A cold day in hell before they take our horses - NYC carriage press conference

[QUOTE=LauraKY;7901879]
One can defend an organization from an untrue accusation without defending everything that organization does. I even defend Congresswoman Michelle Bachmann from untrue accusations (some of those facebook memes are so ridiculous) and I can’t think of anyone I would be less likely to support.

If you go to the nursemare foals thread, you’ll see I also support the use of nursemares. I also support the TB racing industry as well as many OTTB placement orgs. I’m just a mixed bag and an animal welfare advocate like many of us on this forum. There aren’t many issues that are black and white…lots of shades of gray out there.[/QUOTE]

Using that same basis, how do you justify your refusal to support Israel?..calling them backstabbers…killers of the Palestinian people etc.

I would rather converse with a person who is at least up front and CONSISTANT with their thoughts, than those who waffle like a tail on a kite

[QUOTE=Plainandtall;7902000]
Sticking up for a particular fact does not mean anything else than you aren’t willing to tolerate lies - regardless who it’s about. More often than not- when I make a correction about something that bugs me (for example the meme of Michelle Obama not putting her hand on her heart for the national anthem) … it has NOTHING AT ALL to do with my feelings about Michelle obama- and has a lot more to do with my FB friend being a total moron and passing around some unreasonable untrue propaganda <- that is the part that bothers me and why I speak up.

So- if someone said PETA put a trailer full of cattle on a rocketship and sent them over the moon- I’d call BS on that. Does that mean I’m defending PETA or anything they stand for?[/QUOTE]

There is a bottom line. The groups opposing have stated the carriage horses must be GIVEN TO THEM to look after. Not sold. Not taken home elsewhere…but ONLY TO THEM…and we all know how that ends up. If they had to post a bond of $250,000 per horse and allow 24/7 inspection at their new home…then one could say…okay…I can support this one instance using your rationale. However what will happen is the horses will be seized and they will quietly disappear…and if a few are found to be starving…well.that is just bad luck for those few horses…and if somoeone sued them they would file for bankruptcy…that is why a very large bond would need to be posted. AND maintain for the life of the horse.

Where does one find babbling brooks, green grass and gently rolling hills without paying through the nose…OH WAIT…that is what many claim will be happening in heaven…and there is only one way to get there…DEAD NOT ALIVE

Good point about threads such as this…they sure do show us what many of the posters stand for…despite their claims

[QUOTE=Bluey;7902318]
I disagree in a fundamental way.

Where is any compromise to ban all animal use by humans?

There is NO compromise with animal rights extremists, no middle ground.

There are no two extremes at all, there is what all humans do, use the natural, renewable resource animals are for us and have been for millennia and then the handful of those with their own strange ideology of a different world than we live in, one where humans live in bubbles or, as one animal rights extremist poster here told us, where there are no humans in the world so no animal would be enslaved.

Many in animal agriculture have been lulled to think there would be something they could do to, in the case of laws and regulations, so animal rights extremists would agree to this or that change.
They agreed in many meetings, then when it came to a bill, it was all over, there was no compromise, those in agriculture felt lied to.

As for the diversion into the slaughter topic, all I will say is that those that are against slaughter are following animal rights extremist propaganda.
Why is that so?
Because slaughter is, again, one more way we use the natural, renewable resource animals are in our world and some horses may fit that process.
The slaughter process is inherently not good or bad, is extremely regulated and inspected.

Animal rights extremists have made slaughter one of their causes of the moment with their abuse card.

I don’t know any one professional in animal agriculture and in the horse industry that is against slaughter in itself, that would not make sense.
Everyone knows that, as in everything else, there are abuses and those no one wants, but slaughter itself is not the problem, mismanagement is.

If we think about it, there is abuse in every other place we care to look and we don’t try to ban it all, jumping, gaited, rodeo, racing, everyone has heard plenty every time someone was found to be abusive and punished, as they should.

I grew up where our riding school owner would be called by the slaughter plant manager and he would bring horses for us to train and retrain.
You can say that I was “saving” horses from slaughter long before many here were born.
Still, those horses that were there and no other job found for them were slaughtered.
The way they were handled and shot was in no way abusive, no different than the vet today giving them a shot, just that the horse could be then used one more time, it was not a toxic carcass as euthanized horses are.

As for people’s sick horse needing euthanizing, that is not the horses slaughter handles at all.
No one is insisting all horses be by law slaughtered, that would be an extreme.
No one is trying to pass those kinds of laws, so it is really absurd to see any other extremist here than the obvious animal rights extremists.

In the end, the side topic of slaughter was intended as a personal dig.

It was also a complete 101 logic fail to try to compare the rightness of participating by those caring for horses properly that also happen to know what the slaughter process is and how it fits in our world today, with someone that is blindly following animal rights extremists trying to eliminate all uses of animals by humans and that means horses also.[/QUOTE]

Just read the thread where a woman and her husband living in a dual residency home have their unknown neighbors maybe cheating on each other. The OP asked should she MYOB or tell…there were many of the usual Democrat posters screaming for blood…tell tell tell…and insteresting that the Republican posters…(those who have identified themselves as such) were of the MYOB camp.

Animals rights, anti slaughter, and pro HSUS and PETA tend to be from a same group who want to control people, and the way to go down that hill is to start with animals.

Read the thread on Euthanizsia gone bad…the horror stories but they ignore those realities or make them trivial however during a slaughter debate they will cry foul that the dead bolt is not 100% all of the time.

It is ALL about controlling others and what they do and what they own.

Now…why are THEY on a horse forum?

[QUOTE=Fairfax;7904992]
Just read the thread where a woman and her husband living in a dual residency home have their unknown neighbors maybe cheating on each other. The OP asked should she MYOB or tell…there were many of the usual Democrat posters screaming for blood…tell tell tell…and insteresting that the Republican posters…(those who have identified themselves as such) were of the MYOB camp.[/QUOTE]

Strange, I do not see the same political divide on that thread that you are seeing.

So any updates?

I recall it seems something was happening on Dec. 15…figured there’s gotta be some buzz.

Is the story still “cruelty” or is the message of land-grab and political payback getting air time.

Well here is a nice clip supporting the carriage horses:

http://www.myfoxny.com/clip/10948894/councilwoman-crowley

[QUOTE=pluvinel;7908928]
So any updates?

I recall it seems something was happening on Dec. 15…figured there’s gotta be some buzz.

Is the story still “cruelty” or is the message of land-grab and political payback getting air time.[/QUOTE]

Yes.
Because what other reason could there be to steal from law abiding people!

[QUOTE=Fairfax;7904992]
Just read the thread where a woman and her husband living in a dual residency home have their unknown neighbors maybe cheating on each other. The OP asked should she MYOB or tell….there were many of the usual Democrat posters screaming for blood…tell tell tell…and insteresting that the Republican posters…(those who have identified themselves as such) were of the MYOB camp.

Animals rights, anti slaughter, and pro HSUS and PETA tend to be from a same group who want to control people, and the way to go down that hill is to start with animals.

Read the thread on Euthanizsia gone bad…the horror stories but they ignore those realities or make them trivial however during a slaughter debate they will cry foul that the dead bolt is not 100% all of the time.

It is ALL about controlling others and what they do and what they own.

Now…why are THEY on a horse forum?[/QUOTE]
So, the Dems are in favor of telling truth and the GOP in a cover-up? But Benghazi

[QUOTE=Beverley;7909134]
Well here is a nice clip supporting the carriage horses:

http://www.myfoxny.com/clip/10948894/councilwoman-crowley[/QUOTE]

That was nice.

The trouble with animal rights extremist agendas is what lays beyond the obvious.

They want a notch on their revolver, they want the publicity, they want a win.
To them, this is all a game, to the carriage people there, it is what they do for a living, to be able to keep their trade is serious, not a game some play for fun in their spare time or cruising internet forums.

I still think the economics of the city, what they can get out of other than stables in that location, is a big draw to convince those that will vote where their best interest lays and it is doing what the big moneybags want.

The carriage business, if not this time, then the next or next, will be run out of town in the dealing and wheeling and money and favors changing hands there to get the votes, is the way this works.

As the lady in the interview said, this is not an animal rights issue at all, that is opportunistic noise animal rights extremists are running with and, really lies about the abuse, all to cover the real topic, the real estate in dispute there.

http://friendsofanimals.org/news/2014/december/homes-horses-foas-letter-editor-ny-daily-news

This came across my news feed on FB today. I can’t stand the fact that the specific sanctuaries aren’t listed, but it’s implied 150 spots have been ‘reserved’ for these horses.

NY Daily News reports on a NY Times editorial asking de Blasio to back off the bill to ban the carriages.

http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/new-york-times-de-blasio-carriage-ban-article-1.2038736

The New York Times advised Mayor de Blasio to rein in his “foolish” campaign promise to ban horse carriages in a biting editorial Monday.

“A selective animal-rights pose is an odd position for Mr. de Blasio, who calls himself a defender of unions and small businesses, and whose job it is to promote the city as a place for tourists,” The Times said in an editorial headlined “Horse Nonsense From City Hall.”

The paper urged the City Council to vote down the proposed ban, which it suggested had its origins in the mayoral campaign, when NYCLASS, which fiercely opposes the horse carriages, attacked de Blasio’s opponent Christine Quinn.

The editorial said the bill raised a series of questions, including the fate of the horses and what plans exist for the stables on the West Side of Manhattan.

“Why wipe out a well-loved, well-regulated, law-abiding part of the tourist economy?” the paper asked and gave de Blasio and the Council its answer: “Dump the bill. Keep the horses.”

[QUOTE=Sansena;7910934]
http://friendsofanimals.org/news/2014/december/homes-horses-foas-letter-editor-ny-daily-news

This came across my news feed on FB today. I can’t stand the fact that the specific sanctuaries aren’t listed, but it’s implied 150 spots have been ‘reserved’ for these horses.[/QUOTE]

The horses are private property. This bill is a “taking” of private property since it defines what the owners can do with their property.

[QUOTE=pluvinel;7910939]
The horses are private property. This bill is a “taking” of private property since it defines what the owners can do with their property.[/QUOTE]

That seems to be the best way to go about killing this bill.

That is one reason no sensible voter should ignore.

[QUOTE=Bluey;7910964]

That is one reason no sensible voter should ignore.[/QUOTE]

Sensible and animal rights movements really do not go hand in hand.

[QUOTE=pluvinel;7899982]
It’s not over til it’s over…per Yogi Berra.

Don’t give up the fight for lost…the carriage horse people have friends.

.[/QUOTE]

I just came from an AKC Delegate meeting and this was discussed. They passed around a petition for us to sign and also discussed how we, the dog fancy, can help with this as well! We were also told about the Canines and Carriages Event that will take place in NYC during Westminster weekend! The dog fancy is fully behind the horse and carriage folks!!

[QUOTE=Arizona DQ;7911714]
I just came from an AKC Delegate meeting and this was discussed. They passed around a petition for us to sign and also discussed how we, the dog fancy, can help with this as well! We were also told about the Canines and Carriages Event that will take place in NYC during Westminster weekend! The dog fancy is fully behind the horse and carriage folks!![/QUOTE]

NYClass is running anti carriage horse ads on NY1 urging people to sign an anti petition and showing video of the downed horse from a couple of years ago. anyone know if the carriage people have an ad planned?

[QUOTE=NCRider;7912419]
NYClass is running anti carriage horse ads on NY1 urging people to sign an anti petition and showing video of the downed horse from a couple of years ago. anyone know if the carriage people have an ad planned?[/QUOTE]

Those 30 second add spots run about 30 to 40k a pop. Does anyone else find it more then a little sad that this group NYClass can pay 450K for a POS chitty chitty bang bang bus and 30 to 40K a spot for anti carriage horse adds and STILL to this day has never spent a dime to support , rescue , rehab or pension a single horse ?

If I was a rescue organization especially one of the ones who regularly pulls horses from the KB’s I would be so livid and horrified at this group all in the same thought. Threatening to add more horses to the already overburdened rescue’s AND not contributing a damn penny in lieu of their ruckus.

Good to see the NY Times and NY Daily News being sensible.

So 150 places are “reserved” at sanctuaries? Freakin’ terrifying, the idea that privately owned horses, just like your horse and my horse, could potentially be taken away from their owners and sent to languish in sanctuaries (where surely those 150 spaces could be given to horses who are actually abuse or neglected) without any due process to speak of. Just a few sensationalized TV ads.

[QUOTE=Caol Ila;7912772]
Freakin’ terrifying, the idea that privately owned horses, just like your horse and my horse, could potentially be taken away from their owners and sent to languish in sanctuaries [/QUOTE]

You have hit the nail on the head. EVERY horse owner in EVERY discipline ought to be worried about this. When elected officials rely on RARAs for ‘information’ as the basis for a decision, instead of seeking out qualified horse welfare folks, there is no hope! This in combination with pita’s recent adventure in Virginia, taking a dog from its own porch and euthanizing it, are I hope huge wakeup calls.

Just to show you how nutty these anti-carriage folks are (Yes, I know you are reading here:)), I understand from some posts on Facebook that they’ve taken one of Bluey’s posts (the one quoted by Fairfax in #82 above), put it on their page (to clarify, it’s on the ‘I Oppose Slaughter’ page), and, if I followed the discussion correctly, falsely claimed that Bluey is a NY carriage driver and the post in question means that the NY carriage owners are pro-slaughter.

More use of out of context + false information. Just as pita and HSUS and others use doctored videos to allege animal abuse when it suits their radical agenda. And yes, election officials being clueless as to horse welfare will easily enough believe this sort of stuff instead of real, factual information.