Today I went into my horses pasture to check their water and see if the horses are all okay. I was petting my mustang pony and she got annoyed so I left but when I started walking away she started trying to bite so I gently nudged her face away because that usually stops her but she held her head high her ears were slightly back and she started trotting to me with her mouth open trying to bite. I got scared she would injure me so I threw myself through the fence out of impulse. I had no flag or anything to direct her away. I have been training with positive reinforcement and it has been working so well. This could be a learned habit because a couple times my timing has been off but I’m usually great with timing. I’m also thinking it could be hormones but she has done this once before. Like a month before this. I may have startled her too because I moved quickly. I just want other opinions on why she’s like this. Btw she has always been a biter no matter what I do to correct but it’s getting worse. She will also bite when she doesn’t get her way. What do I do to keep her from seriously hurting me. I also don’t think she’s in any pain but to be sure I’m trying to get a vet out
I’m glad you are okay. Please find a local trainer. There is so much here where expert eyes in person are needed. It’s very hard to give advice for a situation like this without having a strong understanding of your knowledge and skill set, the horse, your set up, etc.
Charging is not okay. Biting is not okay. Three year olds can be tricky. A good local trainer can help you determine whether this is something where a few sessions of good timing and education can address or if you’ve got a more complex challenge at hand.
A horse learning to use their mouth to express frustration is unsafe. They can easily permanently disfigure a person even without meaning true malice if they think it’s okay to communicate with their mouth.
You may need professional help…but here are my thoughts.
It is called a whip. In no uncertain terms you need to tell this horse, “your space, my space.” And “I can go into your space, but you cannot go into mine.”
This day and age, the word “whip” seems to carry a negative connotation. Anyone who has seen horse “discuss” who claims what hay pile in the field, has observed that the discussioin starts small…pinned ears…then escalates to perhaps a kick or a bite. There is no comparison with what a 150+/- lb woman with a 1/4 inch stick can inflict on a horse vs a 1000 horse kicking out to “claim their space.”
I have found the 2-3 years to be fairly compliant. When they turn 5 is when they become know-it-all teenagers and develop opinions. I suggest nipping this soon…in no uncertain terms.
A horse that made you run for your safety need to know that this behavior will NOT be tolerated and think that it will have a near death experience if it ever tries such a behavior.
I cannot emphasize this enough.
Reinforcing this point here. I just finished up the night shift. The five year old wasn’t being aware of and respectful of the senior citizen who was clearly approaching with energy to move him away from the desired hay pile. There is ample hay but oldie wanted the prime spot. He approached with energy, gave one step of an ear pin, and the next he snapped the youngster in the butt with his teeth hard enough to hear it a paddock over and take a little coat with it. The young guy hustled off but wasn’t bothered, no emotional damage, no trust broken. He made a calculated decision to ignore an elder and took the correction and moved on with life. A perfectly timed single crack of the end of a whip might come close to that bite but I doubt it. A horse learning they can treat you like a horse is the most dangerous situation you can be in and it’s one that needs an immediate game plan.
I have tried to do this before it worsened her behavior she doesn’t respond well to corrections like that at all.
You need outside help. There’s nothing wrong with that but trying to fix a horse that doesn’t have fundamental respect through positive reinforcement and now she’s open mouth chasing you is the biggest red flag you’ll get before she lands you in the hospital
It wasn’t a strong enough correction. Like others have suggested - you are in over your head here and need some experienced help. No shame to admit it and this needs to be nipped in the bud before it gets out of hand and the horse thinks it is on the top of the pyramid. Your horse will still love you when it learns it is lower than you in the pecking order. And you will be safer and horse will be easier to handle.
I have a friend with a horse like this. It has her number and she runs when he is aggressive. One day she looked at him wrong while she was feeding him and he hauled off and double barreled her. She had bruises where his feet connected and bruises where she got thrown into the wall. I told her if my horse did that I would not feed it.
I also told her she needed help. “Noooo, I can’t afford training”. I said she could do it herself but the behavior was so ingrained that she could easily get hurt trying to fix it. “No I don’t want to do that”. So I told her not to tell me when he hurt her again.
The sooner this gets fixed the easier it will be to fix it. Denial never fixed anything.
Then you did not come thru with “conviction”…like the Tasmanian Devil telling this horse, “You will DIE if you pull that sh**t on me.” It is not the physical but the intent of what you are doing.
Okay I will see what I can do for a trainer. I do not have many good trainers around my area and I can’t travel too far if I cant do anything about that I will just give her to someone with more experience than me and get a horse who will be a better fit for me. As much as I don’t want to get rid of her I’ll do it for the safety of her and i
You need to make yourself bigger and meaner than she is. Letting her get her way is encouraging negative behaviour on her part. I know CTJMs (Come To Jesus Meetings) are frowned upon now, but sometimes as long as they are fair and are short and to the point, it gets the point across.
Yup. A Come To Jesus Meeting is required for this one. Sounds like she’s decided who is running the show and it isn’t the OP. I hate coming down hard on a horse, but this horse sounds like she needs it if she’s going to be safe to be around. OP take care and get tough. Life is too short to not get tough on one horse. You will likely be doing yourself and them a favor long term.
I agree and one has to be judicious where to apply the CTJM as there are busybodies everywhere…My POV is that my safety is more important than one hair on a 1000 lb horse that can potentially kill you.
Agree completely! Make it harsh but fair. I’ve watched a fair bit of herd dynamics, and the old herd boss mares would be harsh, but quick. The 3 second rule is pretty accurate for timing.
Definitely make her think she’s going to die the next time she pulls this—but only for 3 seconds, unless she refuses to back off. No hitting on the head, but anywhere else is fair game. Plus screaming at her and moving toward her aggressively. But you have to respond immediately—when she’s coming at you. If you wait to react then the feedback to the bad behavior doesn’t happen.
Make sure you bring a lunge whip every time you go into the field because you’ll sabotage your efforts if you don’t have it when she pulls this crap.
I’m against hurting horses in general, but if it comes down to my safety, I would definitely use whatever I had at hand to make a strong impression.
This. It is HARD to admit you’re in over your head - but it’s one of the bravest things you can do as a horse person.
This means you didn’t apply your correction at the right time in the right way to get the message across. This isn’t a skill that you learn on the internet with a horse that has won the spot above you in the herd. Also, consistency is key. Once CTJ wont fix this, she needs clear, consistent boundaries.
OP, I feel for you. You don’t need to “coerce” or “force” your horse to cooperate with you. You need to set boundaries with her that she understands. Have you watched a herd boss shove the underling off a hay pile or the gate? Usually with an ear pin, then a head toss and snap, and then a kick, or bite and chase GTFO or I will kill you for 2 seconds? And then right back to hanging out happily? That’s the leadership your mare needs.
You need a pro. A good one, not an online influencer or yank-and-spank ‘trainer’. A colt breaker or young horse starter that has a record of producing horses that seem happy to work and are easily handled by owners like yourself is who I would look for. Discipline doesn’t matter, but these are easier to find in the western world if you’re in NA.
Responding to myself but I really like early Warwick Schiller as a resource that’s free online. He’s a bit woo-woo for me now but his old stuff like the Andalusian stallion series is really good. OP you still need IRL help, but this is a start.
Avoid Clinton Anderson, IMO.
I had no flag or anything to direct her away
You should never get near her without something in your hand, a crop, for influence. Not always to use physically on the horse - you can smack your pant leg with it - like guys also use their hats. So wear a hat also. It’s not a beater tool it’s an influencer. It’s a listen up! I’m in charge tool.
I have handled horses that at the first correction will double down instead of back off, and you needed to know where to move to not get your head kicked off. Please be careful.
Any treat feeding is DONE for the next year at least. Food areas are entirely claimed by you until you are a safe distance away - this applies to all horses in the field. Gates are claimed. Any crowding is dealt with before they’re close enough to kick.
This is VERY DANGEROUS. Even while attempting a correction you can still get VERY HURT if she doubles down and calls your bluff.
This is life or death for both of you. Treat it accordingly.
Edited to add: my current 3 year old pony mare would ABSOLUTELY escalate to this around food if I hadn’t dealt with it. It’s an ongoing thing with her - every single day she’s required to get back 15’ or more while I put her grain down and then I stand there for 10 seconds while she must remain motionless. If she takes even one step towards me she gets pushed back and the 10 second timer starts over.
Hard to know people’s experiences on here, but it sounds like you need a good trainer to teach you how to read signals and body language.
That’s a really dangerous habit you are teaching the pony.
I’d stop petting horses in the pasture, carry a long whip, then demand that I’m given a personal bubble space of whatever is comfortable for you. Then practice keeping the horses out of your space.
Biting horses usually are missing connection and quit once you start engaging with their muzzle. But you have to be present and connecting with them. Otherwise you will get bitten.
The thing is if I tell her to get out of my space she will just get more into my space and get meaner. She does this to my senior pony and she did it to an old boarders horses. She isn’t scared of flags whips or anything like that really. My mom who has more experience than me will be helping me since all the trainers within 200 miles of me are all bad and have produced shut down scared horses because all they do is beat their horses into submission. The only good trainers charge you more that 5000 a month around my area and I just can’t afford it with vet bills and feed every month. My mom used to train horses that were like this
