Yes.
But do you know the story you heard was actually true? If so, how?
Im not sure why OP is being jumped on in this manner. I said it up thread and will say it again, I would want to know.
If the seller didn’t tell me and someone else did, Id be eternally grateful for that knowledge. If the seller did tell me, I would say “Thank you OP, Seller did let me know this information already but thank you for looking out.” I get NO vibe here that OP is deliberately trying to throw the seller under the bus for barn dramas sake; none. @findeight I feel like you are making just as many assumptions soapbox style from OPs comments on this thread as you accuse her of making in this real life conundrum.
@demidq - I hope the buyer does reach out to you. If you haven’t already, you could ask the BO/BM if perhaps they know about the EPM diagnosis and treatment and whether or not the the new owner is aware of this.
This story could end in any multitude of fashions. It’s good for OP to be aware of that which it seems she is. I will say it again. I would want to know if I were in the sellers shoes. A friend just went through EPM diagnosis and started Marquis this week for treatment. Her horse has been off since she purchased her over several years ago…not enough to totally point to looking at EPM, but it got there. IF this was previously diagnosed and communicated, it would have saved them a couple years and a couple horse/human accidents.
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Yes, after the fellow boarder talked to me, I asked someone who knew the horse who confirmed it.
Of course it’s easier when the horse is in your community and there are multiple touch points.
And I understand that sometimes a past problem is not a current one. Right before I rode that horse I had another on trial. I love the horse, had a full PPE which revealed an old fracture to the coffin bone that hadn’t healed correctly. I do not think the previous owner was aware as he got horses off the track and flipped them. Because I wanted to event, my vet thought the poorly healed coffin bone was a liability. I passed on the horse and as far as I know, he never had any issues, although he was only jumped in a ring.
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Agreed.
I feel like, if it were me in this situation, how I would personally handle it would vary.
If I knew/had a very strong reason to believe the seller did not disclose and the new buyer was entirely unaware, absolutely, I’d disclose.
If I wasn’t certain but still had concerns/suspicions, I’d maybe try to suss this out first and see what happened and likely keep my mouth shut unless human or horse were in imminent danger.
That inclines me to believe she would disclose medical history. (also is there a reason you replied to me specifically?)
The handful of folks I’m aware of/know by reputation who deal in restarting and selling OTTBs are noooooot the types who would string someone along or lie about the horse, at least not intentionally. It would be bad for business and bad for the horse if they did. Not saying all are like the few I know of/know by reputation (I wouldn’t say I know these people past following their social media accoutns) but I’d lean towards “probably honest” with that additional info, yes even with the quick turnaround time. Lot of the folks who do this deal with both sporthorse and racing people and racing people are absolutely a different type (whether good or bad) than the sporthorse or general horse lover horse owners and not typically as sentimental, at least in my observation of a multitude of racing folks from the one season I worked at a TB track.
Apologies - I never meant to imply you couldn’t be tactful but the way you phrased approaching them didn’t read as the most tactful initial approach. And the best way to avoid barn gossip or drama is, generally, to mind one’s own business.
If you don’t care what the owner thinks then have at it but I personally wouldn’t be so quick as to assume new owner is in a situation at all similar to a situation I’d previously experience, were I in such shoes as to have to tell someone this.
Bingo.
This - allllll of this.
This is what I have been saying all along and I get a chorus of (mentally sing this to a jazzy-sounding generic tune for max effect) basically, “B-b-b-but IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII’DDDDDDD want to KNOOOOOOOOOOOW.” (not those exact words, I’m joking, chill people, jokes are allowed.)
We’re not “jumping on.” I think you’re reading too much into this. Lot of us on here have been on the barn drama rodeo circuit before.
Buyer’s.
EDIT: To clarify at no point have I said that, if unaware, the buyer should be kept in the dark and at no point have I said the buyer should never ever be informed or anything like that. All I have said, all along is “OP is making an awful lot of assumptions,” and knowing now the horse came from someone who routinely deals in retraining TBs (and yes I know, dishonest sellers exist, etc.) and selling them, I have even more doubt that buyer is wholly unaware. OP is free to do as she wishes. I would advise telling buyer IF it is actually reasonable to make all these assumptions, I just question if it’s reasonable to make so many assumptions.
Yeah, I agree. Not sure why the pile on and the dreaded passive aggressive approach of “quoting for posterity” unless the thread is a train wreck which this isn’t.
OP, there are horses that are competing after being treated for EPM so this may not be a dire outcome. Watch and see.
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It’s so far from it! 
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I was able to get some info from the mare I just bought’s old vet just by calling them and asking about a couple notes on the one page record the owner sent me. Maybe every vet is different and I do not mean this snarkily, but I have never seen a hippa form for a horse vet. Plus aren’t vets always supposed to care more about the animal. “Yes I diagnosed Dobbin with xyz while whatshername owned him. If you would like to go over the horse with me and we can discuss my findings due to knowledge of him, I would be glad to schedule an exam/new patient consult with you and Dobbin to see where he is at with everything and if anything new has cropped up.”
I am sure some vets will NOT do that if they are worried about losing a big client in Dobbins seller, but again…horse first in my humble non vet opinion.
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Not sure that would be appropriate, Liz- could be grounds for a complaint to the vet college. Records paid for by an owner belong to that person, even if horse is sold. The information could only be shared with permission from person who paid. Is this correct, any vets here?
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Years ago I wanted old x-rays of a horse I was buying. I found the vet but until he got permission from the previous owner, would not release them to me. I think that’s pretty standard.
The breeder, who had owned the horse when the films were taken, was very accommodating and it all worked out, but not without her okay.
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I can verify because I’ve been in the situation. Bought a horse, came across medical issues, really needed to see the horse’s medical history. Previous owners refused to release records and there was absolutely nothing I could do. The owner must consent to releasing records. It didn’t matter if the horse was dying, the vet office could not release the records without permission. Proof of ownership, transfer of ownership, etc., did not matter. Since then, I’ve learned to get records released prior to sale.
I’ve also previously worked in several vet hospitals as a practice manager and this is standard.
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I suspect that the reason is that the owner at the time paid for the records and so enjoys a type of ownership of them. Although the vet keeps a file and information, maybe in their eyes technically that information actually belongs to the owner that paid for it.
I sounds a bit like the attorney approach to ‘work product’. If someone paid for their work, that work won’t be released to another human being. It doesn’t matter what the next person’s relationship to the subject is.
An example is if someone pays an attorney to draw up a blank contract form for purchasing horses, something they do several times a year. Someone else hears this as a remark and wants to get a copy so they can use it as well. The attorney won’t give it too them, because they are not the client that that paid to have it done. The next person would have to hire the attorney to do a new, different contract for themselves. Only the person who requested and paid for the original blank contract could share it, and they certainly don’t have to.
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According to AVMA:
“Information within veterinary medical records is considered privileged and confidential. It must not be released except by court order or consent of the owner of the patient. Veterinarians are obligated to provide copies or summaries of medical records when requested by the client.”
When I worked in the vet field, it was always explained to us as a matter of privacy versus payment or ownership of records. A client could be listed as the owner and have someone entirely different pay the bill but the client listed on the account as the owner was still the one entitled to privacy, not the person who paid.
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I guess I got lucky then or maybe they talked to me because the owner had already asked for a copy of the record be sent to me? You think they would make you sign something though like you do at a doctor’s office or lawyer’s office.
I can see it from that point of view I had not thought about that before. I still think if it is going to be that big of a legal thing that they should make you sign something when you sign up the horse as a new client just like you have to in a doctor’s or lawyer’s office. But that is just my “I wish the world was all hearts and flowers” train of thought I guess.
I did not know that - the owner is the privacy point, even if someone else pays. Very interesting!
I wonder if there are vets who ignore this and will share information that should be private with ‘favored individuals’. I can imagine that a trainer who does a lot of business with them might get a whisper of information about a horse they are considering for a transaction, if they asked. If both sides kept quiet, no one else would ever know.
This thread is 2 years old but I was thinking about the situation and thought I might say what happened.
In the end I never had the opportunity to discuss the EPM dx with the new owner. New owner did not work with a trainer or have the horse in a programme. She came out every couple of weeks to ride the horse for a short time in the arena and was clearly nervous. The horse looked ‘off’ to me, and was very spooky. The first time she rode out on the trail she rode with 2 other quiet solid citizens of horses. Her horse spooked badly, she shrieked and horse took off galloping flat out. She came off and broke her leg badly and needed 2 operations to repair. She was on crutches for 3-4 months.
Owner did send the horse off to a cowboy type trainer for 6 weeks while she was out of commission. The poor horse came back seriously underweight and with bad rain scald. To top it off, the barn help noticed a few days after his return that he had a draining lump under his jaw. Strangles. The whole barn was locked down for 6 weeks. Thankfully only one other horse became infected. This was obviously not the owner’s fault but an unfortunate event none the less.
The horse never came quite right. His co-ordination seemed off, he looked weak in the hind end and remained very spooky. Owner tried to sell him for a few months before sending him to auction.
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What a sad story.
Who encouraged the owner to send the horse to auction? I wonder.
Owner was frightened of the horse, not surprisingly, and just wanted him gone. Maybe her husband encouraged this. Very sad from start to finish.
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Thank you for the update. While I hate to hear the outcome, I appreciate you coming back to the thread with the info. It’s frustrating when interesting threads are left without resolution.
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