So at Devon this year the person who won A/O 18-35 also won champion in Adult Amateur 3’3". I thought the idea of Adult Amateur was to progress upward slowly in A/O. Should one who is obviously very capable of doing 3’6" be showing in 3’3" as well? It’s only 3", but it can make quite the difference for many people and their horses. I just think it goes against fair play.
My interpretation of your question is that you’re not asking if this is against the rules, you’re asking if it seems like fair play, so I’m going to answer it that way.
There are some things that definitely get the raspberry and two thumbs down from me on the question of fair play. For example, people who are clearly experienced and capable of doing well in W-T-C classes entering both the W-T and W-T-C classes at the same show. However, your example just isn’t really ringing the outrage bell for me.
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The 3’3” division is also an amateur owner division and not an adult amateur division. You must own the horse.
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Yeah,3’6” and 3’3” are both AO divisions. There’s no 3’3” AA. !ong as she owns both horses, she’s fine. Same horse cannot do both at the same show though.
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Wouldn’t bother me if someone did the 3’ AA and the 3’3" or 3’6" AO at the same show. By the rules, they would have to do it on 2 different horses. Maybe one horse isn’t as far along. Or maybe one horse maxes out at 3’. Who cares. Perfectly within the rules to do it and I don’t understand why it would bother anyone.
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I’m looking at the results for Devon and I’m not seeing an Adult Hunter division. And the Champion of 3’6 A/O was not the same as the Champion A/O 3’3" in the under 35 sections. The Champion for the A/0 under 35 was Reserve Champion 3’3" A/O. I think Zones may have different specs in regards to A/O competing in the Adults at the same show. I don’t think there are any rules about A/O cross entering between the 3’3" and 3’6" heights. Also I believe the Adult Hunters height is 3’ not 3’3".
Doesn’t bother me. I don’t view the 3’3” A/O as a lesser division than the 3’6” (not much anyway). Yes, some people progress from one to the other but it also depends on the horse. Some horses can’t do the 3’6” anymore because of age. Some people don’t want to do the 3’6”. I could go on but you get the idea. So many factors come into play…
This, plus it was 2 different horses.
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In zone 10, there is no cross entry between AA and AO hunters. Other zones are different. I once won out over Fran Dotoli on this as she assumed that all zones were the same. Never occurred to her that California might be different.
To make things interesting there is a 3’ AO division at shows run by Blenheim at the Oaks and Showpark. No cross entry between that and either the AAs or the real AOs.
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I’m in zone 10 and just don’t understand this rule. I only have one horse so it doesn’t affect me but I have friends who would love to show one in AA’s and the other in A/O’s. Just don’t understand the logic. We have the 3’ A/O’s at some shows in Nor Cal too.
So long as it’s within the rules, there is no problem. There are lots of reasons why one might show one of your horses in the 3’3" and one in the 3’6", including protecting the 3’3" horse’s first year green status.
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I am an AO rider. I show my experienced hunter in the 3’6" division. I also have a young horse that I show in the AA’s. I think that’s fair, since it’s a different horse. But when I travel to California to show, I must choose which horse to take as the rider cannot cross enter divisions. It is frustrating to have to leave one horse behind.
When I go the TBird and show in week long and 2 week shows, the 3ft3 AO hunters go on the weekends, and because of the “no cross entering with adult amateur 3ft classes” that go at the beginning of the week, everyone solves this by entering the “open” divisions…ie, large hunters 3ft! To me, it’s a completely baffling rule, as AO and adult amateur are ALL amateur riders, so I really don’t get it…but it is what it is so I play by the rules! (Rules do state that we can cross enter 3ft and 3ft3 just not AO and adult amateur!)
Which is why Zone rules need to be consistent, however I have found that shows really don’t police the zone rules. Either it is because the stewards are from other zones and don’t know the rules of the zone they are hired to officiate at, or they don’t care. On three occasions, at three different venues in Zone 10, cross entry restrictions occurred and even when pointed out to the office staff and stewards, nothing was done. As Peggy has mentioned previously, knowledgeable, credible people, do not know zone rules. I prefer rule consistency across the country. USHJA has a different opinion.
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I would think that registration is handled by the show office, and that the folks on the ground during the show aren’t in a position to adjudicate this kind of thing.
If something is allowed by the rules its fair.
If something is not allowed by the rules but everyone ignores that rule it is still a level playing field.
If different zones have autonomy to set this kind of rule, it can’t be considered such an important thing by the national organization. What other kind of rules do zones have autonomy to change?
Seems some confusion on USEF rated divisions. Amateur Owner Hunter is at 3’6” and the only recently added 3’3” heights, rider must own the horse. Any other A/O heights might be offered BUT they would not be USEF rated or get National points, just whatever local club is hosting non rated classes at rated shows.
Adult Amateur is 3’. Dont have to own the horse. Usually can ride an owned horse in the A/O and another horse, owned or not, in the AA. Or ride a different owned horse in each A/O height. Cross entry restrictions may apply depending on zone rules.
I think what OP may not realize is there is now a 3’3” A/O which did not exist until a few years ago or that Devon does not offer the 3’ AA. And the traditional progressing up the height levels still happens but with so many time challenged , often older, riders happy to stay at 3’ on very nice horses who aren’t going to be competitive at 3’6, we now have many specialist horses populating these classes. IMO there’s not a thing wrong with that.
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I agree with many here - absolutely nothing wrong with it. I also think that saying showing in the 3’6” A/O means you “shouldn’t” be showing in the 3’3 as well makes this a skill-based question which isn’t necessarily right. The horse might be maxed out at 3’3. There’s absolutely nothing that says 3’3 A/O riders aren’t as skilled as 3’6 A/O riders. Some? Sure. But I don’t think the 3’3 is a stepping stone division and it’s used for people who aren’t quite at 3’6 yet - many are exactly where they want to be, and are quite good and competitive!
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Watch out you pearl clutchers, I have been known to show in the 2’6 modified adults, 3’ a/a, 3’3 a/o, 3’6 a/o AND do a derby at a single show. Four horses, three I owned, one I did not, all levels of greenness. Hunters are NOT ABOUT the level of the rider, unless specifically restricted in that way. Back before they limited a/o riders to a single non owned horse, I would catch ride several in various divisions. All well within the rules of the time.
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Agree with the above, that hunters are not about rider level unless specifically stated in division specs. Like it or not, this is true across juniors and amateurs as well as pros.
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