2 TB Stallions in Virginia for Sporthorse Breeding?

[anon6923113]

So I came across two thoroughbred stallions standing out in Winchester who are very interesting. Remarquez and Snowy River. I like the photos I see of their confirmation, as well as their pedigrees. Remarquez is Hail to Reason sire line, Snowy River goes back to Milkie, and is actually line bred to him.

http://www.colordalefarms.com/stallions.html

Both are JC registered. Both are “colored” - but that is not what I am interested in. I am more curious about the possibility of either or both of them being a nice TB stallion option, which might improve top line on a mare, not take anything away from a good jump, and be used to produce a nice athletic lower level eventing keeper and all around sporthorse. I also like that they are local to me and I can see them in person and check out the farm. The mare I would use is a lovely, very correct girl, with excellent legs and feet, and a great canter and jump. She’s a little short in the neck and back. Great shoulder and hip. Her neck is nice though, but I want to be careful in terms of avoiding stallions who are downhill or have a lower set neck. Temperment wise, the mare is a bit opinionated and hot, but smart and fair minded. She looks like a hunter, but is very athletic and definitely better suited for eventing. She’s had one foal from frozen AI, one from fresh, and one from live cover. She’s older and this would be her last foal, so live cover, or AI with fresh locally is appealing. I’m thinking of breeding in 2019 or 2020.

It seems like this farm is relatively new to the area - maybe I am incorrect on that though. I’m a bit leery about “color breeders”… But there are some really nice colored TB stallions out there who have opened my mind up on the idea (Goldmaker and Simba Twist in particular). Anyway… I’m curious if anyone has information on the back story of these two stallions, or opinions. Just trying to do some homework before contacting the farm and going out to see them in person, and checking if there are red flags that I should be aware of.

[vineyridge]

As far as I know, Milkie never added anything good for sport; he was used because of his color, and only his color. IIRC, the palominos from Red Fox Farm and Glitter Please were more talented in sport.

[Highflyer]

They are unraced and appear not to have had any performance careers or sired anything with a successful performance career, so if you’re not breeding for color I’m not sure what the attraction would be.

[anon6923113]

The only attraction is that they are local, I could easily go see them in person, and Remarquez’s pedigree is pretty decent for sport. Conformation in photos is nice at first look. Just curious if anyone knew anything about either of them. I’ve been to see a few other better knownTB stallions near me, and it’s been very educational. Just thought I’d inquire in the forum if anyone had any background information before bothering further.

Performance is important… but so is confirmation and temperament. It’s nice to be able to visit a farm and see a stallion in person for those reasons.

As for Milkie - I knew he was bred for color, but also had read he was a nice hunter sire. I’m not sure if that meant a good jump and quiet temperament… or if he was just unremarkable other than siring pretty horses. One person’s idea of a “good” hunter sire can be quite different from another’s.

[anon6923113]

After looking a second time at Snowy Rivers pedigree, I realized he’s a full brother to Billionaire and Zillionaire. I know Pegasus Pure Gold came from one of those stallions, and was a pretty respectable eventer. And Zillionaires babies won quite a bit on the line, but were small overall.

[Texarkana]

Remarquez used to stand at Reed Hill Farm in Tennessee. I’ve swear I’ve seen Snowy River advertised at another farm in the past… in Canada I think?

The stallion in VA who intrigues me the most is the Northern Baby son, Xenodon.

[anon6923113]

Agreed on Xenodon. He’s also on the short list to go see in person.

[Texarkana]

@Virginia Horse Mom

Agreed on Xenodon. He’s also on the short list to go see in person.

If you do, report back! As the only Northern Baby son in this country AFAIK, so long as he isn’t built like a crooked, unbalanced tripod, he remains intriguing!

[beowulf]

I’m with Viney, that Milkie is not a name for sport and is just a color contributor. I would not say that his descendants are high quality sport horses. I’ve seen a couple linebred to him, I am not a fan.

Remarquez at least has a good pedigree for sport, and has produced a few (albeit, spotted) horses that seem like they can handle a riding career.

Xenodon should interest good sport horse breeders (eventers particularly) for the damside alone; it is not often you can get Klairon or Sicambre that close anymore, and both had absolutely freaky jumpers. Ahoonora is a grandson of Klairon.

[Texarkana]

@beowulf

Xenodon should interest good sport horse breeders (eventers particularly) for the damside alone; it is not often you can get Klairon or Sicambre that close anymore, and both had absolutely freaky jumpers. Ahoonora is a grandson of Klairon.

I did not know that. I’ll admit I know nothing of Klarion or Sicambre although both look like nice types from their photos.

Xenodon is 20 this year, so anyone interested should act sooner rather than later. I believe he might be the last, active son of Northern Baby anywhere, since NB’s best sons were born in the 1980s. There was another one in the PNW who was around the same age, but he seems to have fallen off the radar…

[Texarkana]

OP, sorry, I’ve totally derailed your thread. But I’m going to do it again.

I was trolling the Colordale webpage you linked and noticed the interesting pricing scheme:

Live Cover Stud Fee for Jockey Club TB Mares Only
$900 + $300 Booking (Tier 1 Solid Mares (non-dilute, single registry)
$1200 + $300 Booking (Tier 2 Colored Mares (Single Dilute, Overo, Dom White, double registry)
$2000 + $500 Booking (Tier 3- Double Dilute JC Mare)

I’ve seen other sport/color farms do things like this before. It doesn’t make sense to me. Why would you charge single and double dilute JC mare owners the most??? Isn’t that the market you’re trying to attract to get flashy sons and daughters for your stallion?

In the racing world, the “best” mares likely to produce good offspring for the stallion often get a discount, not a higher fee!

Insight?

[Simkie]

@Texarkana

I’ve seen other sport/color farms do things like this before. It doesn’t make sense to me. Why would you charge single and double dilute JC mare owners the most??? Isn’t that the market you’re trying to attract to get flashy sons and daughters for your stallion?

Guessing, but:

The pricing might be reflective on what the stallion owner thinks the foal will be worth. They think a foal out of a double dilute mare and by one of their stallions will be worth more when it hits the ground than anything else, so people who are bringing a double dilute mare to the shed should be willing to pony up (haha) more dough for the right to breed to their stallion.

It might also be a way to limit the number of “color” pedigreed colts? After all, the krazy kolor breeders might choose to go with an up and comer with even MORE color on the page than what these people are offering.

Or they’re just trying to incentivize bookings for “normal” mares because they think that’s the best fit for these stallions? (Doubtful :lol:)

The fact the BOOKING fee goes up on tier three is kinda eye rolly though. Come on. That really seems like a money grab.

eta: anyone else notice that they say Remarquez has produced 70% fillies, but if you click on the “foal statistics” the chart says 53%? How weird.

[anon6923113]

@Texarkana

OP, sorry, I’ve totally derailed your thread. But I’m going to do it again.

I was trolling the Colordale webpage you linked and noticed the interesting pricing scheme:

Live Cover Stud Fee for Jockey Club TB Mares Only
$900 + $300 Booking (Tier 1 Solid Mares (non-dilute, single registry)
$1200 + $300 Booking (Tier 2 Colored Mares (Single Dilute, Overo, Dom White, double registry)
$2000 + $500 Booking (Tier 3- Double Dilute JC Mare)

I’ve seen other sport/color farms do things like this before. It doesn’t make sense to me. Why would you charge single and double dilute JC mare owners the most??? Isn’t that the market you’re trying to attract to get flashy sons and daughters for your stallion?

In the racing world, the “best” mares likely to produce good offspring for the stallion often get a discount, not a higher fee!

Insight?

No worries on derailing the thread. I was looking for this sort of feedback, pointing out any obvious red flags about these two stallions and the farm, before making contact and investigating further.

plus, I’m glad you mentioned Xenodon again. I definitely will report back after going to see him. Probably won’t do it before fall though… kids getting back to school, etc. I agree with Beowulf, the dam side of the pedigree is really great. My major concern is conformation and how that would compliment my mare (Don’t want anything too downhill or too short in the neck). Also, temperment (crazy hot and opinionated would be a mistake with this mare… it doesn’t have to be totally ammmie friendly, but I don’t want to knowingly breed to anyone super spicy).

Good to know about Milkie being considered mediocre. Linebreeding, in addition to getting that double dilute thing, means pepotent mediocrity. I did check out Reed Hill Farm’s website… they are advertising a son of Remarquez at stud. They had video up of him moving at liberty… I don’t like what I see going on with his hind legs. So I’m crossing Remarquez off the list.

[Simkie]

Also on Remarquez page:

A true versatile Thoroughbred, Remarquez is nearly 16.1h and is the most prolific colored thoroughbred producer in the country.

Got curious. :lol:

According to the JC, Remarquez has 34 foals of racing age. Last report of mares bred was 2015, so we’re not missing any. Guaranteed Gold has 55. But he stood in Canada for at least part of his career, right? And he’s dilute, not paint, so maybe they’re not counting him. But C Spot Go has 40 JC registered foals.

Just kinda odd. Playing fast and loose with their verbiage?

@Virginia Horse Mom is Default still around? I always thought he was interesting. Might also be worth a visit?

Oh, this might also be crazy, but Big Picture stands in VA. I have a gelding by Pioneering, and he’s just SO nice. The bottom side of this guy’s pedigree is so sporty. Another one to consider?

[anon6923113]

@Simkie - not sure about Default. Limited number of offspring from what I gather, and seemed to have ended up local foxhunters. That field trip would be fun though… Tom Newton was our vet for childhood ponies, and my Mom got a crazy hot but neat TB mare from him years ago who was by a long since gone Little Hawk TB stallion, Irish Swords.

Sidenote… it’s sad how TB breeding has declined in Virginia… I remember visiting Little Hawk as a kid and seeing them show off stallions and yearlings. It was a much larger operation then, I think.

[Texarkana]

@Simkie

The pricing might be reflective on what the stallion owner thinks the foal will be worth. They think a foal out of a double dilute mare and by one of their stallions will be worth more when it hits the ground than anything else, so people who are bringing a double dilute mare to the shed should be willing to pony up (haha) more dough for the right to breed to their stallion.

You and I were thinking similarly on this part, but as a mare owner, I’d be miffed! There are so few guarantees when breeding. Even if you are genetically guaranteed color, there are a million other factors you cannot control! It seems like such a money grab, especially the increasing booking fee.

@Simkie

Oh, this might also be crazy, but Big Picture stands in VA. I have a gelding by Pioneering, and he’s just SO nice. The bottom side of this guy’s pedigree is so sporty. Another one to consider?

Ann Bonda, who is listed as standing him, used to be my vet many moons ago when I was in college and knows her horses. And of Pioneering, I worked with THIS guy when he was racing who was also nice, but tough on the track. There is a great photo floating around out there of him rearing straight up in the paddock; it got a lot of press in it’s day. Although he was a love bug in the barn.

@Virginia Horse Mom I agree the free fall of breeding activity is heartbreaking. I hope the Virginia Certified program breathes a little life back into it.

[anon6923113]

@Texarkana , Big Picture IS interesting. I’m actively derailing my own thread now - haha.

Today has been a weird lazy day with too much time spent on the internet researching horses… and this guy was hard to find info on. Ann Bonda’s practice has a Facebook page though, and I found two photos of him buried on it. Not great shots in terms of evaluating confirmation… but he looks lovely and athletic. Very cool pedigree on the dam side, as well as seeing a mare like Terlingua that close up.

So after starting a thread about two random colored TB stallions… it seems much more sensible to seriously follow up on Xenodon and Big Picture. I’ll post if/when I get more information on either.

[Simkie]

Yay! I’d love to hear about Big Picture, VHM! I hope you’re able to connect with his people :yes:

And @Texarkana that’s fabulous :lol: Well, he was athletic, huh? I knew a guy who worked with Pioneering at Overbook and often claimed his get. Said they were super sound and workmanlike.

[skydy]

I’d not choose either of the “color” stallions and would be warned off any SO that uses photos of their stallion standing and at liberty in a muddy paddock as advertisement for stallion services. If they can’t be bothered to take decent photos I’d be very concerned about the possibility that they are cutting corners on the more difficult aspects of standing a stallion.

My two cents, which is worth what you paid for it.

[anon6923113]

^ Entirely fair. The site doesn’t create a good impression, but then I thought maybe I’m being unfairly prejudiced in terms of immediately writing them off because of the color thing, and assuming the worst. And if they were decent options locally, it would be a shame to not investigate. Goldmaker seems to be producing some really nice foals, and he obviously was originally bred for color. But he has a different sire line, and only one line to Milkie.