Bought a 4 y/o gelding in Germany in 2009 and paid $28K for horse including commission , thorough vetting and shipping through quarantine. I think the horse himself was 15K Euro. This is a dressage horse, amateur safe, with fashionable bloodlines. I shopped in the US for about 6 mos prior to deciding to go to Germany and I think this same horse would have cost me $35-40 here and a lot of traveling to find him. Also, I had three other nice horses in the same price range that I had as a backup had the vetting turned up something intolerable, so it was going to be a fruitful trip no matter what. You do need to be a little brave and make quick decisions in this process. There are definitely advantages to buying at home and it will always be my preference, but I also love to ride and will get impatient if it’s taking too long.
[QUOTE=Kyzteke;7462092]
Good points ^^^^.
But I think most people when they talk about “buying overseas” they are talking Germany or Holland. At least when buying WBs.
So that was what I was comparing.
Regarding the whole frozen semen thing; I think breeders allowed this whole “by the dose” idea take hold and we accepted it, rather than insisting on a LFG and just using frozen because (obviously) chilled just doesn’t work for this type of distance.
Of course it’s too late to get that structure to change now…and why should the European stallion owners change it? If they have a popular stallion US breeders are going to spend thousands & thousands in (often) vain attempts to get those genetics and (ultimately) the product will not be competing (either in terms of sales or actual u/s competition) against it’s European siblings. I mean, I’d LOVE to know how much $$ the owners of stallions like Hohenstein & Rubinstein made from the sale of their frozen…but that’s another thread entirely.
A local GP rider sent me this link:http://www.graemont.com/dollar.php
While there certainly is alot of good info on this site, it was discouraging to me to see yet another American dressage rider not only encouraging but also assisting American buyers to shop overseas. And making $$ doing it.
Meanwhile, how do we overcome the two biggest obstacles facing the NA WB breeder? That would be (IMHO): 1) lack of competent YH riders/trainers and 2) the vast geographical distance
I agree it would be wonderful to have THREE “hubs” of NA WB activity; East Coast, West Coast and Somewhere in the Middle :lol:. Each “hub” would have to offer a full calender of shows (in hand & u/s) + auction(s) & maybe even the stallion testing.
Right now we have DAD…what sort of buyer support do you think there would be if there was a big “mixed” auction held at the same time and in the same (approximate) location?
Not that it would help me personally much, since I’m on the other side of the country, but we probably have our biggest % of WB breeders on the East Coast.
Do you think it would be supported by both buyers and sellers?[/QUOTE]
Maybe I look through things with rose colored glasses but I do think we have some very good young riders here in the US (at least we do where I live in NC). The problem is an organized training ground to formally educate these riders, finding them and their lack of name recognition or being in a barn/ training facility with name recognition to then help sell the horse(s) in training. In Europe there are barns/ riders known to always have good young horses in training for reasonable fees. These places can be “one stop shopping” for those looking for a young horse under saddle. They are also good places for breeders to send their horses for getting started. We really lack that aspect (at least where I live) IMO.
I do think it could happen, the development of a central (or few central) horse centric shopping/ training/ show areas in the US. It will take someone with a lot of money, a lot of connections and a lot of grunt work to get it started. And most likely will take a decade or more to get established.
Re: the auctions at Glenwood many years ago. I used to attend them every year. The horses were a mix of local sellers and imports that were bought through German auctions. The did a great job creating an atmosphere that was celebratory and had a lovely facility. It was a FRACTION of the size of an auction in Germany. They are now trying to start a new auction series at a barn in Vacaville run by Christiana Noelting. Have not attended since I no longer live in CA. Having said that it will always be so much smaller as they do not have a Verband or a millionaire PSI behind them. Still think they are good to pursue though if they can make a bit of money all around and have happy buyers.
Re land use: we have the same problem here regarding land use for fuel/ production feeds such as corn or soy. I am surrounded by these crops and as the land becomes too valuable it will become either too expensive for hobby farmers to buy the land or be pressured to sell to commercial farmers. I suspect our “problems” will become one in the same over the next decade or so…land use issues, increased hobby breeders versus family breeders, increased cost of raising stock versus amount you can sell them for, etc.
It’s called horse-trading and it’s done all the time…and not just buying/selling horses overseas. I did the same thing myself some years ago. Found a youngster who the owner needed to sell FAST. Had a buyer looking for just such a horse, but I didn’t have it. I knew Buyer was willing to spend at least 2x what the seller wanted for the horse. So I bought it for $X from Seller and sold it 2 days after for $2X.
This is unethical, immoral, & indecent regardless of how it is labeled.
This is really just ripping people off. I would never do business with a breeder or other professional who does this. Bragging about it, well, that is just sad.
Now, back to your regularly scheduled programming…
I agree that it is unethical to sell your client a $10k horse for $20k and pocket the difference. And illegal. It’s an atrocity of our industry and unreal to me that it is standard practice. BUT if I buy a horse myself for $10k and resell it, however long or soon thereafter, for $20k, that’s a good flip. I am risking my hard earned $10k in the interim. The horse can break a leg, or drop dead, or turn out to be unsuitable.
I try to look here but often it’s less for me to find the quality I want overseas, even with import. I can also see 200 young horses and ride 40-50 on a 7-10 day trip. No way to replicate that shopping here unfortunately.
Last fall I went down to my friends’ training and breeding farm outside of Buenos Aires to look for an A/O jumper prospect and rode for five days straight, 6-7 horses a day. I looked at their sales horses and we also went over to another facility to try several more from different sellers. Most of the coming five year olds had show experience in the young jumpers series down there, and the coming four year olds were used to being taken off the farm and schooled in some of the country clubs in the city, which are basically these huge showing and training facilities.
Having looked here in the States, I came to the unhappy conclusion that I’d be better off doing this sort of trip and importing than traveling all over the country looking at a couple of horses here, a handful there. The prices were also much better for the high quality of these horses- one of the coming four year olds I had on my short list was later bought by a member of the Chilean show-jumping team.
As well, because I bought through my friends I felt completely confident, versus buying from a stranger- obviously this was unique to my situation, but trust definitely played a role in my decision. I stayed with them and got to see the training process and how the horses are maintained and handled, etc. This was exactly what I needed and when I left I had videos of me flatting and jumping my top three prospects on different days and in different situations, results from a preliminary vetting (the vet was out on the last day I was there so he did flexions and scoped them for me), and a lot of impressions to discuss with my trainer. I think I would have been happy with whichever one I picked, and it was nice to have backups in case my top choice had a problematic vetting.
I was able to have my guy imported to Miami for $8k (which was a bargain), and shipped up the coast for another $1.3k. His total cost, including gelding, the PPE, and import and shipping was considerably less than similarly well-bred (he has excellent jumping lines), young horses with show experience here in the States. I would have been very, very happy to buy here but I got frustrated with the options out there, and saw myself spending months shlepping around to no effect. Doing a targeted, short trip where I could try horses in various situations, have my friends set up different jumping tests, etc. was an easier and quicker path to the horse I wanted.
