I’ve always thought their saddles were pretty. Got to sit in one years ago on a saddle stand. They use the same Steele Equi-fit trees although they shorten the bar at the front and I think the leather of the skirts doesn’t really go in front of the tree much at all either so it’s meant to sit right behind the shoulder? Their rigging is interesting though in how the back D for the cinch is kind if in the middle?
[QUOTE=Pocket Pony;7439091]
What is yours? [/QUOTE]
The Wade I’m riding right now is rigged full double D, as in the front rigging ring is at what most would call full position:
http://www.easphotography.com/Tindur/IMG_2925.JPG
The new one I’m working on (this is very much still a work in progress) is somewhere around 5/8 in a plate rig:
http://www.easphotography.com/Tindur/TempRigPosition.JPG
There are a few. Off the top of my head:
http://vaquerosaddles.com/index.php/choices
http://vaquerosaddles.com/images/choices/RIGGING.jpg
or
[QUOTE=froglander;7439117]
What about how the JJ Maxwell saddles do their rigging?
http://jjmaxwell.com/rigging-photos/step5.jpg
http://jjmaxwell.com/saddle-photos/weatherly2_large.jpg[/QUOTE]
Because one anchor point is at full and the other just behind centerfire, their rig essentially acts like a 5/8 or so position single rig.
[QUOTE=froglander;7439117]
What about how the JJ Maxwell saddles do their rigging?
http://jjmaxwell.com/rigging-photos/step5.jpg
http://jjmaxwell.com/saddle-photos/weatherly2_large.jpg[/QUOTE]
Notice where the latigo is attached 
Curious, would a 5/8 rigging by using a front and rear D-ring give you more adjustability than a plate rigging? Or is that not really needed?
In theory, yes, because you can independently tension both sides of the strap. You need to make sure you’re doing it the same way each time though, and the same on both sides of the horse, or you’ll pull the saddle off square.
Good point, hadn’t thought about that, thanks 
Didn’t have time to do much other than clean his stall and trim his front feet last night so looking forward to playing around with my saddle some more tonight
[QUOTE=katarine;7439407]
Notice where the latigo is attached ;)[/QUOTE]
I saw that. I sent them an email to ask them about their rigging system - will report back when I have an answer.
To go a little bit off topic, but it sill relates to rigging as they have a similar Y system…anyone have anything to say about Tucker saddles? I see they have a mule trail saddle and a gaited trail saddle (from playing with the Steele trees, it appears that any type of QH bars just have too much rock for Mac).
[QUOTE=aktill;7439398]
The Wade I’m riding right now is rigged full double D, as in the front rigging ring is at what most would call full position:
http://www.easphotography.com/Tindur/IMG_2925.JPG
http://www.mcgowansaddlery.com/Saddles.html[/QUOTE]
Aktill - I have a question about the placement of your saddle, which I noticed the first time you posted that picture. Is where it sits on Tindur’s back where you usually ride? I ask because it seems a bit far back and I’m just wondering about the balance point. If you go to the McGowan saddlery home page from the link you posted above, there’s a picture of a boy riding and his saddle looks like it is sitting on the horse’s shoulders. I’m just wondering about all the various placements that people have/use. From my h/j days long ago I’m used to seeing people put saddles way up on the shoulders, but I also know that’s not where it is supposed to go.
And going back to something you said a couple pages ago about Dave G.'s saddling video . . . does he propose that the flare of the tree should float over the shoulders?
[QUOTE=Pocket Pony;7439632]
I saw that. I sent them an email to ask them about their rigging system - will report back when I have an answer.
To go a little bit off topic, but it sill relates to rigging as they have a similar Y system…anyone have anything to say about Tucker saddles? I see they have a mule trail saddle and a gaited trail saddle (from playing with the Steele trees, it appears that any type of QH bars just have too much rock for Mac).[/QUOTE]
I hate a Tucker for ‘real riding’ you are too far from the horse to feel a thing.
For trail riding, fine- but if you want to feel the horse, no way.
Ok, I have a few things to report!
I got a reply about the rigging on the JJ Maxwell saddle:
“The other rigging that you are talking about is usually is a center fire rig. The front rigging D and the back are at an angle, pointing toward each other, and it puts the cinch back further. Problem with this type of rigging is it has a tendency to pull the saddle forward. With our rigging the front D is still going straight down like a normal rigging, the back D is not as far back because if it were it would have the same effect as a center fire. The 2 rings need to be closer together to stop the angling effect. Our rigging lessens the pressure in the front and spreads the cinch pressure over the side of the saddle and it does a decent job of holding the back of the saddle down. We like the rear rigging D to be used as the keeper because it less bulky in front, where your leg might be.”
Thanks for the feedback on the Tucker - their seats look so cushy that I wondered about that.
So here’s info on my ride today and brief history of my saddle. I’d been having the hardest time finding a pad that I liked because every pad seemed to slide back under the saddle. Then I got a Toklat woolback that I had posted about a while back and that solved the problem 100%, I was so happy! But then, thinking it wasn’t enough, I got a Thinline pad because I’m a sucker for a “therapeutic” pad (even though Mac’s sweat marks look good). I think I rode with it once before I went on vacation. I went on vacation, we had a lot of rain when I got back and so I just got back to riding a few days ago. I put on my woolback pad and then the Thinline pad over it and had three rides. Again I was back to the either the pads slipping back, or the saddle slipping forward. Major frustration because I thought I had this problem solved. I would readjust the saddle once before I got on, and then I’d have to get off once mid-ride to readjust again. AAARRRGGGHHHHH!!! Then it dawned on me that the Thinline is sort of slippery and my saddle looked like it had been moving FORWARD, which hadn’t been an issue in the past - in the past, the pads moved backward. I of course went into panic mode.
So today I went back to the woolback pad ONLY and it was perfect. No slipping of the saddle or of the pad - everything was in place where I put it, I didn’t have to do any readjusting before or during the ride, and Mac had some lovely FDO trotting and good transitions.
It is funny because sometimes I think he knows ahead of time what saddle I’m going to use on him - dressage or western - and his behavior while grooming and tacking up is different depending on the saddle. With the western saddle, he’s more mellow and stands quietly. And after we’re done, he’s relaxed and he drops and just chills out. And when we ride he stretches down and rounds his back nicely. So while I do think the saddle is a bit wide at the shoulder, the angles are right (per my measurements) and he’s happy with it. Sigh. I think this is the most frustrating thing in the world.
froglander, have you considered trying pads other than the 5 Star? I liked the dense wool felt aspect of it, but the pad was one that didn’t work for Mac and this saddle. Here’s a link to the woolback pads (I just got regular, not triple thick - I might get another one that has insert pocket but cut up my Thinline and put it in there instead of ultra cell):
http://www.ridingwarehouse.com/searchresults.html?search=products&searchtext=woolback&x=13&y=8
Glad to hear you figured something out with your saddle pad!
Interesting info from JJ Maxwell, thank you for sharing!
[QUOTE=Pocket Pony;7439642]
Aktill - I have a question about the placement of your saddle, which I noticed the first time you posted that picture. Is where it sits on Tindur’s back where you usually ride? I ask because it seems a bit far back and I’m just wondering about the balance point. [/QUOTE]
The saddle sits just behind his scapula. Tindur is a gaited horse with big shoulders, and quite a range of motion in those shoulders.
Here’s a angled shot of his saddle fitting zone:
http://www.easphotography.com/Tindur/Nikkel_Tracing_Nov2013/IMG_2061.JPG
The front lateral line is just behind his scapular cartilage.
If I try to place the saddle right smack behind the shoulder at rest, his movement will tend to knock it back a fair amount.
I’d love to move the saddle up in theory, but it’s a case of a small saddle fitting zone on a 14hh horse. I personally don’t agree with placing a saddle over the scapula.
Tindur still rounds up and collects well, and will reach out in his stride with no issue. I’m happy with how he’s going, and I’ve never seen a sore spot, white hair or pinned ear.
I fit mine like so:
http://www.rodnikkel.com/content/tree-and-saddle-fitting/proper-position-of-a-western-saddle/
[QUOTE=Pocket Pony;7439642]
If you go to the McGowan saddlery home page from the link you posted above, there’s a picture of a boy riding and his saddle looks like it is sitting on the horse’s shoulders. [/QUOTE]
There’s a few of them like that, if you look at the saddle page. That’s too far forward in my book, like a photo I’ll link to below.
[QUOTE=Pocket Pony;7439642]
I’m just wondering about all the various placements that people have/use. From my h/j days long ago I’m used to seeing people put saddles way up on the shoulders, but I also know that’s not where it is supposed to go. [/QUOTE]
While they may have actually been placed up over the shoulder blade, jump saddles often appear further forward than they actually are because of the forward cut flaps. The panels should sit at the same place a dressage saddle would fit, but the cut of the flap will make it seem like the whole saddle is further forward.
[QUOTE=Pocket Pony;7439642]
And going back to something you said a couple pages ago about Dave G.'s saddling video . . . does he propose that the flare of the tree should float over the shoulders?[/QUOTE]
Yes he does. Here’s a photo of one of his endurance saddles on a horse I used to own. The first bit of bar/fork is over the rear extent of the scapular cartilage:
http://www.easphotography.com/Horses/General/RiggingEnduranceSaddle.jpg
I wouldn’t personally place a saddle this far forward anymore. The gain in being closer to the center of motion isn’t worth it, in my mind. To each their own though.
I stumbled across http://www.rodnikkel.com awhile back and have lost stretches of time wandering from one article to another.
I guess it really just comes down to listening to your horse and going with what keeps them happy, willing, and free from soreness?
I’ve been pondering this saddle pad http://www.ricottisaddle.com/saddle_pad.htm, maybe it’d shim the front enough to help things stay where they belong. Cody seems more willing to go forward with the saddle /not/ on top of his shoulder, at least from what I’ve experienced so far, but I think I need something to stop it from sitting down in the hollows behind his shoulders.
Friedlander I have a friend who had a Ricotta pad and she LOVED it. I don’t know how generous their trial policy is. I had contacted them when I was pad shopping but they didn’t think it would work for Mac because the saddle wasn’t sitting down on him in front.
