Ace (oral) restistance and other calming alternatives

[Bopper]

I have had several discussions lately with different horse people about calming agents for horses in different disciplines which brough about some questions for me.

1. What calming supplements/medications do you use for a situation where the horse gets anxious or strong in a competition setting (horse show or rodeo barrel racer)? Something that may reduce their anxiety without taking out the performance level needed for barrel racing, cutting, reining or a working cow class when speed of response is needed.
2. Has anyone had experience with a horse building up resistance to ace given orally? Specifically, a rodeo horse given ace regularly by mouth suddenly is not responding to the sedation.

If possible, a nice discussion without being judgmental would be great. I just am looking for opinions and experiences since this topic keeps coming up from a few riders in totally different disciplines and I would like to find out input from other horse people.

[Jealoushe]

Curious why a horse would need it daily?

I have not seen tolerance build up, but just anecdotally I have known a few horses to founder after long term regular use.

[Bopper]

Not necessarily daily but for every ride so maybe 5 days a week.or 2- 3 times a week.

[risuenaVT]

I am not opposed to the occasional use of ace, but using ace regularly from 2 times to even 5 times a week? That’s a lot! And if ace is needed that often and regularly then it seems to me that the horse and rider are not good matches. The couple of times I have ridden an aced horse, it’s been at the walk and trot in a round pen

A previous lease of mine who was a hot OTTB/ex-eventer did well on quiessence, which is a magnesium supplement, to the extent that I could tell when he hadn’t gotten his quiessence for a day or two. But I’m pretty sure that only works for horse who aren’t getting enough magnesium.

Personally, I would not be comfortable doing much more than a brief w/t session on a horse that was aced. I certainly would not want to jump or do timed patterns like barrel racing on an aced horse. And quiessence for one horse and very occasional ace in certain circumstances are the extent of my knowledge in this area

[Simkie]

Need for regular use of ace outside of a rehab setting probably means the horse needs a different job or should step back to build whatever foundational skills are lacking.

Asking the horse to perform, especially things that require reaction time and balance, on a sedative seems…risky. At best?

[Displaced_Yankee]

In a effort to keep this to your specific questions (and my own opinion only)

1. I don’t compete any horse on a calmer. I will bring the horse to a competition with the use of a calmer as a “non-compete”. The goal is to get the horse used to the show/competition environment. Whether it be being stalled overnight when it normally isn’t, rider show nerves translating to the horse or a busy environment. We use the warmup, enter non-competition classes and generally get a feel for the show environment. We may start with a higher calmer dose and utilize the warmup during the least busy periods. The goal is to wean off the calmer and build up the busy-ness. THEN we enter the competition.

Not every horse needs a calmer to go to their first show. But it helps some. Only you (or your trainer) will know. If you are consistantly running into run or class specific issues, I would evaluate the routine you have on show day. How has it changed from a day at home? Reducing anxiety during competition takes time and repetition, assuming you have no anxiety at home.

2. Not here. I don’t ride on Ace. I would evaluate:

• pain (saddle fit, teeth, ulcers)
• training (too much, too fast, too much run and gun?)
• care (hours of turnout, feed type or amount)
• behavior (ingrained from past?, not suited for the job?)

Daily use of a sedative just to ride indicates that the horse is not ready to compete (or ride in general) and is not normal. The horse is telling you that something is not ok.

I have had success with the supplements Ezium (magnesium) and the Perfect Prep feed through product when rehabbing or restarting horses. The goal is get those basic 15-45 of active walking done safely. Before we even think about trotting (after the vet signs off on restarting). If we can’t do that without “help” we keep walking.

I wish you luck. I hope you take a moment and step back and evaluate the basics again. It will only take time, not pumping them full of sedatives/calmers/supplements

[SusanO]

The only time I have used a long-term calming agent was when the horse was coming off a long period of stall rest - months. This was to avoid the horse performing suicide or homicide. I would never want to ride a horse on ace although I have heard of it being done. So, if there is a medical reason to calm or sedate the horse, then I am all for it. To get the horse to perform a job - I feel you need a better job for the horse, a better horse for the job or a lot of patience and training. I have a difficult horse, so I understand the frustrations.

[SLW]

The timing of the ace dosing is critical to its success. Once the horse is fizzy it won’t work much, if at all. If the horse is going to stand tied at the trailer for 2 hours waiting for its event you’ll have to figure out the best time to dose. And I hope you aren’t giving a gelding ace because it can cause problems, though rare, with the penis not retracting. The absorption rate of ace when squirted on the tongue isn’t as good as giving it IM.

The above presumes the horse isn’t being over-grained, has plenty of turnout, has a properly fitted appropriate bit, perfect saddle fit, has had a dental in the past 6 months and doesn’t have a gut full of ulcers.

[Bopper]

The questions don’t pertain to my horses. Recent conversations have brought about the questions. One incident told to me included that the horse was already very upset and when the sedative was given it had the opposite reaction, and a vet was eventually called because the horse was so overstimulated.

The conversations included some situations such as a barrel horse that is upset in the alley way. The horse is not going to suddenly come out of the sedation to run the barrels. It is either sedated the whole time and may not run well may tip a barrel or it is difficult to control in the alley due to the anxiety it has.

The other discussions about cow related events were more along the lines of a training aide but it seems like some riders were less interested in drilling down to the cause of the anxiety than finding something to immediately fix the situation.

There are times that due to a bad experience or with a horse that is just too worried that I think ace could help to get the horse to better learn to accept or deal with a stressful situation, but it has to be used judiciously.

It seems like in the last 2 months this has come up often, so I wanted more input from others. More comments are welcome.

[Jealoushe]

A horse doesn’t know it’s drugged. A horse who is drugged regularly becomes stressed and fearful when not drugged because they have no control over when the drugs happen and kick in. They have no control over being stoned or sober. They don’t understand what’s happening. Imagine living a life where you suddenly became tranquilized and you have no control when it happens and when it wears off. It’s not a training tool. It’s a medical tool.

I’m not opposed to people using it for specific necessary reasons. The whole ride on Ace regularly thing upsets me and confuses me though as to why people would do that.

[endlessclimb]

@Bopper

There are times that due to a bad experience or with a horse that is just too worried that I think ace could help to get the horse to better learn to accept or deal with a stressful situation, but it has to be used judiciously.

This is the only instance, outside of stall rest or emergencies, that I believe a sedative can be useful.

Five days a week is nuts! Edit: and I’ve got one that could really use it sometimes. I won’t even use “natural” calmers on a regular basis - I need to train the horse I have, not the one she is when she’s doped up.

[tabula_rashah]

I find this thread incredibly disturbing.

[Paint_Party]

5 days a week to mentally numb a horse enough that it’s not bonkers? That is insane.

I’m going to be blunt: Something is wrong with the training goals, the rider’s horsemanship, the schooling program and possibly the horse’s soundness. A horse that needs that much Ace or a calming agent on that regular basis is brain fried and it didn’t magically get that way on its own.

In contrast, my neighbors own several top tier barrel and pole bending horses. They are never drugged. Then again, those horses have a very structured training regimen that preserves their mental well-being. They also have tons of turnout and annual vacations where they just lounge around a grass pasture for 60 days.

But to answer the question… No, I have not known of a horse that developed a resistance to Ace. On rare occasions our barn uses it. An example might be a young horse that has had a traumatic experience loading or hauling and we’re trying to help it realize It’s Not So Bad. Ace is given on the tongue, in the crossties, while the horse is relaxed.

As for other competitions, NRHA decided to allow small doses of Sedivet before competition, allegedly because then they wouldn’t need to lope their reiners into submission for 30 minutes before a run. This was even though AAEP advised against it, since one of the side effects can be ataxia. I have enough trouble executing a decent reining pattern without my horse also being drunk so thank you but nopity nope.

[Bogey2]

I had a horse that started becoming anxious when he hit third level. The canter work to get changes was just too hard for him mentally. I went through all the diagnostics and came up empty. So you know what I did? I stopped asking him to do it and retrained him to be a lovely hack horse with lower level expectations. He was not happy doing what I wanted to do with him so I found him the perfect home with someone who just wanted to enjoy him as is.

I would never depend on a drug weekly to do something a horse was anxious about.
I also do focus and relaxation training weekly with my new young horse, a lot of what I learned from TRT.
ETA that Ace will make an already anxious horse worse

[Bonnie2]

To answer your actual question - yes horses do develop a tolerance to ace.
Edited to add: personal observation - I don’t know if there is scientific evidence.

[Ghazzu]

@Bonnie2

To answer your actual question - yes horses do develop a tolerance to ace.

Got any physiologic data on that or is it a clinical observation?

[NaturallyHappy]

@Ghazzu

@Bonnie2

To answer your actual question - yes horses do develop a tolerance to ace.

Got any physiologic data on that or is it a clinical observation?

I always enjoy your posts.

[Ghazzu]

@NaturallyHappy

I always enjoy your posts.

Thanks, but I am genuinely curious about this–it sent me off into a 20 minute literature search when I should be working on my lecture schedule outline.

[luvmyhackney]

Who in the heck drugs their horse to ride outside of a rehab situation under vet supervision?!?!?!

I have one that could totally use a quiet pill. Instead I’ve had to learn to ride better and work within his comfort zone. I do give ulcerguard when at shows or traveling, but not sure that is a calming med.

No clue about ace tolerance, I only give it on vets orders or sheath cleaning for one pony.

[Mosey_2003]

@luvmyhackney

Who in the heck drugs their horse to ride outside of a rehab situation under vet supervision?!?!?!

Overhorsed people would be my guess.

Color me amongst the disgusted.