 foot stride!) - they still stay balanced and together. So it’s not just necessary, it’s more than possible.

I think you need to shift your way of thinking. It isn’t “do the adds and be balanced OR do the strides and be flat.” It’s developing a balanced canter at 10 feet, 11 feet, 12 feet, 13 feet, 14 feet, and having a wide range of accessible adjustability at your fingertips without sacrificing control or balance.

[LookmaNohands]

“My question is, how many horses actually have a 12’ stride without being more forward and slightly flatter versus more collected or more round?”

How long is a piece of string?

Yes, it is all about the quality of the canter.

[IPEsq]

The word ou are looking for is impulsion. You need impulsion in order to collect for dressage correctly. You must maintain the impulsion as you ask the horse to open up its stride. If the “step” is hard for your particular horse, he must open up to get to the step more than others (some may need to collect), but you can’t lose the impulsion as you ask for a lengthening of stride. Because that impulsion will allow the horse to get light in the front end and use the hind end when it’s takeoff time and land balanced. But does the horse need to sit back and squat to the same degree as in dressage? No. So while you are maintaining impulsion, the reason it feels different is that you are giving up that big collected feeling.

But don’t necessarily think about it as dressage vs jumping. While in dressage you would spend more time in a collected gait, look at what upper level tests ask. You often see an extended canter transition to a canter pirouette. That’s not so different than some hard questions asked in big jumper classes. In both cases, the horse must maintain impulsion in order to maintain a quality canter at both ends of the spectrum of extension and collection.

[OutsidersOpinion]

To answer your question, a lot of horses have that 12ft stride naturally; at least horses that are showing on the AA circuit at 3ft+. It is good your horse knows how to collect, but continually practicing the “add” in a line will always make the normal strides feel longer and faster. I try to teach all my horses that their “normal” rhythm is the 12ft canter, but that collecting is maybe 10ft and the quicker pace maybe 14ft. I do ride jumpers, so balance is very important and I try to make sure they always can collect or open up more around a course in case I see the move up or the shorter distance.

Also this all depends on the horse, if you buy a horse with a short stride, it will always be a bit of a struggle to make the 12ft lines which is why it is important to buy a horse with the quality of stride needed in mine for what your personal goals are.

[HunterMarc]

Thanks everyone for the response. I will start working on NOT adding the stride and taking out. I am going to works with canter poles at 12’ apart to help me get used to the feeling and then start with a 1 stride grid, then a 2 stride grid and so on. Keeping the impulsion and balance and not bringing him back /collecting too much before the fence.

[ToTheNines]

On your canter poles…I use this exercise constantly to calibrate my 12’ stride. Make them on the half stride. No need to do the full distance for a line at shows. Mine are set at about 42 feet to do 3 strides in between. That’s good enough.

And on the same note, don’t practice lines with the jumps too low. I won’t do a line unless the jumps are 2’3" or more.

[Blinky]

To your question: Yes, most horses that show in A/AA shows have a natural stride that is longer then 12’ therefore getting the 12’ is “easy”. On the more local circuits those horses tend to have a shorter stride.

[findeight]

Don’t forget the fence heights too. If the fences are just speed bumps or ground poles? The horse doesn’t jump, just lopes over. 12’ will correctly ride as an add with no jump to carry 6’ into the line and no distance away from a step over to eat up the other 6’. Practicing the step for 3’ fences 3’ wide won’t tide the same over speed bumps or poles.

You really need at least 2’6" before the horse even starts to have to rock back a little in front of the fence and land further into the line making that distance and 11’ will work better at 2’6" then 12’ fior most horses, They know they don’t have to get all four feet off the ground and actually jump over little stuff.

[Mac123]

@HunterMarc

Thanks everyone for the response. I will start working on NOT adding the stride and taking out. I am going to works with canter poles at 12’ apart to help me get used to the feeling and then start with a 1 stride grid, then a 2 stride grid and so on. Keeping the impulsion and balance and not bringing him back /collecting too much before the fence.

There’s nothing wrong with practicing the real step over poles, but it will feel a lot faster than if you practice over jumps. Without the take-off and landing of a jump (they just step over a pole), that line will ride longer as poles than as even small jumps. You may want to start with small jumps first if you are uncomfortable with the faster feeling of the 12’ step.

[Lord_Helpus]

The issue of strides and distances is based on the premise that a horse will leave the ground 6’ in front of a fence and land 6’ beyond the fence. This presupposes a 3’6" - 4’ jump. Jumping into a line, a horse lands over the 1st fence 6’ out, takes 3, 4, 5, 6 12’ strides and leaves the ground 6’ in front of the second jump.

The problem is that the vast majority of hunter riders do not jump that high anymore. If the jump is 2’ high, a horse probably lands 3’ - 4’ away and takes off the same distance away from the next jump. Thus, the line is actually set on a 1/2 stride even if the horse is cantering on a 12’ stride between the 2 jumps.

You do not say what height fences you are jumping, but if they are substantially under 3’6" then the lines need to be adjusted to reflect the much smaller arc the horse makes over the jump.

[HunterMarc]

You all make good points and really starts to make sense. Yes, my jumps are small right now at 2’ or 2’3". He does them no problem and soon I think could go up to 2’6" but want clean relaxed before going to height and he is relaxed and clean. So with them being smaller, having the landing and take off typically at 6’ each, it woudl be much shorter as the jumps are smaller. Makes sense!

Just to clarify. When you say a 1/2 stride, you mean a 2 stride line would be walked out at 1 1/2 strides if the jump is smaller like under 2’3"/2’6"? Or a 3 stride walked out as 2 1/2 strides? At the end of the day you are taking out 6’.

[findeight]

No, two stride line will walk as 2+ if you correctly step from where the horse will actually take off and land. Because the horse will not be taking the 12’ worth of landing and take off steps as part of the jumping arc but as canter strides.

Big part why lines with real small fences don’t ride well. Incorrectly set for what you are asking the horse.

[HunterMarc]

@findeight

No, two stride line will walk as 2+ if you correctly step from where the horse will actually take off and land. Because the horse will not be taking the 12’ worth of landing and take off steps as part of the jumping arc but as canter strides.

Big part why lines with real small fences don’t ride well. Incorrectly set for what you are asking the horse.

Right, I understand. I would not take the full 6’ takeoff and 6’ landing in consideration with that walking distance. It would be slightly shorter with a smaller jump. A smaller jump may be 3 or 4 feet for take off and 3 or 4 for landing. Not a typical 6 for both.

[ToTheNines]

Well the problem is that when you get to a show, the lines will be set on multiples of 12. What works for me is to work on the 12’ stride with poles set as described above. Poles on one long side, keep that canter to a vertical on the other long side. I never add in lines, but I don’t do lines unless they are 2’3" or more.

Trot in, canter out on the real lines, adding a stride, will get you a nice canter also. A great exercise because it teaches you to land and go forward right away.

[findeight]

Some shows actually do adjust the lines in as the height get lower. Rateds always do, locals maybe, maybe not. Have to be prepared for anything and work hard on flatwork/adjustability. I hate it when the shows make it difficult to impossible to make your horse look good because they are too lazy to move the fences when they lower heights. They also do you no favors by picking the short step all day…you get to the Rated shows, the correctly set lines seem to ride like a drag strip. If they leave them long at your practice shows, you feel like you are cramming them in when correctly set.

Decent Hunter course lets the horse show off, not trap it. Some trainers are guilty too, either too lazy or they don’t know what they should to be teaching and preparing riders to show.