3-way rigging vs. rear cinch?

[Pocket_Pony]

Ok, another question!

I’ve tried a couple saddles now that have 3-way rigging (extra-long latigos that you can run through a rear-cinch ring and then through the front cinch ring), and I’ve also tried saddles with a rear cinch. I have to say I prefer the 3-way rigging and find it stabilizes the saddle moreso than the rear cinch does.

I don’t see that a lot of saddles have this option - any reason why not? Any reason to steer clear? I remember someone posted about their saddle built on a Laporte tree and the idea is similar with the cable rigging between the front and rear of the tree - seems like this is similar to the 3-way but the difference is you’d use one cinch position and the rigging can “slide” to the right spot (then you’d put in some sort of stopper so it doesn’t actually move around while riding).

[Beverley]

I rode saddles in South Africa with that kind of rigging and they were fine. I think it boils down to a matter of personal preference. I use a 7/8 or 3/4 with rear cinch. Just what I’m used to and grew up with. But I might actually buy one of those S. African saddles one of these days- ultra comfy and in particular non-horsey hubby loved them. A saddle a non-horsey guy likes sitting in for 6 hours a day has some merit!

[Silk]

i think it sort of depends on the horse’s conformation. i have a 7/8 rigging on both my western saddles - the one that fits the pony really could use the 3/4 rigging based on the fact that the 7/8 placed the cinch a bit too close to his little underarms ;0 on the qh, the 7/8 rigging is fine. i sometimes use the backcinch on the qh…never tried on the pony, as he is an english trained pony and somehow i think tha back rigging just might act as a bucking strap

The 3-way i saw allows you to use either the 7/8 position or the 3/4 position, but did not show it using both at the same time.

[nhhaflngr]

like this?

http://tuckersaddlery.com/rigging.shtml

I use what Tucker calls “enduro rigging”, I believe it is about the same as 3 way rigging. Once used to it, I like it. I will say, I have to be careful not to rig cinch/girth too far back to begin with or saddle will slide forward when doing groundwork warm up excercises. (And that could be more because I ride a barrel shaped haflinger with flat withers!). Saddle never moves once I am in it.
I bought the saddle used, so did not have a choice in rigging, but am happy with it.

–nhhaflngr

[NoSuchPerson]

What I know as “3-way rigging” is this:

http://lib.store.yahoo.net/lib/thesaddleshop/rigging-3way.jpg

This has nothing to do with using a rear conch or not. If you choose to place the latigo in the first ring for a full rigged saddle, you would use a rear cinch. If you choose one of the other positions, you wouldn’t necessarily (but could) use a rear cinch.

The thing you describe, where you run the latigo through the rear ring, is what I associate with a center fire rig.

Your horse’s conformation and the location of his natural girth groove is what determines which of these rigging options is the best choice.

I just did a little googling and found this page, which provides a pretty good explanation:

http://juliegoodnight.com/questionsNew.php?id=307

[aktill]

Careful on using the centerfire term. For some reason it’s come into common usage to describe any saddle used with a single cinch, but it’s really rigging POSITION and type.

That is to say, a double rigged saddle run with a long latigo and a single cinch is technically not centerfire. This is a double rigged saddle run with a single latigo, rigged at 7/8 (or maybe full) position: http://pflus.com/images/uploads/How%20to%20Cinch%20the%20Center%20Fire%20Rigging.jpg

A single cinch ring with a single cinch rigged in the middle of the seat is centerfire (ie) top saddle here, if you can picture the rigging under the stirrup: http://www.mcgowansaddlery.com/Saddles.php

YMMV.

[Pocket_Pony]

So if I wanted to search for that type of rigging, if it isn’t 3-way, and isn’t center fire (which I understood to be what Adam posted - more in the middle of the saddle), what term would I look for? On Julie Goodnight’s page she calls it “trail rigging” or “y rigging”.

I wonder why more saddles don’t have it? Is it just not traditional? It seems to me to be a logical type of rigging system that better balances the saddle, but am I missing something?

[aktill]

Any double rigged saddle can be rigged with an extra long latigo, so in theory you can choose any saddle and just replace the latigo (or have a saddler do it).

It’s not as popular because 95% of people don’t understand the difference between that and just leaving off the back cinch.

[Pocket_Pony]

Do you think if you want to have an extra long latigo and do it that way that the back D has to be properly angled?

[NoSuchPerson]

[QUOTE=aktill;7197921]
It’s not as popular because 95% of people don’t understand the difference between that and just leaving off the back cinch.[/QUOTE]

I’m a bit more charitable. I’d say it’s more that most people have never even seen a saddle rigged that way. I know I hadn’t until I was forced by a hard-to-fit mule to do a lot of research into saddle fit and saddle types. And without the benefit of the internet, I still would never have seen a saddle rigged like that.

[aktill]

[QUOTE=NoSuchPerson;7197965]
I’m a bit more charitable. I’d say it’s more that most people have never even seen a saddle rigged that way. I know I hadn’t until I was forced by a hard-to-fit mule to do a lot of research into saddle fit and saddle types. And without the benefit of the internet, I still would never have seen a saddle rigged like that.[/QUOTE]

A fair comment, for sure.

That said, Pocket Pony is there a reason you don’t want to run a back cinch? I like having both, done up equally, so I don’t need as much tension on the front cinch. I replaced my back cinch with a latigo and run alpaca cinches front and rear.

I’ve never understood why a lot of people just leave the rear’s off or have them dangling a foot below the horse, then try to cut the horse in half with the front one to keep the saddle from slipping. I normally hear some comment about needing to be able to gut hook the horse with their spurs and the rear cinch getting in the way (as if the horse can’t feel you even if you do touch them on the rear cinch).

I’d love to be able to run true centerfire, but conformationally that just wouldn’t work with my guy.

[aktill]

[QUOTE=Pocket Pony;7197942]
Do you think if you want to have an extra long latigo and do it that way that the back D has to be properly angled?[/QUOTE]

It would help. The leather will creep to allow it, but that might cause cosmetic issues.

[NoSuchPerson]

[QUOTE=aktill;7198009]
I like having both, done up equally, so I don’t need as much tension on the front cinch. I replaced my back cinch with a latigo and run alpaca cinches front and rear.[/QUOTE]

There was a really nice article a number of years ago in one of the mule magazines about how, by rigging your saddle as you describe, you can eliminate the need for a crupper/britchen. If you put the rear cinch just behind the largest point of the belly, it will provide an anchor point for the saddle and keep it from sliding forward.

[KSquared]

So I have a question. I just got a beautiful saddle (A King series Trekker endurance saddle) and I would like to do the 3 way rigging for my Paso mare. How would I go about doing that kind of rigging for that kind of saddle? Or does this kind of saddle need that kind of rigging?

Here is a picture for reference.

http://images.hayneedle.com/mgen/master:JTIN1630.jpg?is=1200,1200,0xffffff

[HorsesinHaiti]

Tony Pritchett from Sycamore Creek demonstrating “V-rigging” on a CTK saddle, which seems to be about the rigging style that the OP is describing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P-xAvzAygSE

These are the traditional Paso Fino saddles and rigging from Columbia. I find the system works wonderfully on my pony. K-Squared, your saddle’s design looks very much like the CTKs from Sycamore Creek, no wonder if yours is a Paso saddle. The video shows how to rig it. Mine came with nylon ‘latigos’ of fairly standard nylon web, available all over. I don’t pull it free quickly to avoid hot goosing the pony, but that would be a bad habit in any case. I do prefer leather over nylon. How long you need depends on your cinch length, saddle style, and the horse’s barrel size.

My pony is only 12.2, so a standard horse latigo on each side is plenty long enough to v-rig him.

[Pocket_Pony]

[QUOTE=aktill;7198009]

That said, Pocket Pony is there a reason you don’t want to run a back cinch? [/QUOTE]

Not necessarily, except that I would think that connecting one cinch to two points on the saddle is better at stabilizing and equalizing pressure than two cinches holding in two different locations. Just an intuitive thought, don’t know if there’s any science behind it.

[froglander]

Sorry to pull up an old thread, but I am wanting to try this with my saddle and am unsure how long of a latigo I should look for?

I ordered the DVD from aboutthehorse.com about saddle fitting and I’m about halfway through at this point (just haven’t had time to sit and watch it) and he said that doing the rigging like what Pocket Pony is describing is as effective as using a rear cinch?

[katarine]

It depends on how large your horse is around their heart-girth.

One thing to note- you want a shorter girth than ‘normal’ or you won’t get a good pull with the three way rigging. If the girth comes all the way up on both sides to, say, 5" of the saddle, that’s not enough ‘drop’ for the latigo running from the rear dee, to engage- AKA your saddle will be loose!

[froglander]

My current cinch when tightened is about a foot or so belong the cinch ring? He’s not a big horse by any means, a 15h mustang that finally is around 1000lbs on a weight tape.

Guess I’m just going to have to measure

[aktill]

[QUOTE=katarine;7430693]
It depends on how large your horse is around their heart-girth.

One thing to note- you want a shorter girth than ‘normal’ or you won’t get a good pull with the three way rigging. If the girth comes all the way up on both sides to, say, 5" of the saddle, that’s not enough ‘drop’ for the latigo running from the rear dee, to engage- AKA your saddle will be loose![/QUOTE]

That will only apply if you keep the cinch in the same position it would be for a normal front cinch. If you move the cinch to a position between the latigo tie points, the pull on both will be equal.

Running a cinch that’s too short has it’s own drawbacks, like a short dressage girth does. Placing buckles too low so they’re on the most curved section of the barrel can cause them to pinch or rub.

Really depends on the horse, in the end.