A cold day in hell before they take our horses - NYC carriage press conference

[QUOTE=LauraKY;7914580]
Maybe they just believe horses don’t belong on the streets of NY City. That’s a possibility. It doesn’t have to be some nefarious plot. I’m going to bet a lot of COTHers agree…they’re just not willing to stick their necks out for attack on this thread. As I’ve said before, I’d be fine with them restricted to Central Park at times when auto traffic is restricted.[/QUOTE]

Then, there are plenty of posters that won’t come out and say what they think of animal rights extremists and the posters here that push their agendas, but don’t want the hassle to try to explain their points and maybe be harassed by those in real life.

My guess, with 2% of people admitting to being vegetarians/vegans, there are really not many of those animal rights extremists out there, those are just very loud.

I am glad that someone gave them COTH web address with my post, as someone told me.
Maybe some of those that peek here will realize that, when it comes to these topics, they are not being told the whole, true story after all.

[QUOTE=LauraKY;7914580]
Maybe they just believe horses don’t belong on the streets of NY City. That’s a possibility. It doesn’t have to be some nefarious plot. I’m going to bet a lot of COTHers agree…they’re just not willing to stick their necks out for attack on this thread. As I’ve said before, I’d be fine with them restricted to Central Park at times when auto traffic is restricted.[/QUOTE]

Well, traffic through the park is restricted, safe for a couple of streets across…Carriages can get through though.

[QUOTE=Bluey;7915283]
Then, there are plenty of posters that won’t come out and say what they think of animal rights extremists and the posters here that push their agendas, but don’t want the hassle to try to explain their points and maybe be harassed by those in real life.

My guess, with 2% of people admitting to being vegetarians/vegans, there are really not many of those animal rights extremists out there, those are just very loud.

I am glad that someone gave them COTH web address with my post, as someone told me.
Maybe some of those that peek here will realize that, when it comes to these topics, they are not being told the whole, true story after all.[/QUOTE]

If they’re reading what you wrote, I imagine you only reinforced their position. Not many people support horse slaughter. The last poll I saw was 80% of Americans against slaughter of horses. You blew it there, big time and now they get to use it for propaganda by claiming that the pro carriage horse people also support the slaughter of horses. Good job.

Realistically? The post up-thread where someone quoted her NYC friend who hadn’t even heard of the controversy reflects the majority of Americans. For 99% of non-“horse” people, this is a filler that pops up on their home-page screen and THAT IS ALL. Probably 3% even click on it, as it has no relevance to their own lives.

Most Americans, regrettably, no longer are exposed to horses in real life at ALL.
They haven’t a clue on their proper care, how they should be worked, the fact that they should be worked at all, or where they go to die. The average person has NOT A CLUE nor a reason to care about horse slaughter, and broach the subject to Joe Sixpack and you’ll get some rude joke about “Well, hope the one who lost me ten bucks last week went there! Now how 'bout them Giants?”

The trouble you have here is a small cadre of ignorant “glitterati” have made NYCLASS their “cause” and they have just enough cred because of their money and mouth to keep the ball in the air. Personally, I think it’ll be fought in court by some superior lawyers on the Teamsters’ ticket who are going to CLEAN THEIR CLOCK; after which the Mayor will still have fulfilled his campaign promise to try and get that land for his bankrollers.

And NO, I DON’T think “they’re coming for the rest of us” any time soon, again because the Average American couldn’t care less what we do or how we do it. The fact that racetrack breakdowns happen in the public eye and John Q. Public doesn’t bat an eye pretty much proves it. Don’t keep yourself awake nights . . .

[QUOTE=LauraKY;7915626]
If they’re reading what you wrote, I imagine you only reinforced their position. Not many people support horse slaughter. The last poll I saw was 80% of Americans against slaughter of horses. You blew it there, big time and now they get to use it for propaganda by claiming that the pro carriage horse people also support the slaughter of horses. Good job.[/QUOTE]

Actually, many of the regular posters on this thread who are pro-carriage are indeed also pro-slaughter, so you aren’t too far off the mark with this comment.

:yes:

You are assuming much. And a look at thumbs will give you an idea how many of the “silent majority” agree with you.

And “horses don’t belong on NYC streets” directly attacks the nypd mounted units.

[QUOTE=LauraKY;7915626]
If they’re reading what you wrote, I imagine you only reinforced their position. Not many people support horse slaughter. The last poll I saw was 80% of Americans against slaughter of horses. You blew it there, big time and now they get to use it for propaganda by claiming that the pro carriage horse people also support the slaughter of horses. Good job.[/QUOTE]

Yes, have them come here to read thru what others, that are not animal rights extremists, have to say, like here:

http://www.chronofhorse.com/forum/showthread.php?454918-Taking-a-stand-against-the-criminal-acts-of-PETA-in-VA-please-help/page5

There sure will be some opened eyes after reading the discussions here, where animal rights extremists can’t delete posts at will and add their myths and propaganda and no one the wiser.

The NYC carriage horses are extremely well regulated and supervised.
They are by far some of the most well cared horses out there.
Animal rights extremists are selling a lie when they show the very rare time there is an accident and want to make it their flag bearer for abuse.

Let them come here, where the truth is out there and maybe some will realize they are being sold a pig in a poke by some extremists that they would never think to support if they really knew what they are all about.

[QUOTE=Bluey;7915759]
Yes, have them come here to read thru what others, that are not animal rights extremists, have to say, like here:

http://www.chronofhorse.com/forum/showthread.php?454918-Taking-a-stand-against-the-criminal-acts-of-PETA-in-VA-please-help/page5

There sure will be some opened eyes after reading the discussions here, where animal rights extremists can’t delete posts at will and add their myths and propaganda and no one the wiser.

The NYC carriage horses are extremely well regulated and supervised.
They are by far some of the most well cared horses out there.
Animal rights extremists are selling a lie when they show the very rare time there is an accident and want to make it their flag bearer for abuse.

Let them come here, where the truth is out there and maybe some will realize they are being sold a pig in a poke by some extremists that they would never think to support if they really knew what they are all about.[/QUOTE]

Sorry, my dear, you’re pretty out there in extremo land with your claims that horses are a renewable resource to be used by any and all for any purpose. I don’t believe I’ve ever seen you call anything abuse…not even horse tripping or soring. That’s pretty extreme on the other end. So no, I don’t think your doing the kind of PR convincing you think.

[QUOTE=LauraKY;7915859]
Sorry, my dear, you’re pretty out there in extremo land with your claims that horses are a renewable resource to be used by any and all for any purpose. I don’t believe I’ve ever seen you call anything abuse…not even horse tripping or soring. That’s pretty extreme on the other end. So no, I don’t think your doing the kind of PR convincing you think.[/QUOTE]

Don’t forget roasting puppies for breakfast also, if you are going to throw baseless accusations around.

LMAO!!! Do you really believe this?

First of all, exactly who do you think the “silent majority” consists of, besides the people who are regular posters/supporters of this topic?

What about the “silent majority” who don’t open these threads because they have a history of turning into train wrecks?

What about the “silent majority” who really don’t even care about the thumbs?!

Thanks for the laugh, I needed it! :lol:

[QUOTE=Lady Eboshi;7915721]

And NO, I DON’T think “they’re coming for the rest of us” any time soon, again because the Average American couldn’t care less what we do or how we do it. The fact that racetrack breakdowns happen in the public eye and John Q. Public doesn’t bat an eye pretty much proves it. Don’t keep yourself awake nights . . .[/QUOTE]

Ignorance is bliss, I guess.

[QUOTE=jenm;7915271]
LMAO x100. Where do you get that someone who supports another discipline is out to end the use of carriage horses by everyone, everywhere? Talk about someone who likes to get on an extremist soapbox. Last I checked, the issue is about having horses on the streets of New York. Where I live I watched a team pull a carriage in a small town Christmas parade last weekend, and another town near me has a lovely percheron that is used for evening carriage rides during the holiday season. I have yet to see anyone protesting these instances and claim that ALL use of carriage horses should be banned. Do you know something the rest of us don’t know?

I’m willing to bet this post is 100% correct on all points. :yes:[/QUOTE]

When the people protesting the carriage horses refer to the horses as “slaves”, their stalls as “cells”, their harnesses as “shackles” and their drivers as “abusers”, they certainly have a larger agenda than not wanting horses on the streets of NYC. Because, if those above reasons are reason enough to ban carriage horses in NYC, then it will be reason enough to keep you from riding your horse because your use of your horse constitutes “abuse” in their book. Listen to their words, they have meaning.
And, if they just believed the horses don’t belong on the streets of New York, why the demand that the horses be sold or donated to people or rescues who agree not to ever use the horses in harness again? For the animal rights activists this is far more than just getting the horses off the city streets, it is about never letting those horses be worked in any fashion what so ever again.
How do those facts jibe with your view?

[QUOTE=jenm;7916049]
LMAO!!! Do you really believe this?

First of all, exactly who do you think the “silent majority” consists of, besides the people who are regular posters/supporters of this topic?

What about the “silent majority” who don’t open these threads because they have a history of turning into train wrecks?

What about the “silent majority” who really don’t even care about the thumbs?!

Thanks for the laugh, I needed it! :lol:[/QUOTE]

i am responding to :

“I’m going to bet a lot of COTHers agree…they’re just not willing to stick their necks out for attack on this thread”

There have been 4,000 views of this thread, but not one thumbs up to the above post about “a lot of Cothers agree”.

A thumb would support the claim(without sticking their neck out) that there are “a lot” supporters on COTH.

The “silent majority” that supports Peta/anti carriage is what I am questioning and why it’s my opinion that it is an assumption.

This isn’t the Coth population, so doesn’t directly respond to the original post, but:

"Some 67 percent of residents polled in new Quinnipiac University poll released today said they do not believe Mayor Bill de Blasio should ban horse-drawn carriages, something he promised to do on “day one” of his administration. Just 22 percent of those polled supported the mayor’s plans to nix the industry.“New Yorkers are more opposed than ever to that issue that City Hall seems to care a lot about—banning horse-drawn carriages,” said Quinnipiac University Poll Assistant Director Maurice Carroll.
The university’s polling has consistently shown opposition to the ban, but this particular survey found the opposition to be higher than ever, up from 63 percent last month. Among every demographic group of people polled, at least 59 percent were opposed to the ban."
[I]

Read more at http://observer.com/2014/12/opposition-to-carriage-horse-ban-is-growing-according-to-quinnipiac-poll/#ixzz3MLE3LpYy
Follow us: @newyorkobserver on Twitter | newyorkobserver on Facebook[/I]

[QUOTE=Chall;7916143]
This isn’t the Coth population, so doesn’t directly respond to the original post, but:

"Some 67 percent of residents polled in new Quinnipiac University poll released today said they do not believe Mayor Bill de Blasio should ban horse-drawn carriages, something he promised to do on “day one” of his administration. Just 22 percent of those polled supported the mayor’s plans to nix the industry.“New Yorkers are more opposed than ever to that issue that City Hall seems to care a lot about—banning horse-drawn carriages,” said Quinnipiac University Poll Assistant Director Maurice Carroll.
The university’s polling has consistently shown opposition to the ban, but this particular survey found the opposition to be higher than ever, up from 63 percent last month. Among every demographic group of people polled, at least 59 percent were opposed to the ban."
[I]

Read more at http://observer.com/2014/12/opposition-to-carriage-horse-ban-is-growing-according-to-quinnipiac-poll/#ixzz3MLE3LpYy
Follow us: @newyorkobserver on Twitter | newyorkobserver on Facebook[/I][/QUOTE]

Sounds like the word is getting out that banning the NYC carriage horses is a goofy idea, much less to do it as intended, taking the horses away from the drivers.
If that is right, that alone is many lawsuits against the major and the city looking for a place to happen.

Someone said animal rights extremists were putting out ads with a carriage accident?

Does the carriage people put out ads with videos of those animal rights extremist cussing at them, trying to scare the horses and interfering in general with them in the streets, to show what kinds of crazy, deranged, disruptive people those are?

I still can’t believe that someone was simple enough to copy my post and, when it is so easy to check that I am not a carriage driver, run with that assumption like I was told they did.
That alone tells us that animal rights extremists are either not all there, or playing a bit too loose with the truth, which makes them questionable people for sensible people to get behind.

Too bad that they are the ones with the money and money seems to talk in the situation the NYC carriage drivers are now, trying to defend what they do, that is so transparent, no one should have any questions left that is not abuse.

The real abuse here is on the part of the animal rights extremists impeding the NYC carriage drivers from going about their day and even worse, trying to take their horses away from them!

I really am not into winning that much.
If you believe pro-carriage people = pro slaughter, or
that the majority of Cothers approve the ban,
then that’s what you believe.

I am always confused when the topic of slaughter comes up and people start saying others are pro-slaughter.

I do not think anyone is actually pro-slaughter. That is like saying someone is pro-abortion instead of saying they are pro-choice.

I am not against slaughter, that most certainly does not equal pro-slaughter.

[QUOTE=Chall;7916143]
This isn’t the Coth population, so doesn’t directly respond to the original post, but:

"Some 67 percent of residents polled in new Quinnipiac University poll released today said they do not believe Mayor Bill de Blasio should ban horse-drawn carriages, something he promised to do on “day one” of his administration. Just 22 percent of those polled supported the mayor’s plans to nix the industry.“New Yorkers are more opposed than ever to that issue that City Hall seems to care a lot about—banning horse-drawn carriages,” said Quinnipiac University Poll Assistant Director Maurice Carroll.
The university’s polling has consistently shown opposition to the ban, but this particular survey found the opposition to be higher than ever, up from 63 percent last month. Among every demographic group of people polled, at least 59 percent were opposed to the ban."
[I]

Read more at http://observer.com/2014/12/opposition-to-carriage-horse-ban-is-growing-according-to-quinnipiac-poll/#ixzz3MLE3LpYy
Follow us: @newyorkobserver on Twitter | newyorkobserver on Facebook[/I][/QUOTE]

Glad to hear it, but . . . :winkgrin:

One thing I want to mention about “polls.” That’s a VERY self-selecting population they survey–on ANYTHING. Reason being, that they tend to call at dinner hour, and about 85% of EVERYONE slams the phone down and refuses to participate. So the only peeps they’re really “polling” are the ones engaged enough with the issue at hand, or perhaps bored enough, to devote 10 minutes of their time to being quizzed by some college kid with vague, multiple-choice leading questions. Again–average American–doesn’t give a rat’s.

[QUOTE=trubandloki;7916247]
I am always confused when the topic of slaughter comes up and people start saying others are pro-slaughter.

I do not think anyone is actually pro-slaughter. That is like saying someone is pro-abortion instead of saying they are pro-choice.

I am not against slaughter, that most certainly does not equal pro-slaughter.[/QUOTE]

That is a good point to make, that escapes so many, because it makes such a good, catchy “cause of the moment” for propaganda, “saving from slaughter!”

The reality is that only animal rights extremists would believe that banning slaughter makes any sense.
They don’t seem to understand how this world works, that everything alive is alive because something else died, animal or plant.

We are all natural, renewable resources, is how our world evolved.
A gazelle is a natural, renewable resource to lions and tigers and hyenas.
Mice are to most any other out there, even chickens will eat them.

As part of that, we should be mindful of what we use and try not to throw away senselessly so much, as we do.

That is one more reason why, other than in super rich, wasteful cultures as our own, most others over millennia have made that one more use of all kinds of some animals thru slaughter, including of SOME horses.

That, as you say above, doesn’t mean that now everyone that is not following animal rights extremists trying to eliminate all uses of animals is wanting to kill all and everything out there!

Slaughter is just one more process by which we use the natural, renewable resources SOME animals are for humans.
It is a better, more civilized way to use SOME animals than running them down and tearing them apart and eating them half alive, as other predators do in our world.

Slaughter is not inherently either good or bad.
Slaughter is as good or bad as it is regulated, inspected and managed, just as any other out there we do.

To make judicious, proper use of our resources is just the natural order of the world and for humans, slaughter is but one part of how we do that.

Remember, animal rights extremists are against ALL and any use of any animals, including thru slaughter, banning horse slaughter one more handy stepping stone to, eventually, change the world into “one without any animal slaves in human hands”.

As one of them told us right here, on COTH, “the world would be better off without humans”.
As the humans we are, that makes so much sense, does it.

This is really a topic for another thread, we had enough of these before, if anyone wants to do a search for them and become better informed about all this.

The world WOULD be better off without humans, and THIS thread proves it! :lol: