Since I do have to leave the computer again at some point this evening… I’d like to ask a favor of those of you who have been participating on this thread, for the most part in a respectful tone.
Don’t take the bait. Don’t feed the trolls.
If you appreciate the fact that COTH offers a forum where you ARE allowed to express negative opinions (even of our advertisers), and that we DON’T allow people who threaten to sue for no reason to bully us into deleting threads that don’t violate our rules… don’t allow the people who would have us do otherwise get their way by riling people up enough that I have to close the thread.
I think that for the most part, people here are relatively civil and reasonable. Prove me right.
Wrong again. One poster said “OK, Mapquest says they are 23 miles from our new farm. Maybe I need to take a drive this weekend.”
Not illegal, harrassing, or threatening to drive by a farm on a public road. In fact, I am planning to do it tomorrow to check out a boarding facility near me.
<SNIP>
That would be me. Other than the damage to the terrain and the lack of running room for the foals I really can’t complain about the place.
Since I do have to leave the computer again at some point this evening… I’d like to ask a favor of those of you who have been participating on this thread, for the most part in a respectful tone.
Don’t take the bait. Don’t feed the trolls.
If you appreciate the fact that COTH offers a forum where you ARE allowed to express negative opinions (even of our advertisers), and that we DON’T allow people who threaten to sue for no reason to bully us into deleting threads that don’t violate our rules… don’t allow the people who would have us do otherwise get their way by riling people up enough that I have to close the thread.
I think that for the most part, people here are relatively civil and reasonable. Prove me right
Just driving by to see the accident but I must say that this is refreshing. A certain other Unbelievably Dimly Bilious Board Dictator could take some notes.
LOL my neighbors once turned me into AC because my horses were “Knee deep” in mud. The animal warden evidently told the neighbor that the horses must like it because they could get out of the mud if they just moved a few feet up the hill.
You know, Erin - for a moderator you sure don’t do a lot of moderating.
No need to get nasty with me - I just stumbled across this and took issue - vehemently - with this type of COTH sponsored trashing of its subscribers and advertisers.
So no one is allowed to disagree with this thread? Even offer one positive thought?
Are you, as a COTH employee, endorsing this type of behavior on behalf of the publication? That’s what I’m reading. I know I’m not the only one who has complained - I’m the only one stupid enough to post about it and stick to my guns.
Let’s go ahead and go through the latest issue of the Chronicle and go through all its advertisers and run them into the ground while we’re at it.
Erin, you start. Pick one and start a thread.
This is not a discussion of someone who might not have the greatest business acumen - this has turned into a mudslinging free for all with a local business owner as the target- getting their jollies while this person is suffering - which makes me sick. As far as I’m concerned, COTH is endorsing this.
If that’s the way COTH wants to treat local business owners - then maybe they should advertise elsewhere.
Y’all are treating this like some sort of abstract concept.
This person is real living human being, with a business to run, a reputation in this community that she has tried to build and maintain, this person is trying to make a living, and you are enjoying making her suffer.
Why can’t you just disagree with her and be done with it? Why accuse me of being a “troll”? I just took exception to some of the posts that hit way below the belt? That’s not “trolling”. I would have done the same thing had the thread been about Ironwood Farm, who posts on this BB - or Wateryglen, also another BB’r - any other business owner.
As long as posters are staying within the rules, they are welcome to say whatever they like. They can even trash COTH if they so desire. If they have an opinion and can express it in a civil way within the rules, then I’m not going to mess with it.
People complain about threads all the time. Certain people will complain if a thread is left open, and then a different group of people will complain when it’s closed. I get paid the big bucks to decide which complaints are legitimate and which aren’t, and inevitably, someone will complain about whatever I decide. Such is life.
Let’s go ahead and go through the latest issue of the Chronicle and go through all its advertisers and run them into the ground while we’re at it.
Most of them have already been discussed here, I would wager. Perhaps not as the subject of such a long thread, but then again, this is pretty unusual subject material…
This is not a discussion of someone who might not have the greatest business acumen - this has turned into a mudslinging free for all with a local business owner as the target- getting their jollies while this person is suffering - which makes me sick. As far as I’m concerned, COTH is endorsing this.
Exactly what mud has been slung, J Swan? I just went through all your assertions and explained how you were exaggerating them, and here you go again.
People are expressing negative opinions, and yes, having a little fun mocking the site. It’s kind of “out there”… I’ve certainly never heard of anything like it in 25 years in horses.
No one is harrassing. No one is threatening. No one is making any allegations, other than discussing what the woman said on her own website. Now that most of the material is gone, the thread would probably die a quick natural death… if it weren’t for the defenders vehemently posting away saying that the thread shouldnt’ be here in the first place… and keeping the discussion rolling along and the thread at the top of the forum.
Why can’t you just disagree with her and be done with it?
It’s a discussion board. People discuss.
Shall I also ban all discussion of majikal gypsy vanners? After all, those GV breeders are real people with feelings too, and they’re trying to run a business.
I never said you were a troll. Dagan, on the other hand…
I’ll bet you’ve hit the nail on the head.
Anyhow, I honestly can’t infer what alot of people apparently are from her rules. To me, they seem pretty straightforward.
In regards to the $300 liquidated horse: while I can understand that the inference may be made that the horse will go to the killers, I would like to point out that this is not necessarily the case. I deal in horses (albeit in another part of the country), and I have attended sales where horses have sold in that range to NON-kill buyers; some were private parties, and some were other dealers, and some were trainers, but there were no kill-buyers at those sales. I also have “liquidated” if you wish to call it that horses for $300 and less to other dealers that would take the time and lay them up until they were saleable…I didn’t want to bother to do it, but neither did I want to ship them (to kill), so I knew the right contacts, and dumped them for low prices; they layed the horses up, fixed them, and now they have very good private homes (sometimes referred to by me, as I knew the horse, knew the injury, and knew the lay-up was correctly done). I have also been on the receiving end of some real good deals–I’ve picked up horses in that price range from other dealers–and some of these with the stipulation that they specifically NOT be shipped–and resold them to private homes. They were priced that low simply because the dealer wanted to off-load some stock…usually nothing at all was wrong with them, and sometimes it was just a case that they needed groceries, which I could provide. So, while yes, shipping (to slaughter) or auctioning in a ‘loose horse’ sale or selling by the pound is an option to “liquidate”, there are other ways to do so, and many, many dealers have those contacts. Most dealers in saddle stock don’t want to ship a good horse, and won’t try. Obviously, I don’t know this person, but perhaps because of my own background, I didn’t take offense or automatically assume that a horse was automatically being shipped when someone mentions “liquidating” at a low price.
Incidentally, I am used to buying many prospects, some of which I’ll sell to other people as prospects, and some which I’ll put the time into and sell when more finished. I am used to buying without vet-checks myself, and taking risks myself. I am not buying one horse to keep until hell freezes over; however, I do buy to keep a certain number…but usually just pick what I want when I come across it. However, at times I’ll look specifically for something. Again, I am used to making quick decisions–often buying from a group of horses, having just seen the horse run-up in hand (trotted in hand). Knock on wood, I’ve had very good luck doing that. Yes, sometimes I make a mistake. But usually not. And my preference is to deal with a decent horse-dealer–because I don’t have to worry about BS. Usually, if something is known about the animal, the dealer will call it. Reason: most serious dealers, that do it for a living, are horsemen, and would rather point out a known defect than have you discover it later and be unhappy. Most dealers, including myself, want repeat business. It is not in their best interest to do otherwise. Are there the bad ones out there? Yes, of course, as in anything. However, I find those much less common. I do find that it is often the “wanna-be” dealers that you may have trouble with; that is, the ones who are just getting into it, or don’t have as much knowledge, or are doing it more part-time.
Anyhow, I work on occassion with a breeder/dealer who has a policy whereby you cannot vet anything that is sold by them. Reason: this one only sells to other dealers, on purpose, so as to avoid dealing with vet-checks, not as knowledgeable people, etc. This person used to allow the general public to buy and do vettings, etc., but got sick of the hassle. The policy works for this person. And yes, I have bought off of them. And I have only gotten good, sound horses that were athletic and turned out to be very nice–and passed vet-checks when sold by me to private parties! In this dealer’s case, that policy doesn’t bother me in the least, because I know why it was implimented.
But, I also recognize that many people would not be comfortable, or even able, to buy under those circumstances. I recognize that dealers need other dealers to buy from. Some of those will sell to still other dealers, and some of those will sell to private people. Private people are the ones who will most likely need a vetcheck. Those dealers, selling to private people who need vet-checks, everything utd, etc. etc. will be having to sell at a higher price…because of the hassle involved.
Recognizing that the owner of the original website in question probably is selling to resellers or similar who will either be keeping them for themselves, or reselling again to the private person, this barn has policies that make sense from that standpoint. In addition, if she is dealing with other dealers or resellers, it makes the last clause that all people had been questioning (the one about if you buy out from under her from her supplier) make alot more sense as well. And given the statements about buying horses in larger lots, this makes the most sense.
Incidentally, the term ‘dealer’ years ago didn’t have a great connotation, but we do need to define the term as used today. Today, I use that term to describe everyone from the liscensed horse dealer that travels from place-to-place buying and selling to the high-end barn that imports and sells big-dollar european warmbloods. I use the term for anyone who makes a substantial amount of their income buying and selling horses. Many of these people also double as trainers, and will often be referred to as trainers, but do enough buying and selling to also be considered dealers, even if not officially liscenced as such and even if they don’t need such a liscence. I use the term private buyer or private people to refer to a person who makes a horse purchase once in a while, and keeps said horse and uses it themselves, etc. for their own pleasure/use/etc.
Anyhow, I think that much of the misunderstanding that appears to be here regarding this barn’s policies is probably due to a misunderstanding about how the world operates for the serious horse dealers/resellers versus the average horseperson who is not in the selling business. I suspect that most people ‘in the business’ will not understand her site to read the way that private people or average people will, and will not be as upset about it. However, I might add, that if I were the person who did this site, I, too, would not be terribly happy over the public posting of outrage? shock? not quite sure what is being expressed as the majority opinion here…resulting from reading what would seem to be straightforward practices to me, but which apparently some read very differently.
From my reading of the website, I’d be most willing to talk with/consider buying/buy from this seller if they had the type of horse which I deal in/wanted. However, I am another dealer, and her system makes sense to me. Maybe that is why I wasn’t offended in any way by her website.
Just my opinion.
Sorry - m’dear - I’ll disagree with you to my dying day. But - if you have the number handy to Blue Top Farm - or something similar to that name in the Gainesville, Virginia area - I would be in your debt.
For the rest - let the chips fall where they may. If that lady loses business - guess those low end PMU horses from Canada will be absorbed somehow. Certainly no one here will think they are responsible - after all - being an anonymous face on the Internet makes people “brave”.
So other horse dealers are this person’s targeted market?
Wouldn’t other horse dealers be able to figure out how to cut out this middle man, save a ton of money and buy draft crosses directly from the breeders in canada or wherever, rather than pay her apparently inflated prices for stock that is probably no saleable without considerable time and effort put in?
I don’t think x was saying that other dealers were this particular person’s market – just that she knows of another dealer who does not allow PPEs, because he/she sells primarily to other dealers. I think the point is that there ARE situations in which this practice might not be unheard of.
Apparently, you have not read the bottom of every page:
The opinions expressed are solely those of the authors and not those of the Chronicle of the Horse;
The Chronicle of the Horse takes no responsibility for such statements.
I have possibly lost new members to the coveted hallowed (hollowed?) halls of WTD due to Dagan talking negatively about WT, causing me great grief and pain, not to add my reputation (or lack thereof.) So, I shall sue.
