Hahaha. Aren’t there other, good, reasons to find the hunters stupid and boring? I mean I love hunters…and I think fake tails are stupid, but I feel like saying it’s a reason to not like the discipline is like not liking a house because of the colors of the paint inside. 
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Haven’t read all posts, but… I currently board with a trainer who would not blink about firing anyone who questioned her.
Unless, person would like to leave, the best choice is always to agree, even if you do not personally agree.
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If you don’t show seriously in judged events of any type, appearance, first impression and possibly conformation do not factor heavily or at all into your scores so it’s not that big a deal. Everybody is welcome to an opinion, looking down at those you disagree with and passing judgement does not leave the door to increasing your knowledge base open.
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Thank you for your articulate reply to my rash comment.
However, I find that the activity (not calling it a sport) of watching overweight horses lumbering around the ring with their riders dramatically flinging themselves up their necks to make it look like something is happening is unwatchable. All the more so, since the horses are so often mistreated in the effort to get them tame enough for the artificial standards in play today. I stand by my statement.
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You lump all Hunters and all Hunter riders into your universal dislike based on your observations then wonder why a Hunter owner and rider might question your universal judgement. I stand by my statement not every Hunter and their rider deserves to be so quickly accused, judged and dismissed. Without ever seeing them.
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At least it’s a reason with more substance. 
I disagree and think Hunters are the best, but I don’t mind being dismissed for a more substantive reason
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Wow. Ouch.
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It kills me when people say that a particular horse “only lasts 30 minutes in turnout”. Maybe its because horses are HERD ANIMALS and hate being turned out by themselves where they get no social interaction. I had the same philosophy about my super fancy hunter that I bubble wrapped years ago. He does LOVE his stall and we used to always joke that he would be begging to come inside when standing at the gate or running around. No. Just NO. This horse has since moved to a few different barns and we have been forced to try out different living situations for him. Turns out all he wanted was a friend. He still loves his stall and practically naps immediately when inside and is content but is also just as happy outside with a buddy. If I was to try to turn him out solo again I would be dealing with the horse that “can only tolerate being out for 30 minutes” all over again.
Horses are animals that thrive on movement, grazing, social interaction and routine. Yes, some can adapt and deal with being inside quite a bit, but the argument that some horses hate being outside is total bull. If your horse hates its turnout then the horse clearly isn’t fond of its current program or turnout routine.
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The fanciest show barn near me does not do turn out. The facility doubles as a wedding venue so the paddocks must be pristine at all times. The get hand walked, lunged, or eurocised.
In my experience on the east coast, any barn that I’ve worked in the goal has always been to increase turnout as much as permissible. Things that limited turnout at different barns would be either the barn’s desire to keep their paddocks looking pristine, and/or particular horses that were not as fond/neurotic in certain turnouts. For the latter, when a horse worth more than many houses, they may just turn out during the day w/ boots on because the risk of him hurting himself while not being watched was too high.
I’ve never met anyone who specifically didn’t want their horses turned out for longer periods of time, it’s always been a matter of either convenience or some level of risk management.
My personal preference would be an all-night 12-14 hour/turnout. My mare is able to do this, and it works quite well. My stallion is not. While I believe the same time of turnout would be beneficial, I also feel more comfortable knowing he’s on turnout while the barn staff are awake and around. Consequently, I may be more inclined to make sure he at least goes on the walker or goes on a long hack. You can usually tell too if a program/system isn’t working for your horses. Both are comfortable and pleasant, my stallion on lesser turnout is happy to come in to his stall and is pretty pleasant, less the occasional sass, to ride. I wouldn’t be as quick to judge a program, unless I could see that the actual horses were uncomfortable or unhappy.
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wow. that’s super offensive. You obviously have no idea what it takes to get a top of the line hunter fit and in condition to show at a high level. You have probably never competed at a high level. In order to hold up to the stresses and demands of showing , especially at 3’6 or better, multiple classes a day, multiple days of the week, those horses have to be fit, sound and healthy. Just because they carry more weight then a jumper, or a WB then a Tb, doesn’t mean they aren’t athletes. Try getting one ready for an International, or even a National Derby sometime.
Not only do they have to be fit, they have to be happy, or they won’t be winners. My horses aren’t drugged, thank you very much, they get as much turn out as possible, and guess what; I am not an anomaly; most show barns do have some sort of quality turnout.
My guess is that you’ve never been directly involved with a show barn before. You should try to learn something about it before you pass judgement
Rant over
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:yes:
My gelding was turned out in the off-season while he was a race-horse, full turnout. When I went to pick him up after purchasing him at the Finger Lakes Track, the shed-row I went to had a few horses standing in the dirt lots. The trainer of that shed-row said he hated stalling his horses.
When we visited the Watral’s farm to pick up a free race reject, his yearlings were in a herd situation and his horses in training in nice, beautiful paddocks. There was a race-fit horse being walked on a hot-walker while there were a few yearlings causing a rumpus in a paddock nearby. No hysterics. These were $$$ horses too.
So it can be done.
And a good race-horse, all told, has a much, much higher dollar value than a good hunter – so I don’t buy it that it’s a matter of logistics so much as it is a matter of people either not caring or preferring their horse have a life that is more convenient to them. Stalling is entirely a human convenience and is detrimental to horses. There really isn’t any other way to spin it - they adjust to it, some learn to like it, but it’s not conducive to their body health or their emotional health.
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Most people who show horses have one horse. Most thoroughbred facilities/breeders have significantly more than one horse. That and the business angle makes a pretty significant difference in a lot of things actually. You’ll find that many if not most purpose bred sport horses are raised similarly, lots if group turn out. But the logistics of those different farms and owners and available land and location and daily work habits of people and horses greatly influence how turn out is managed.
@TPF Hunter I actually have known one horse who hated turnout.
We tried him in a large group, with a single buddy, fully covered head to tail in mesh, and at one point his owner tried moving him to a smaller retirement style barn. When you put him outside he would run the fence to the point where you were afraid he would seriously injure himself (he would work himself up to blind-bolt type gallop if ignored). Eventually everyone gave up and let him stay in a stall with a run and just left the run open to the pasture at night in the summer. He rarely ventured out of that stall.
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I think that most horses who dislike turnout are that way because they’ve been stalled for all or most of their lives. I doubt that any horse (although there’s most certainly an exception!) that’s been turned out from the beginning ends up hating turnout. It’s just counterintuitive to horses’ DNA. Now a show horse that spends it’s life in a box and all the sudden gets put outside (usually alone)…well, it seems rational that they would feel insecure and want to come in to what’s familiar. But that’s a conditioned response, and I’ve seen many show horses learn to appreciate and finally love turnout after careful management.
There’s plenty of horses that seem to tolerate a mostly stalled existence, and some people literally don’t have an option due to location. However, I think by and large, turnout is the healthiest thing we can give our horses, and the general lack of it I think contributes to all of the things necessary to keep horses sound these days (injections, magnetic blankets, supplements, etc.).
I have known more than one person who preferred their horse inside for their own benefit (easier to keep clean, don’t have to catch, etc.) as well as those who blanket them in turnout even when it’s not weather appropriate for their own convenience. I strongly disagree with this attitude, which I say even having just come inside from cleaning 3 mudball horses. :o
I will also say that I fully believe there’s less opportunity for injury for horses who are on a regular and sufficient (large enough area and long enough duration) turnout schedule. Turning out after many days in is a recipe for disaster and injury, and too small of space increases the wrenching type injuries too. Not to mention, horses who are regularly moving around as they were designed to are overall healthier and the regular movement reduces inflammation and keeps muscles looser. I also believe in turning out at least with a buddy if not in a small herd.
ETA - having said all of that, it’s really no business of a working student or employee to question the boss about the barns turnout practices. They are that way because that is how the barn does it, and it’s extremely unlikely for your friend to change their boss’ opinion - and teeters on the edge of being downright inappropriate and disrespectful. If your friend disagrees strongly enough, it’s best they find another barn to work at that more closely mirrors their own animal husbandry beliefs.
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I agree with the rest of your post - sometimes you just have to make do with what you’ve got! - but I disagree with this. Our three go out in a large dry lot for 12 hours a day year-round, and over about 3 months of the summer they get a few hours of grass turnout while the pasture is nice (we have limited pasture and are in CO so we have to manage it very carefully or all the grass would be gone!).
They may be bored, but they display that mostly by napping in the dirt. The routine actually makes them less predisposed to run around, and they usually only do that when there’s a weather change or something.
But mostly, they groom each other, mosey around sniffing the dirt, eat their hay, and sleep. I wish they ran around more so they wouldn’t be fresh, lol!
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Just another reason why I continually question if showing is in the best interest of the horses. Having done it for years, the older I get and the more I see and learn, the more I think it’s really not fair to their nature. Just because they tolerate it doesn’t mean they should have to.
I’m not saying it’s cruelty or anything like that. But what if we could all (or most of us, at least) show more locally, let our horses live more naturally and enjoy them more? I have stopped chasing ribbons, points, and accolades at this point even though I still enjoy a well run competition. But now I make sure my horse gets to go home at night, to his stall next to his best friend, and go hang out in the pasture ALL DAY the next day (and most days, weather dependent!).
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Our horses are turned out at least half the day and are much happier/saner for it
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For sure there are exceptions. We had one very elderly TB that was neurotic. We tried everything, friends, different friends, solo turnout, drugs, yummy hay, daytime, nighttime, gastroguard, etc., etc. Granted he was neurotic in a stall too and just high strung all together. He was an OTTB with quite a long career so I attributed a lot of his behavior to being him only living in a stall for the first 6 years of his life.
So I will completely agree with @Mac123 that a horse that was raised primarily living in a stall can be uncomfortable or dislike being outside. However that’s not going to be the majority!
The story of my personal hunter isn’t my only experience dealing with a horse that “hated turnout” or could only tolerate it for short bits of time. We had several that would pace, run, neigh, and do all the things. It took a while to figure out each one, but we were able to discover what made each horse tick.
Sometimes it takes them being outside for several days for the horse to realize they are “ok”. Or it takes a few days for them to settle into a new routine It’s not fun to watch them stress but eventually they chill and for the long term goal its better for the horse. It’s just frustrating to hear from folks or even read on the “Behind the Stall Door” series that some horses hate their turnout. Makes me think they gave up too easily and resorted to more bubble wrap instead.
Just for the record… am completely aware that the geographical location of a barn can play a huge role in turnout times and amounts. I am specifically referring to the barns or people that have plenty of turnout but choose to bubble wrap a horse in a stall almost 24/7 because their horse “hates being out”.
Been in 3 AA level show barns. They all had some limitations on turn out due to physical lay out but they all had a turnout program ranging from 5 or 6 hours to all day in winter ( unless it was icy) to all night in summer depending on the horse, almost all went out with a buddy. Almost all spent the week after a hard show out. There’s a whole lot of generalization going on based on limited observation.
Do think some helicopter owners train their horses to " hate" turnout by running with treats every time it shifts weight…they do it in crossties too. When owner is absent, horse is fine. Minute they hear owners voice, they get agitated which produces a treat,
That said, horses like their stalls and routine too, can give them comfort and security. Many do best with a daily combination of both.
Do think we show too much but anybody who thinks that is unique to Hunters needs to get out in the real world more often. It’s up to the owner to participate in how their horse is managed and what compromises they are willing to accept selecting where to board and train with…and to just say no.
