350 days-no bag? UPDATE post 83

[mpsbarnmanager]

My maiden mare is 350 days today and goes between no bag and a little swelling, but nothing major. I am starting to worry that this is not normal. One of the vets is coming out on wednesday, I plan to talk to him about domperidone and weather that would be worth the risk. This vet is actually married to a friend I used to board with and I was telling them I was getting worried about the possibility of fescue poisoning. Even though we planted a mix with some endophyte free fescue 3 years ago (before I planned on breeding), one of the other vets in the practice told me I should pull her off the grass completely.

I tried putting her in the ring with lots of hay, but she got so riled up, even with her buddy on the other side of the riding ring fence, I decided to put her back out. My friend’s husband (the vet) said it probably is not causing any problem, as did my old BM, who I trust, so… Not sure who to listen to, and getting worried the longer she goes.

The vet that has really been holding my hand and seeing my mare in the last 2 years is also in this practice, and she said it should be fine as well. She comes out on the 16th, and I am really hoping to have a healthy foal on the ground by then! Guess I just need some hand holding here… :eek:

[everafterfarm]

My vet always says the only stupid question/concern is the one not asked! Sounds like you have been doing lots of asking.

As someone who has had to deal with 8 maidens, EVERYTHING and ANYTHING is “normal”. She can happily deliver with no bag. Mine have been everything from textbook foaling, to surprise there is a foal in the pasture with NO clues she was even very close and just about all the other stuff in between.

I’m all for having the vet look at a term mare if I am worried even if it’s just for my piece of mind, but really anything goes with a maiden. Good Luck!

[Somermist]

It’s ok, breeding is a tough business! It sounds like you are in good communication with your vet. I am sure you know 340 days is just an average. What does the mare look like generally? Eating, drinking, etc? Your mare can develop a bag in a very short time. Is there any fluid at all, even clear if you check her?

Maidens with no history can drive you nuts! If everything else seems normal, she is most likely just taking her time. That said, I would follow your vets advice, they know you and the mare.

Best of luck.

[jbonifas]

My mare held on to hers for 366 days. She foaled 1 year from the date of last cover and this is her 4th foal. You just never know what they are going to do. She never developes much of a bag but does make plenty of milk for her babies. This one looks like a granddaddy long legs…all legs and a head but healthy.

[alliekat]

If the mare has been eating any fescue at all, I would be worried with no bag development. Even though you planted endophyte free fescue, I have always heard that it only takes a few years for the endophyte infested fescue to come back. We have just moved to a new farm and I am scared of anything that was green that was growing in the winter. I am not trying to worry you ( I do enough of that about my own mares for both of us). but want to give you a heads up. My mare is on her 3rd foal so I have something to compare this years pregnancy to. I know it is much harder when you are dealing with a maiden to determine what is normal for them since they are all so different. Good luck.

[Equine_Reproduction]

@mpsbarnmanager;6246320

My maiden mare is 350 days today and goes between no bag and a little swelling, but nothing major.

She’s not considered “late” until 370 days. Indeed, more mares go OVER 370 days than foal around 340 days. There is no such thing as a “due date” in the mare. 340 days is just an average of averages. The foal is what determines gestational length ;).

I am starting to worry that this is not normal.

TOTALLY normal. ONe thing to be conscious of, however, is if she has been exposed to fescue. If not, I wouldn’t worry at all.

One of the vets is coming out on wednesday, I plan to talk to him about domperidone and weather that would be worth the risk. This vet is actually married to a friend I used to board with and I was telling them I was getting worried about the possibility of fescue poisoning. Even though we planted a mix with some endophyte free fescue 3 years ago (before I planned on breeding), one of the other vets in the practice told me I should pull her off the grass completely.

Be aware that domperidone comes with it’s own problems. Foals born of mares that have been on domeperidone have a much higher incidence of failure of passive transfer. So, if you choose to go that route, be sure you have some colostrum from another mare that had good IgG’s on her foals or a few bottles of Seramune or some other similar product available.

I wouldn’t worry too much. Just be prepared! Good luck!

[mpsbarnmanager]

Thanks everyone! ![]( guess I am just being a paranoid newbie, I appreciate all the replies! She has been exposed to fescue, but it is supposedly endophyte free. Now I am getting concerned with her not bagging up and psyching myself out thinking that shes not bagged up because the fescue is contamiated, and wondering if the placenta is thickened, what if she has no colostrum/milk, and so on… Aaagghh! Probably everything is fine, like Kathy and others pointed out, I know the 340 days is just an guideline, it’s just soo hard to wait!!!

Here is what her udder was last night:
http://i44.tinypic.com/2s831h5.jpg)"][IMG]http://i44.tinypic.com/2s831h5.jpg)

Here she is on April 4: http://i41.tinypic.com/2ry6p1d.jpg)"][IMG]http://i41.tinypic.com/2ry6p1d.jpg)

And here is a belly pic from this am: [IMG]http://i43.tinypic.com/s2shao.jpg)

Thanks again for the replies!

[mpsbarnmanager]

[QUOTE=Equine Reproduction;6247199]
\ be sure you have some colostrum from another mare that had good IgG’s on her foals or a few bottles of Seramune or some other similar product available.

I wouldn’t worry too much. Just be prepared! Good luck![/QUOTE]

Thanks! Hopefully I can get the bottle that Hilltop posted about! But if not then I’m sure my vet can get some. The colostrum will be trickier but doable. Totally better safe than sorry! Thanks!

[dianehalpin]

I have a bottle of colostrum in my freezer, though it’s several years old. Maybe someone can let me know if it’s still good. We’re in Northern Virginia.
Best of luck foaling. I’m sure it’ll be soon, or at least sooner or later!

Diane Halpin (703) 759-5594 if you need to reach me quickly.

[Cindy_s_Warmbloods]

You are 100% sure she is in foal? She doesn’t look huge but not surprising with maidens but thought I would ask anyhow and she also doesn’t look dropped/ready either. So my guess is you might have a bit of a wait. I had a maiden that went 356 days for me, she literally had a minute amount of filling in her udder and then within 2hrs one night it filled completely and she foaled the next day. She will probably just test your patience, good luck!

[mpsbarnmanager]

Thanks Diane!

Cindy, yes, she is defiantly in foal, vet checked foal’s Hb when she was out march 5, another vet is out tomorrow so I will have him check again, I see her belly move a little bit, but never seen huge movements. Hope all is well in there!!

[Sugarbrook]

I just had a customers super fancy pony show mare foal at my farm. She had such a tiny little bag that at the time she foaled it was as tiny as my hand all curled up (and I am little and so is my hand). It was tense and when I squeezed it I got some milk that was sweet and sticky. This little bag did not change at all and then the foal was born an hour later. Those tiny little nipples served this foal well. Within a day it was a normal bag.

[Cindy_s_Warmbloods]

Good luck mpsbarnmanager, I hope all is well and you have your foal soon! Keep us posted on what the vet tomorrow says. I have never heard of anyone hearing a foals heartbeat and didn’t even know it was possible, but hope your vet was right and everything is good!

[can_t_re]

I’m with alliekat, I’d be worried your pastures are no longer endophyte free. I would pull her off the pasture and be sure to be present for the foaling. Can you put her buddy in the ring with her?
I hope everything goes smoothly.

[mpsbarnmanager]

Vet just came out, he also commented that she really didn’t even look pregnant unless you looked from the front. He looked at her udder, agreed there is clearly no development, and said he wouldn’t worry too much, said he saw a bunch of mares last year go past a year for some reason. He asked about if she was eating fescue and I told him yes, some, but supposed to be E free, asked him should I pull her off it. He said at this point he really didn’t think it would make a difference. He said if it is infected, it will probably cause prolonged gestation and a thicker sac.

He said it might be twice the thickness of a normal placenta, so I asked if it would be too thick for the foal to break and suffocate the foal. He said most likely not, he has never seen that happen (though it obviously happens sometimes).

Went over redbag procedure (said he has never seen one of those either) too.

I asked him about domperidone since she has NO bag and he said he would wait because she could leak out all her colostrum and then I could possibly end up needing a plasma transfusion. Then I asked about the Serimmune, and he said that mama’s colostrum is best of course, but it would be a good idea to have a bottle in case.

He said pretty much not to worry about it, she will probably be fine, just keep an eye one her, etc… Also said a mare at his farm had no bag at all either, and she foaled all on her own and surprised them! He also said she had no problem with milk coming in, so that is encouraging. He said that when she foals, the oxytocin release might encourage her milk to come in, too.

So there is the update! Thanks everyone!

[JB]

Your vet seems to be too nonchalant about the fescue possibility for my comfort :no:

he also doesn’t appear to be well-versed on this stuff. There is NO need to head straight to plasma. If she leaks all her colostrum (and you CAN decrease the dose of domperidone if she starts streaming) then you give the foal tested colostrum - cheaper and safer than plasma.

No, she’s not in a timeframe in which things are alarming. Yet. Yes, some mares produce no milk until they foal. Yes, fescue issues are still a possibility. I just don’t like how ho-hum he seems about this :\

You can have your pasture tested for infected fescue.

[Laurierace]

Did he check to see if she was in fact pregnant? My gelding looks like he is late term in his pregnancy as well! I agree that he seems a little too chill about the whole thing. How can a vet never have a red bag? And the bag can absolutely be too thick for the foal to break even in a normal pregnancy which is why you attend the foalings.

[horsetales]

Giddy’s dam did not get much of a bag until very close to foaling and then boom it was there. I too playing the mental games of is this normal, should I be worried As you know, all was fine (he was also a late arrival 350+)

[candyappy]

What type of pregnancy check was done and when? I had a mare confirmed in foal once who lost it sometime in her 4th month and I was feeding her like she was pregnant and when her due date was close she was heavier, yes, but no baby. this mare was kept at my place and I checked her daily and never knew. I always had a preg check done after the first trimester after that.

[can_t_re]

I’m not sure how much you have googled regarding fescue but I found this interesting article (there are plenty of others) - it’s a pdf:
Broodmares and Fescue Pasture

When mares have gone over their foaling date and have been removed from endophyte infected fescue, they show normal signs of foaling such as udder development within 48 hours and often foal normally within 72 hours after removal from endophyte infected fescue. Mares appear to quickly recover from some of the effects of endophyte infected fescue when moved to a non-endophyte infected forage.

I hope your pastures are endophyte free, but after working for a vet clinic in VA years ago and breeding in VA, I really don’t understand your vet’s opinion.

I wish you an uneventful foaling.