AA show barns and turnout

As others have written, at most facilities turnout is a matter of logistics. There are many factors that come into play. Cost of land in that area, amount of land available, drainage of land, durability of grasses, weather/footing conditions, labor issues, dietary needs of horses, etc. For a training, barn, you really need horses in a stall, clean and ready to go during working hours if you ever want to get any work done. Retrieving and cleaning wet or super dirty horses so they can be ridden is a lot of extra work for grooms. Letting your paddocks get trashed and then rehabilitating them with lime, fertilizer and seed is also quite expensive and quite a bit of work–and you need to rest the paddock anyway. So there really can be some wisdom in not allowing your paddocks to get trashed.

I’m a big fan of turnout, but a boarding/show barn is a business. Trashing the paddocks and having sopping wet muddy horses standing out in fields when the owners come to ride or the trainer needs to get on is simply not a winning business strategy. As Jsalem points out, there also is a lot of pressure for barns to be located where land costs are higher, which again limits turnout availability. Also, turnout is not always something customers are willing to pay for–for a show horse customers are going to prioritize facilities and training services above turnout.

Even marketing plays a role in the turnout decision–higher end barns want their barn represented by grassy paddocks without muddy/dusty areas. The only way to have grassy paddocks without mud or dust is to limit turnout (or have a ridiculous number of paddocks).

Also from a marketing standpoint, customers respond poorly to turnout injuries. Whether it is a bite mark, a cut, a pulled shoe, or some other kind of injury, IME customers are more likely to blame the barn for injuries that occur during turnout. The barn was at fault for turning the horse out in poor footing, or something spooked the horse that shouldn’t have, or the horse was upset and someone should have seen it and brought the horse in sooner, the horse shouldn’t have been turned out with whatever other horse it was with, etc. Oftentimes, owners are a driving force to limit turnout as they feel that limiting turnout time can help control the likelihood of turnout injury. When an owner is spending thousands of dollars per month on training and showing, the last thing they want to hear is that their horse had a turnout injury that in their mind could have been avoided if the horse’s turnout had been more carefully limited. I don’t agree with this, but it’s a pretty common mindset.

The good news is that many show barns have good strategies to keep their horses happy. The horses may have limited turnout, but they get a lot of daily attention in various forms. Exercise, grooming, bathing, walking/handgrazing, time on the theraplate, etc. Horses like routine, and many horses can adapt well to a life with less turnout given a good routine.

Personally I think this working student would be well advised to observe and learn. Running an equine facility is a VERY complex job and I think it is unlikely that a WS could walk in the door and do it better than the seasoned pro that hired her.

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I used to work at Hunterdon, and we didn’t turn out. The horses hand walked to graze and did a long hand walk Mondays.

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I feel as though there are more negative consequences to no turnout than there is to day long turnout. Just purely anecdotal on my part.

The working student could certainly tactfully ask about the trainers turnout philosophy. The WS may have to accept she doesn’t have any control over the matter and just learn as much as possible.

I hate our winter turnout. Horses stand in the box 24/7, some use the exercise walker, some may get small paddock turnout for a few hours if you do it yourself. It puts the burden on me to have to work my horses every day. Long line, ride, or longe. I think it is completely unnatural for a horse to stand in a box November through May. Then the BO gets mad that the horses run on the fields come May. Well no sh*t. I think being inside so much can lead to respiratory issues and even make them more prone to injury when exercised. There are some barns here and there that actually know how to set up a winter turnout rotation and preserve their fields for summer. What a concept.

If the horses get 2 hours out and hard work, then that is better than nothing at all. Still sucks though.

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Obviously the cost to keep, say, a 30’ x 30’ paddock in good condition is going to be sky high
 But if you at all have enough space, the cost to lime/spray/etc. pasture can come straight off the hay bill.

But then, I bet the labor doing the pasture remediation gets paid at a higher rate than the labor (working student) doing all the hand grazing


Not all areas have grass. Others need to be seeded with more desirable varieties and/or require irrigation. Don’t assume anything can come off the hay bill based on them replacing the calories with pasture grass.

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I personally would rather see a facility full of “ugly” dry lots than pretty green grass, if it meant my horse got more turnout. But I know I’m the minority.

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The nice thing is we all get to decide for ourselves how we want OUR horses to be kept.

I’d take stall to bad fencing/holes all other things being equal


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Yes, I suppose it does depend on your turnout situation. I would of course choose a stall vs turning my horse out in a junkyard :winkgrin: Fortunately my stable has nice fields May-Nov and then the whole country is a mud pit.

yeah when my horse and I were in a junkyard, I just handwalked.

Not a joke.

Worst trip to Florida ever.

#wilddogs

At this point, I am not surprised by any scenarios involving horse people :lol: we have a knack for adventure, eh?

But then there are those horses that I see I’m turnouts with various scrap metal, farm equipment, and questionable fencing that probably never have a mark on them or a lame step. Then there’s the horse down the road with immaculate fencing and well groomed turnout that manages to mangle himself on nothing.

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When I rode and showed with a BNT, she understood that my TB had to have night turn out. Both at home and away (where possible). At WEF he had a paddock (we stabled just down the road) which was much better for him than just several hours of t/o. After he showed, he was wrapped and at dusk turned out for the evening


Have found that is directly related to the value of the horse. Some old rascal that hasn’t seen a brush in years can stand on whats left of a wrecked car surrounded by several junked tractors with various rusting farm implements on a huge pile of manure with 6 other fat but otherwise mostly unkept horses in a one acre pen, Property was enhanced by an old barn with the roof caved forming one side of the enclosure, barbed wire the other 3 sides. Drove past that every day for 5 years (it’s a golf course now).

If you buy an expensive horse, put it in a fancy barn with deep bedding and lush green pastures, it will roll under the immaculately white painted 4 board fence, get cast and need 6 stitches, or starts a fight and looses. Worst case steps out, finds something in the well groomed paddock to trip over and snags a leg (true story).

I swear, unattractive, virtually unrideable animals of unknown age and lineage are indestructable, will easily live to 30 and die in their sleep.

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Our horses go out anywhere from 12-14 hours.

Some people arent happy about it, especially because they go out at 3pm which is the hottest time of day in the summer. It’s pretty miserable for those who ride after work and they’ve been out for 2-3 hours in the blazing sun with full neck flysheets, muzzles and flymasks on.

I definitely think there is some truth to this!

But, another factor to consider is that part of what makes turnout “safe” is a 1) familiar environment with familiar surroundings, 2) a familiar routine and 3) familiar, trusted equine friends (even if they are simply in the next paddock over). So show horses that tend to go to be moved around, be leased and sold fairly frequently, and that travel to shows and are housed at barns with other horses with similar lives often have fewer of these factors in their favor. Horses are prey animals, so they are designed to notice and be disturbed by small changes.

For example, a horse that has lived in the same old junky paddock for years knows by heart where the obstacles are and can totally relax in the company of trusted long term herd mates. That same horse is comfortably aware of every detail in the world that surrounds his paddock. That horse would rarely bother to run around like crazy because in a herd it is bad manners to make everyone else feel like they are supposed to run around also.

A show horse that has been traveling/showing for the past two weeks might come home to find that the shavings pile has moved, there’s a new neighbor in the next paddock over, and might be feeling flighty due to the breeze or some irritating flies–and there’s no trusted friend for company who will run a lap and then say, “hey, why don’t we just slow down and graze now.”

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A lot of you live wonderful existences surrounded by lots of land, I guess. :slight_smile: I do wonder if the choice came down to no horses in your life or providing the best options you can in your area what you would do.

In CA, all day turn out is uncommon. Half day is a stretch at most facilities
even the ones that aren’t A show barns. The land is just too darn expensive. Anything over 30 minutes a day would be considered excellent.

I bought a horse from VA that was used to 12 hour turnout and she adjusted just fine. Sure, I can feel when she misses her daily turnout for a few days, but she’s just fine with the schedule she’s on now. She gets between 15 minutes and 3 hours
the shorter times are definitely her choice
the longer ones are subject to whatever is happening that day at the barn. I do handwalk her and take her out to graze where there is grass, for a change, but she’s not suffering by any means.

My choices are no riding at all (because would it really be intellectually honest to still ride other horses if I thought how they were being kept was cruel enough to not own one) or doing the best I can by my horses. They are fat, shiny and happy, so i’m pretty sure I’m doing alright.

Horses are prone to running in “ugly dry lots” and other vices because they get bored. So, those dry lots increase the risk for injury.

It’s not uncommon for successful Kentucky stallions worth millions of dollars to be turned out overnight or longer, especially in the off season. gasp

Mares worth millions even live outside with friends! The horrors!

It has even come back in style to turn out horses in race training, although the logistics of the backside prevent it in many situations because there isn’t space for proper paddocks. But go to a training center or farm and it’s not uncommon to see horses in race training turned out, sometimes even turned out together!

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I’m with you :slight_smile:

I made the tough (for me) choice to move my mare from a barn with 24/7 turnout on 30 acres to one with dry lot turnout rotated in with turnout on smaller grass pastures. I needed more feeding options. better riding facilities/access to coaching, and a shorter commute.

She is out 9-12 hours/day (longer in summer, shorter in winter). The majority of this time, she is in a good sized gravel dry lot. She has room to move around and stretch her legs, she is in the fresh air, and she can see/hear all of her buddies and interact with her neighbours.

I provide her with a slow feed haynet and constant hay, but even the horses who don’t have that aren’t usually bored. They are pretty content to be out moseying about and taking in the scenery. I personally think horses should have access to 24/7 forage, but so long as my own horse is good and the other ones are healthy, not my circus etc.

In the summer, everyone gets minimum 2 hours daily turnout on grass pasture. Some horses are able to go out in small groups (2s and 3s) and they are often able to stay out a little longer. The space is limited, but the BOs are fastidious about care of the property and maintaining the pastures and paddocks, and the horses are all very happy.

What another poster mentioned about routine and interaction is very true. There are 20 horses at this barn and they are all happy healthy campers. They are handled several times daily and all of them (minus 2 of the BOs retirees) are in active training and ridden several days per week, which keeps them busy and exercised.

I do like my mare to be able to get out in the world and move about more, so I take her on the trails. We have an on-property trail through the woods, and we can hack about the driveway and around the paddocks. We also have access to many many kilometers of logging roads, and I take advantage as much as possible.

I wouldn’t board at a barn with 2 hours of turnout daily. That doesn’t work for me, and if I were in the position to be at a tip top show barn, I would have to find one with turnout routines that suited my needs. If I were a working student at a barn that had this practice, I would try to learn as much as possible. Maybe my opinion would change, maybe it wouldn’t. I definitely wouldn’t start out by suggesting large scale management changes to the trainer I was supposed to be learning from - but if it turned out I couldn’t reconcile management practices with my own views on horse welfare/care, I just wouldn’t work for that person anymore. Pretty easy :slight_smile:

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Blemishes don’t count off in racers and they don’t have to buy a fake tail if their Hunters gets chewed half off. Even the fanciest show barns lack the room for lavish pastures and group turnout, they work with carefully selected pairs in an overgrazed acre paddock. Apples and oranges.

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I work at a BNT barn and our turn out is basically individualized. We prefer the horses to go out all night - in winters around 4pm to 7am and in the summer 7pm to 6am. Our day time horses go out in the winter at 7am and come in at 11am and in the summer go out around 6:30am and come in at 10am. Summer is due to the heat, sun, and the bugs.

We we have a couple of horses who have been injured and the vet said to do day turn out so we can monitor if they run around or act stupid and we have one who literally has to be baby sat by a worker in a 50x50 paddock, where she lasts maybe an hour.

A lot of times there’s good reasons behind the turn out, and some horses mentally don’t need to be out for 12 plus hours, or can be out that long.

The reason I fund hunters stupid and boring. Fake tails, ugh.

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