5 Gaited ASB Cues

[Kellyhein]

This is a 2 part question with many questions:

I have a 10 year old American Saddlebred mare. I’ve had for nearly 4 years now. She was bred and trained For Saddleseat, I was trained in hunt seat. We manage fine, but we still have communication trouble, but she still tries like the dickens for me. I’ve had a hard time trying to find someplace for saddleseat lessons around me, (Pittsburgh area) but I’m starting to wonder if she prefers hunt seat to saddleseat because of behavoira and the like (see #2). I’d love to show setting but if she only is ever a hack, I don’t really care. She’s the best.

1. I’m looking for someone to help explain the correct cues for asking her for different gaits. I’m taking this all the way to the basics. I’d really like if someone could break down and explain ach cue for the walk, trot, slow gait, rack and canter. Do they train side passing? How do you ask for that? Is it just my girl, or do all ASB ignore side pressure?

2. She doesn’t seem to care for my cutback saddle, she acts up with this saddle than with my jumping saddle. Her back does not hurt and she’s been thoroughly examined by a vet and has a clean bill of health. Could this be lack of saddleseat skills by me or her preference for the other discipline. Any ideas, advice, tips to try?

This is not a comment meant to offend, it is truly my lack of skill, plus the skill of saddleseat riders to make it look effortless. When I put the cutback on I feel like she telling me to get my butt off her and get working.

Thank you in advance for any and all help you can offer me.

[shakeytails]

Cue for slow gait /rack on the horses I’ve ridden have been pretty subtle. Sit back, spread your hands a bit, say “slow gait” and maybe bump 'em a little (side to side) with your hands. It’s hard to explain, but easy to do once you’ve done it a few times on an easy to rack horse. Don’t ever say “whup” at a rack- that means trot- “whup, trot”. Some horses are easy, others you have to help a lot, especially in the turns. It also helps greatly if they’re shod for 5 gaits. But, if your horse has not been trained to rack, she probably won’t.

[Kellyhein]

Yes she does rack! Glad to know that ‘whup’ should brig her back down. Nothing would really stop her otherwise.

I’ve been finally finding some information regarding lateral cues for the canter as opposed to diagonal as I was taught. Also, that inside leg pressure asks for a trot. If this mid true that explains why she keeps trying to trot when I’m asking her to move over to the rail. Is any of this true?

[shakeytails]

My horses move to the rail with inside leg pressure from any gait. Inside leg has nothing to do with trot cues.

Trot is easy. Pick up your reins, squeeze a little and cluck or say trot. For most horses it’s their favorite gait.

Canter on any ss horses I’ve ridden is tip head to rail a bit, squeeze with outside leg, and say “canter”. You must be sitting back and ask clearly. Lean forward and you’ll likely get a trot or a rack on a gaited horse. Oh, and ss horses won’t canter from anything but a walk or halt.

On a hot horse, for a flat foot walk, you’ll probably have to drop your hands and maybe scratch the withers a bit. “Whoa walk” is the common command.

As for being uncomfortable in the cutback… are you placing it correctly? It sits farther back than a hunt saddle. Or it could be the saddle. I had a lovely Barnsby, but it made my horse’s back sore. Horse never misbehaved, but went much better when I traded it for a Shively.

[red_mares]

Sidepassing isn’t something that a lot of show horses know. My trainer does work them sideways down the barn, mainly to help them pick up a canter. He’s also older than dirt. I’ve never seen a younger trainer do it. It isn’t something that is ‘required’ for showing; it doesn’t hurt but isn’t essential.

[Hippolyta]

I learned the cues as everyone has described above. Really the only difference from other disciplines is the canter.

For the rack, just lean back a bit, spread hands WIDE and high & just think “rack on!!” Fun!

[RedMare01]

For the rack or slow gait, I was taught about like everyone else. Sit back, hands high, spread wide, and kind of bump the bit side to side a little with the reins. It almost feels like their head/neck is wagging a little side to side in time with the motion.

A lot of ASBs are taught to either run into the canter from a trot, or they’re trained to canter from a stop (kind of turn their head into the wall/rail with the outside rein pulled, then push with outside leg and release the outside rein at the same time). Not many are trained to canter from a walk, IME.

[NBChoice]

In my area it is rare to see a Saddlebred being ran into the canter from a trot. The only people I see doing that at shows are a few trainers that are maybe in a five gaited class. I wouldn’t suggest doing it that way unless that’s the only way your horse knows how.
The majority I see either take it from a walk or a halt. That’s how I’ve always been taught to do it.

Enjoy your mare. I’m sure you’ll get the hang of all the cues soon. And of course, if you can find a place to take some lessons that will help you so much more.

[shakeytails]

[QUOTE=RedMare01;7739841]

A lot of ASBs are taught to either run into the canter from a trot…

…Not many are trained to canter from a walk, IME.[/QUOTE]

My trainer would have heart failure if I were to run into a canter! Huge no-no, especially on a pleasure horse. And I say canter from a walk, but the reality is you stop and ask for a canter, most don’t really step into a canter from a true walk.

[sdlbredfan]

If horse does not like the cutback, you probably have it too far forward. Please provide a picture.

[asb2517]

[QUOTE=RedMare01;7739841]

A lot of ASBs are taught to either run into the canter from a trot[/QUOTE]

Not by the good trainers…

I hardly see this at all…and when I do, I think, “Wow. That horse needs canter work.”

[NBChoice]

That’s my first thought too, asb2517.

[yaya]

Definitely canter from a walk.

I bought a super fancy warmblood that had a huge trot I couldn’t ride. I was so grateful that I knew how to canter from a walk from my Saddlebred days (and that he was 2nd level, so he knew how to canter from a walk too!) and I could just skip trotting on him. His canter was also very rocking-chair, big in front, and someone once asked me how I stayed in the saddle with that huge canter. I simply replied that it was the 20 years of riding Saddlebreds that I was used to!

[Kellyhein]

When you say “bump the bit side to side” am I moving my hands laterally or am I wiggling the bit in her mouth side to side. I ride with a snaffle, truly it’s all she needs. I have a half cheek snaffle I could put in. I never did learn how to ride in a Weymouth bridle or the like.

[Hippolyta]

You don’t need the full bridle. Your snaffle will be fine.

I was taught to never “run” into the canter, as others have said.

I miss riding those guys. Really gets your heart pounding!!!

[shakeytails]

It depends. On a well broke easy horse it just takes a tiny wiggle side to side with your pinkies. But I’ve ridden a couple that needed a bit more shake to get 'em going, and to keep 'em going in the corners. It also helps when you have a trainer hollering “right hand” or some such as you’re going into a corner. You don’t need two reins or a full bridle. Even the show horses are ridden in a snaffle most of the time. The “curb” rein on a work (snaffle) bridle does help with fine-tuning, though.

Girl, you need to get to a Saddlebred barn so you can learn to really have fun on a horse! Try calling www.royalefarms.com/ I hear Amy’s really nice- maybe she has some local suggestions for you. A few good lessons should help you get the feel for what you’re wanting your horse to do.

[ReSomething]

If you want lessons, ASHA has a list of trainers on their website - of course they are all dues paying members and there are a fair number of trainers that don’t pay dues, at least around here, but that’s a start. In addition, Frisians, Morgans, Arabs and National Show Horses are often shown saddleseat and there may be instruction available if you can find a breed barn.

The difference that I recall between ss and hunt seat, (my h/j instructor had a deep background in eventing also) was that the saddle sits back and so do you - so initially when I would mount I would be told to “scooch back” and it felt pretty strange. It’s not supposed to be a chair seat but can get mighty close. Leg is also not on the horse, hands are “holding the ice cream cone” and whip is therefor going straight down the horse’s shoulder. Reverse is a turn on the forehand at the rail.

Oh, yes, you hold your hands UP. When you do that puppy paw h/j hand that’s so close you can put out your pinky and touch the pommel, you are telling the ss horse to relax and slow down, not get to work.

A correct canter is a canter depart with a strong outside rein and leg, in beginner lessons sometimes you end up at a 45 to the wall. Although some trainers will run into a canter they teach their students on well trained horses that know their job.

We only had one horse that would rack and if you didn’t ask for the canter with that strong outside cue you got the rack. The pony that I have racks preferentially and I have to use back and seat cues to break up his walk so we can trot, otherwise we’re racking.

For h/j we had a whole bag of potential cues, for instance one guy was a butterfly outside leg and another was squeeze/lift/step down with the outside leg, and we rarely did canter departs but cantered often from the trot, sitting and posting, as well as the walk. We also did changes of lead, either the simple change using the trot or a flying, and those are NOT done in ss, it’s correct to come to a complete stop, then canter depart. We also tended to lead with the shoulder in corners in ss.

Here’s some longish video where there is a canter depart at 3.21, then racking at 8:00 or so, canter departs at 9:30 or so and racking at 10:45. You can really see the lateral action, the rocking from side to side in some of these. Bear in mind that the cameras are all at chest level so those necks aren’t quite as tall, and you can hear the verbal cues that are used a lot, wup trot, easy, growling. Towards the end they strip and you’ve got a good view of how far back those saddles really are. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JXys9q7y8_c

This vid is not so great quality but shows the sorts of movements that are asked for in ASB equitation patterns - they get lateral movements but I don’t recall that they are asked for, LOL. There is a set list of movements in the rulebook that are asked for in different patterns at different shows, not like dressage tests that are made up to be used consistently at all dressage shows everywhere.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YibYhcmK3S0

Lessons would be the best, but watching videos will at least get you an idea.

[ReSomething]

ASB are governed by USEF so the test rules are in the rulebook page 45. https://www.usef.org/documents/ruleBook/2014/12-EQ.pdf

And yes, most ASB do react to pressure, but as you can see from the vids it’s not finely tuned.

[Kellyhein]

Thanks for the farm input. I want to get some lesson time (I need it too). I really want to see what my girl can do!

[Kellyhein]

Thank you so much for taking the time to post this. I greatly appriciate it!