Gee Bluey, those anti carriage folks owe you a thank you note. The sad thing is, with only a couple of notable exceptions, I’m guessing most of the carriage horse supporters are also anti-slaughter.
[QUOTE=Beverley;7913765]
Just to show you how nutty these anti-carriage folks are (Yes, I know you are reading here:)), I understand from some posts on Facebook that they’ve taken one of Bluey’s posts (the one quoted by Fairfax in #82 above), put it on their page (to clarify, it’s on the ‘I Oppose Slaughter’ page), and, if I followed the discussion correctly, falsely claimed that Bluey is a NY carriage driver and the post in question means that the NY carriage owners are pro-slaughter.
More use of out of context + false information. Just as pita and HSUS and others use doctored videos to allege animal abuse when it suits their radical agenda. And yes, election officials being clueless as to horse welfare will easily enough believe this sort of stuff instead of real, factual information.[/QUOTE]
What else does anyone expect from animal rights extremists, that pay someone 140,000.-- to lie to a jury?
They never let the truth get in the way of their propaganda, do they.
[QUOTE=Bluey;7913935]
What else does anyone expect from animal rights extremists, that pay someone 140,000.-- to lie to a jury?
They never let the truth get in the way of their propaganda, do they.[/QUOTE]
What are you talking about?
Oh, mercy. Screenshot Bluey’s original post with date stamp and all, and screenshot their misuse of it on their page, and send it to the lawyer now working with the New York carriage drivers. He’ll know what to do with it.
[QUOTE=LauraKY;7913924]
Gee Bluey, those anti carriage folks owe you a thank you note. The sad thing is, with only a couple of notable exceptions, I’m guessing most of the carriage horse supporters are also anti-slaughter.[/QUOTE]
The carriage horse owners have no official position on slaughter. And rightly so, since it is not relevant to the issue of whether being a carriage horse equals anything other than good horse welfare. As it happens, I am a carriage horse supporter who also thinks that slaughter can be done humanely and is therefore okay, when done right. But they are two separate issues, I think that those who wail ‘but they’ll go to slaughter if you ban carriage horses’ are both disingenuous and uninformed.
[QUOTE=Beverley;7913967]
The carriage horse owners have no official position on slaughter. And rightly so, since it is not relevant to the issue of whether being a carriage horse equals anything other than good horse welfare. As it happens, I am a carriage horse supporter who also thinks that slaughter can be done humanely and is therefore okay, when done right. But they are two separate issues, I think that those who wail ‘but they’ll go to slaughter if you ban carriage horses’ are both disingenuous and uninformed.[/QUOTE]
Slaughter really had no place in this discussion,but when Bluey gets on a roll…that’s her favorite topic.
[QUOTE=LauraKY;7913970]
Slaughter really had no place in this discussion,but when Bluey gets on a roll…that’s her favorite topic.[/QUOTE]
Well, it is part of the argument:
The drivers use up the horses and dispose of them ‘THE TRUCK IS COMING!!!’
Fascinating, really, as the drivers are very active to provide their own retirement plans for their horses.
Of course, if a horse does not work out, they go back to the seller.
Who is most likely NOT New Holland, since the job is nothing you would want to put a Dark Horse in…
[QUOTE=Alagirl;7914001]
Well, it is part of the argument:
The drivers use up the horses and dispose of them ‘THE TRUCK IS COMING!!!’
Fascinating, really, as the drivers are very active to provide their own retirement plans for their horses.
Of course, if a horse does not work out, they go back to the seller.
Who is most likely NOT New Holland, since the job is nothing you would want to put a Dark Horse in…[/QUOTE]
The anti-carriage people think that if they have their way - these horses would not end up at an auction. I would like to know what they are smoking.
[QUOTE=JGHIRETIRE;7914008]
The anti-carriage people think that if they have their way - these horses would not end up at an auction. I would like to know what they are smoking.[/QUOTE]
It’s part of the smoke and mirrors.
You know: Driving horses = abuse, all abusers send horsed to slaughter for giggles…
But in reality, they don’t give a road apple. As long as the horses are gone, they don’t really care where (or they would have to gain an understanding of how the industry works.)
Guys…we’re preaching to the choir, eg., to each other here on COTH…we need to go out and educate the locals in NYC.
A friend lives in Manhattan. I asked her what the heck was going on with the carriage horses…she asked, “what about the carriage horses?”
So don’t take it for granted that the local people are aware…if you have friends in NYC start educating…and ask them to contact their council person.
Here’s the latest from Jon Katz, and it points out the hypocrisy of Nislick’s participation in eventing and yet finding NYC carriage horses “abused.” The bad thing is he got some big name eventers and show jumpers to support his anti-carriage horse nonsense. I hope these people have second thoughts and cease having anything to do with him.
[QUOTE=lolalola;7914420]
Here’s the latest from Jon Katz, and it points out the hypocrisy of Nislick’s participation in eventing and yet finding NYC carriage horses “abused.” The bad thing is he got some big name eventers and show jumpers to support his anti-carriage horse nonsense. I hope these people have second thoughts and cease having anything to do with him.[/QUOTE]
Well, Nislick only wants the land. He just has the useful idiots do the dirty work for them.
[QUOTE=lolalola;7914420]
Here’s the latest from Jon Katz, and it points out the hypocrisy of Nislick’s participation in eventing and yet finding NYC carriage horses “abused.” The bad thing is he got some big name eventers and show jumpers to support his anti-carriage horse nonsense. I hope these people have second thoughts and cease having anything to do with him.[/QUOTE]
“Follow the money”, could it be that those big name eventers may be beholden to sponsors that tell them what to say in situations as this one?
It doesn’t make sense for any one professional in the horse industry to stick their neck out like that, to fight another discipline like they are doing, without a dog in that fight.
There may be other motives there, just a guess there.
The dog in that fight to support the NYC horses is there for all of us that have and care for animals.
We don’t want animal rights extremists to pick us out, one at the time, here the NYC carriage horses, there someone else, because we are next, sooner or later.
We need to remember that, by definition, animal rights extremists are ultimately after eliminating ALL uses of animals by humans.
[QUOTE=Bluey;7914535]
“Follow the money”, could it be that those big name eventers may be beholden to sponsors that tell them what to say in situations as this one?
It doesn’t make sense for any one professional in the horse industry to stick their neck out like that, to fight another discipline like they are doing, without a dog in that fight.
There may be other motives there, just a guess there.
The dog in that fight to support the NYC horses is there for all of us that have and care for animals.
We don’t want animal rights extremists to pick us out, one at the time, here the NYC carriage horses, there someone else, because we are next, sooner or later.
We need to remember that, by definition, animal rights extremists are ultimately after eliminating ALL uses of animals by humans.[/QUOTE]
Maybe they just believe horses don’t belong on the streets of NY City. That’s a possibility. It doesn’t have to be some nefarious plot. I’m going to bet a lot of COTHers agree…they’re just not willing to stick their necks out for attack on this thread. As I’ve said before, I’d be fine with them restricted to Central Park at times when auto traffic is restricted.
We’ve gone around and around about the anti’s confiscating the horses or buying them for almost nothing. Is there really any legal way that they can do this, since there is no legal reason to prove that they are mistreated, abused, or even anything other than personal private property? Just because the anti’s want this to happen doesn’t mean that they have a leg to stand on. And–just because they don’t want this to happen, I don’t think there is anything illegal about an owner selling his private property out of state, or selling it through a legal auction, or even selling it, god forbid, to slaughter.
Maybe it’s time to start hitting some of the other reasons. Even if someone personally doesn’t like it, there is nothing wrong with horses having a job, even if some jobs are obviously more pleasant than others. Unless the horse is abused or mistreated, he can have a job (with more vacation days than the average human worker).
As an aside, I think that the Teamsters could shut down NYC in an instant if they wanted to–especially if it turns out to be a blue collar versus white collar conflict.
There is nothing wrong with horses being on the streets of NYC, or any other city, for that matter. In fact horses have a legal right to every road, excepting interstates, and there are even exceptions for that, I’ve galloped I-80 for the Pony Express. Any horse owner who advocates for the ban on that basis is doing harm to all horse owners- we are less than 1% of the U.S. population, a tiny minority, we need to be fighting for our rights, not giving them up. Let me repeat. There is nothing wrong with horses being on streets.
[QUOTE=Alagirl;7914067]
It’s part of the smoke and mirrors.
You know: Driving horses = abuse, all abusers send horsed to slaughter for giggles…
But in reality, they don’t give a road apple. As long as the horses are gone, they don’t really care where (or they would have to gain an understanding of how the industry works.)[/QUOTE]
What happened to “it’s about the animals”. PHHHHHHTTTT
I will tell you why some BNT equestrians support the carriage ban.
1-Most of them have never been to the stables.
2-Many of them have never actually seen a carriage horse in person
3-The carriage drivers are too dissimilar in terms of socioeconomic status to trigger any feelings of sympathy.
4-In most cases, they’re BNT because they can ride and have $, not because of any great mental powers.
5-A lot of them are too stupid to understand that upper level anything in horse sports is way more difficult for a horse than ambling around central park a few times broken up by long stretches of standing and looking around.
The thing that bugs me the most about a lot of these people-dressage folks and h/j peeps, I’m particularly talking to you-is that the carriage horses spend far more time out of their stalls each day than your average dressage horse who gets handwalked once, and then ridden for 45 minutes. The life of a carriage horse is basically stand around, walk around, stand around, eat some, drink some, walk around, trot a little, walk around, eat and sleep. Sound a lot like what they do when they live outside. It’s a very easy life.
As for the city streets, not every horse could handle it, but some of them don’t care. If it’s considered safe enough for pedestrians and pedi cabs, it’s certain safe enough for horses who’ve shown they don’t mind the hussle and bussle.
NYClass goes after the carriage horses because they appeared to be an easy target.
I will always and forever respect Mayor Bloomberg for making up his own mind on this one and not listening to his daughter.
[QUOTE=LauraKY;7914580]
Maybe they just believe horses don’t belong on the streets of NY City. That’s a possibility. It doesn’t have to be some nefarious plot. I’m going to bet a lot of COTHers agree…they’re just not willing to stick their necks out for attack on this thread. As I’ve said before, I’d be fine with them restricted to Central Park at times when auto traffic is restricted.[/QUOTE]
You have also applauded HSUS and PETA for taking action so your opinions are not surprising
[QUOTE=Bluey;7914535]
It doesn’t make sense for any one professional in the horse industry to stick their neck out like that, to fight another discipline like they are doing…
We need to remember that, by definition, animal rights extremists are ultimately after eliminating ALL uses of animals by humans.[/QUOTE]
LMAO x100. Where do you get that someone who supports another discipline is out to end the use of carriage horses by everyone, everywhere? Talk about someone who likes to get on an extremist soapbox. Last I checked, the issue is about having horses on the streets of New York. Where I live I watched a team pull a carriage in a small town Christmas parade last weekend, and another town near me has a lovely percheron that is used for evening carriage rides during the holiday season. I have yet to see anyone protesting these instances and claim that ALL use of carriage horses should be banned. Do you know something the rest of us don’t know?
I’m willing to bet this post is 100% correct on all points. :yes:
