? about breeder blistering stifles

[Parrotnutz]

I am posting here because I want an opinion from breeders.
I bought a warmblood/TB cross directly from the breeder last Nov. About a month later I noticed a locking stifle…3 months still locking…thank goodness not when riding only after standing around.
I played dumb and emailed the breeder and told her my vet wanted to know what she did for this problem <it was not disclosed to me at point of sale> She replied that she blistered his stifles at age 4 <now coming 7>. She claims she routinely blisters her horses stifles as their work load increases to strengthen them. I have only heard that standardbred people routinely will do this.

My question: Is this a common practice among breeders to blister a sound young horse to strengthen it’s stifles?
If you don’t want to post here please PM me…I am really curious as I have not ever dealt with this.

Thanks!

[Molly_Malone]

well I wouldn’t routinely do anything invasive to a sound horse. If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it!

[Parrotnutz]

[QUOTE=Molly Malone;6265004]
well I wouldn’t routinely do anything invasive to a sound horse. If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it![/QUOTE]

Thanks for answering. Have never dealt with locking stifle and don’t understand why the breeder said she does this routinely…Makes me go HHmmmmm

[Nootka]

I had a Racehorse trainer do this when the TB “popped an Ocelet” (I was 12 -now 31- and this horse had just come off the track). It seems it almost froze the joint and he did not pass the PPE when we decided to buy him. Vet said that he could stumble after a jump and come down. I know they are 2 different areas but still seems like it isn’t going to strengthen anything.

Curious about others thoughts on this

[ElegantExpressionsFa]

[QUOTE=Molly Malone;6265004]
well I wouldn’t routinely do anything invasive to a sound horse. If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it![/QUOTE]

^^This!!

[NoDQhere]

I think that is insane! For a few years we had a “trainer” in this area who loved to blister, mostly stifles, and feet to help the horse grow a better hoof! To this day, I don’t know a sound horse that ever came out of that program so my opinion would be that it doesn’t work :no:.

[Home_Again_Farm]

@Parrotnutz;6264795

My question: Is this a common practice among breeders to blister a sound young horse to strengthen it’s stifles?

In a word, no. :no:

[AppJumpr08]

I consider blistering in the same category as many other painful and pointless things. There are so many other options for increasing circulation to an area, I see no reason to use such an outdated and cruel option.

[MandyVA]

I call BS

There is no way any breeder routinely blisters young horses’ stifles just because. I don’t think any vet would even do it unless you tried the other options like 24x7 turnout and hill work first and that didn’t work. Besides, if you truly have a stifle problem, the vet is going to want to do something that will actually help.

She probably made this up because she sold you a horse without disclosing that it had stifle issues. And it makes no sense that she would say she does this routinely when your question was what had she done in the past for this problem. If it’s done for all her horses routinely why did she even know he had a stifle problem?

I’d be very mad.

[JustThatSimple]

I’ve blistered stifles- generally with a palmolive- but not young horses because of a tougher work load.

Older show horses with a sticky change, I’ve blistered before considering injecting.

However there is no reason why one would blister just because. I don’t know if blistering would provide much relief to a locking stifle- although if you blister once then keep her in regular work it might help.

[Blume_Farm]

I have two experiences with upward fixation of the patella. The first is my riding horse that last winter did an exuburant buck and fall on a lunge line that resulted in her hyperextending her right rear leg ending with upward fixation of her patella. It was so bad immediately that I thought she broke her leg!! I did all the hill work I had available to me which improved the problem at least 80% but there was still a little “hitch” so I had her blistered last summer. Took two more months of hill work and now she is comletely fine. I work with a highly respected board certified equine surgeon and blistering a stifle is his last effort protocol to helping resolve the problem.

The second one is my just turned 3-year old that off and on during his 2-3 year old years has had upward fixation of both his left and right patellas. This boy is super tall (16.2+ at 3 years old) and the vet feels it is all related to rapid growth and not being worked/ fit yet. He sees this commonly in a tall rapid growing horse and the vast majority of them resolve once they level out and beocme fit. This gelding is just getting started under saddle but I pony him on the hills at least 2X/ week. His stifles have improved at least 80% as well with just this limited amount of hill work. FWIW every person that has contacted me about the above horse (as he is for sale) I have been up front about this and send them the link below. If it comes to the point of him needing his stifles blistered I will consider it, but only after a serious fitness plan on the hills is executed and consultation with my vet. I would be absolutely forth coming with this information to a potential buyer. Like the OP’s horse it has thus far had no bearing on him moving forward (he is a lovely mover)…you only notice it if he trys to back up or lift a leg to pick out a foot…and only intermittently at that.

Having said all that and to answer the OP direct question…there should be no need to blister the stifles of every youngster. Yes, upward fixation of the patella is a common growth issue of larger horses but it should resolve as the horse matures and starts under saddle work. An exercise plan of hill work should be performed before any invasive procedure such as blistering. However, if that does not resolve the problem blistering can be an effective procedure to resolve the issue and lead to long term soundess.

Here are some really good links:

http://www.atlantaequine.com/pages/client_lib_UpPatellerFix.html

http://www.atlantaequine.com/pages/client_lib_IUPF.html

http://www.atlantaequine.com/pages/client_lib_PostBlisteringReco.html

http://www.atlantaequine.com/pages/fitness_training_sched.html

[Fairview_Horse_Cente]

No, we have never blistered ANY horse’s stifles - mine or a boarder’s. The horse we had that would occasionally lock - only when standing, I resisted any treatment on him for years, on the “if it ain’t broke” theory. I sold him to a young lady in my barn that also was fine not fixing a horse that was “not broke”. After a few years though, a vet mentioned trying estrogen on him. I believe they did 4 or 5 IM injections, not in the stifle, and he never had another problem with it.

[Parrotnutz]

[QUOTE=MandyVA;6265506]
There is no way any breeder routinely blisters young horses’ stifles just because. I don’t think any vet would even do it unless you tried the other options like 24x7 turnout and hill work first and that didn’t work. Besides, if you truly have a stifle problem, the vet is going to want to do something that will actually help.

She probably made this up because she sold you a horse without disclosing that it had stifle issues. And it makes no sense that she would say she does this routinely when your question was what had she done in the past for this problem. If it’s done for all her horses routinely why did she even know he had a stifle problem?

I’d be very mad.[/QUOTE]

Angry as hell…the breeder/owner told me soooo much about this horse ,including showing me her riding routine, and she did not want me to change is name. I thought there wasn’t a thing she had not told me.
So not disclosing the blistering fact leads me to believe there is a problem I am stuck with!!

[Claudius]

How about a more positive approach…

Not “a problem I am stuck with,” but how about, “a management issue.” I have owned or trained over a hundred horses and I can not think of ONE that did NOT have a mangement issue of one sort or another. Stifle issues need to be consistantly addressed for success. They are very common in young horses, often not diagnosed early…in tbs. it is common for the horse to show front end problems that often are the result of undiagnosed stifle weakness.This breeder may have experienced this and choose to be proactive with her young horses. People who deal with a lot of horses, instead of one at a time, make these kind of judgement calls because they have dealt with the results of “waiting til it’s broke” and choose to prevent rather than repair damage.

[Parrotnutz]

[QUOTE=Claudius;6265853]
Not “a problem I am stuck with,” but how about, “a management issue.” I have owned or trained over a hundred horses and I can not think of ONE that did NOT have a mangement issue of one sort or another. Stifle issues need to be consistantly addressed for success. They are very common in young horses, often not diagnosed early…in tbs. it is common for the horse to show front end problems that often are the result of undiagnosed stifle weakness.This breeder may have experienced this and choose to be proactive with her young horses. People who deal with a lot of horses, instead of one at a time, make these kind of judgement calls because they have dealt with the results of “waiting til it’s broke” and choose to prevent rather than repair damage.[/QUOTE]

Excuse me…but I thought I bought a “sound” young prospect! Full disclosure would have been my preference. I think of management issues in horses that are already working hard and showing…given a choide I would not have purchased a horse with issues I had to manage!! If an issue develops on my watch then I manage it.
This breeder has an extremely small operation.

[Emy]

First I think you need to clarify what “blistering” this horse received. People seem to be discussing external “blistering” of a horses stifle (?) I cannot imagine any possible benefit that could be derived from this. If the breeder had a Veterinarian “blister” the horses stifle ligaments to help aid its ability to correctly use the hind leg, everyone should take a deep breath. I work for a sport horse vet and injection of stifle ligaments with a plumping agent (in Canada we use Briodine - a combo of Iodine and Almond Oil) is considered a routine treatment for stifle related issues. It is not painful for them, generally small amounts are injected into the stifle ligaments to help thicken the ligaments up and prevent them from slipping off, catching and the hind leg from locking. Generally the catch-lock-pop cycle causes more discomfort for the horse than the injection ever will. Horses who can have conformational issues (straight, out behind hind legs) can improve from this simple and inexpensive treatment, with increased rideability and more willingness to step through from behind (think of someone with a bad knee, how hesitant they become when moving). Generally the treatment when combined with good riding, hill work etc can indeed strengthen stifles. But there is no way a Vet would have done this without assessing the horse and feeling it would benefit from the treatment…. does he have straighter hind legs? In regards to the Pre-Purchase disclosure I am afraid the injection of the stifle ligaments falls into ‘therapeutic treatment’ area - not a true lameness treatment like joint injections that must be disclosed. Personally I feel for you and wish you would have been told about it before purchase. In your Pre-Purchase Examination did the Vet mention or see any issues in his hind end or back?

[Laurierace]

I agree that blistering stifles isn’t that big of a deal but I don’t buy that it was done as a matter of course as opposed to in response to a problem. So like with most things I think your problem is deceptiveness.

[Emy]

Yes, I do agree with Laurie, somehow I missed that part about “routine”… I do not think a vet would blanket inject young horses if there was not a comformational or injury related reason to do so.

[RyTimMick]

I have known a few horses that had locking stifles. Two I know of were young, and had relatively upright confirmation in the back. When they rested too long, they were unable to unlock the patella before moving. The locking patella is how the horse can sleep while standing. The ligament which unlocks this, is either too week, or too long. The blistering thickens/shortens the ligament so when the muscle engages it, it pulls on the patella sooner, unlocking the patella sooner. One left the barn, and I was told later grew out of it. The other grew out of it, and is now doing 1.35m and looking to do mini-prix’s this year.

It has a lot to do with confirmation, and not enough angle in the stifle region. It has nothing to do with soundness unless the horse locks and then moves too quickly and hyperextends the knee. If the breeder has to do this all the time, she might want to consider changing her broodmare stock. An occasional yearling hear and there, I wouldn’t worry about it too much. If she blistered the stifle ligament years ago, I can see her not saying anything if she grew out of it. If it is stil there, she should have said something because you will have to manage it yourself. If hill work and proper strengthening doesn’t fix the problem, you may have to blister again.

Tim

[Parrotnutz]

[QUOTE=Laurierace;6266367]
I agree that blistering stifles isn’t that big of a deal but I don’t buy that it was done as a matter of course as opposed to in response to a problem. So like with most things I think your problem is deceptiveness.[/QUOTE]

BINGO!! I would have appreciated full disclosure…now I have stopped all “training” so I can spend the time trying to strengthen the stifles and am taking him to the clinic for a once over the end of the month to make sure it is just a weakness.

He is not straight in his hind legs…he is extremely short backed and shark withered so when I got him his back was slightly sore due to saddle fit the vet and I thought. I have a short backed saddle for him and his back seems better since he was accupunctured and have been riding him in the new saddle.