Addressing a sensitive issue with clients

[Prettypony88]

I am a young professional and have been in business a few years. I am struggling to find a way to delicately address situations where clients are matched with a mount of inappropriate size for their physique. Sometimes it is a client desiring to ride a schoolhorse, other times a client looking to purchase a horse, and other times it is a client who already owns their own. A lot of time the riders are capable and knowledgable but are simply on a mount too small for their height and weight. The straightforward truth would be that they would be a great deal more successful and presentable on a larger or differently built horse but I feel like that could be hurtful and discouraging.

I am a believer that there is a horse out there for every rider and want to encourage clients of all shapes and sizes but am not sure how to address the issue without destroying anyone’s body image (especially since many students are teenage girls). On the other hand, as a trainer, I don’t want to promote an inappropriately matched horse and rider, especially if the horse is suffering in his work.

Most recently, I’ve had a student back who had taken a hiatus for several years and in the process gained over 100 lbs. She is no longer able to ride the same school horses and is wondering why. I’m not sure how to by truthful and kind at the same time.

Anyone out there ever encountered a trainer who dealt with these situations tactfully and compassionately? Ideas?

[SendenHorse]

It’s not your place to worry about their image. I would say as kindly as possible what you said here. Don’t project onto them what you think they might feel.

[I]“The straightforward truth would be that they would be a great deal more successful and presentable on a larger or differently built horse”

[/I]
People don’t have to be overweight to have body issues, you know. I think most of us do to some degree.

[Pennywell_Bay]

[QUOTE=Prettypony88;8695426]
I am a young professional and have been in business a few years. I am struggling to find a way to delicately address situations where clients are matched with a mount of inappropriate size for their physique. Sometimes it is a client desiring to ride a schoolhorse, other times a client looking to purchase a horse, and other times it is a client who already owns their own. A lot of time the riders are capable and knowledgable but are simply on a mount too small for their height and weight. The straightforward truth would be that they would be a great deal more successful and presentable on a larger or differently built horse but I feel like that could be hurtful and discouraging.

I am a believer that there is a horse out there for every rider and want to encourage clients of all shapes and sizes but am not sure how to address the issue without destroying anyone’s body image (especially since many students are teenage girls). On the other hand, as a trainer, I don’t want to promote an inappropriately matched horse and rider, especially if the horse is suffering in his work.

Most recently, I’ve had a student back who had taken a hiatus for several years and in the process gained over 100 lbs. She is no longer able to ride the same school horses and is wondering why. I’m not sure how to by truthful and kind at the same time.

Anyone out there ever encountered a trainer who dealt with these situations tactfully and compassionately? Ideas?[/QUOTE]

In the past, we had horses and we put a weight limit on. I had to tell a client in the past that the horse she was riding could no longer handle her weight. In my case, that is exactly what I said. Unfortunately I did not have any horse that was appropriate in size and strength at the time. If it were a long term client or someone who I enjoyed teaching I would perhaps offer to find a suitable mount.

That said- how many overly heavy people do you have? I have had maybe 2 instances in 38 years. Typically it is short people thinking they NEED an 18 hand giant. There are school horses that are clearly not a good match physically for reasons other than just weight (height, leg, upper body craziness) and I just say that. Period.

[Cascades]

I don’t know why you can’t just be straightforward and honest about it. Surely they realize that they’ve gained weight. I don’t think anyone floats blissfully through life without knowing their approximate size/weight.

Just tell her that the school horses are not suitable for her size. It isn’t a value judgement, just a statement of fact.

[kinscem]

Yes, I have encountered trainers who dealt with these issues: they have given up on giving leg up and they commented loudly on rider’s weight. Also they pulled an overweight rider off a horse.
It is not fair to be overweight rider for a horse who is not build for a huge rider.

[Scribbler]

Hmmm. what would you say to someone who was taller than average, but weight/height proportionate? Or what would you say to a willowy teen girl who had grown three inches since last year, but still wanted to get back on the 12 hand pony she loves? In other words, what would you say if the issue was just height and proportion, which isn’t so freighted with negativity, rather than weight?

If it is your school horse, you can just say “I think Star is a better fit for where you’re at right now, rather than Dobbin.” Discussion closed. Actually, when I took lessons, I don’t recall having any say in what horse I rode!

If the client is buying a horse under your direction, you can discuss parameters with them beforehand. You would be talking about discipline, mind, performance goals; you can certainly add in that they should be looking at horses above a certain height, and horses of a certain build.

You can talk about other issues of proportion too, and you can point to horses at your barn as examples. A smaller horse with a bigger barrel can “take up more leg,” while a similar height horse with flat sides will have the rider’s leg hanging too low, and looking like they are on a pony. Also, a very short neck can make the rider look unbalanced.

If you are teaching dressage, then the idea of what makes a harmonious picture in the arena is totally relevant to discussions of horse purchase. Or indeed to any competitive discipline.

If the students come in with inappropriate horses, you are a bit more stuck. But you can have a discussion eventually about how the horse is limiting their progress. However, asking a student to buy a new horse and trade up, unless they are serious about competing, is a bit difficult. You could also give them a trial ride on a bigger horse, and praise how they look, say “this is the kind of horse/ length of stride/ size of barrel/ you need to really improve.” You can point out a heavier rider on a well-matched horse and just say casually from time to time how good Susie looks on Mr. Halfdraft, they really complement each other.

I don’t know if you are in a breed specific barn, though. I can see that if you are in an Arab barn, for instance, where everyone wants the floatiest, lightest, most delicate, horse, that would be hard for the heavier riders. Also, if you are in Quarter Horse country, a lot of working horses are on the smaller side, but do OK by their heavier riders.

But IME, adult ammies in dressage tend to err the other way: they all want ginormous 17 hand warmbloods that have huge gaits and are way too strong for them!

You could also include advice on fitness for riding in your lesson chats. Core strength, pilates, aerobic fitness, etc. don’t mention losing weight per se, but do talk about overall body strength and how the rider’s stability is so important.

[MissAriel]

I saw a trainer with a middle-aged, slightly overweight re-rider client who had just bought a young OTTB. The mare was in training to become a riding horse after a brief racing career and a nice let-down period. Trainer tactfully told client that mare would be ridden by the trainer only until she had built enough strength to safely and calmly manage client’s uneven balance when riding. In the meantime, client was encouraged to take lessons to improve his riding. To his credit, along with the recommended lessons, the client took it upon himself to lose some weight to make things easier for his beloved mare.

I think if you address it from the standpoint of the horse’s well-being it is easier to accept. For your recent student, maybe you can suggest that the horses are now older and needing a less demanding lesson schedule.

[Lucassb]

The really tricky situation is the rider who comes to you with a horse that is unsuitable (for whatever reason) because they have already made the investment, are probably attached, etc. And let’s face it, there is a perception out there (sometimes valid, sometimes not) that a trainer has a vested interest in getting a new client to sell their current horse and buy something else for commission $$$.

In that case, I think you sit down with them to discuss the rider’s goals, agree on a program, and come to an agreement about what is reasonable; that can include your professional, unemotional advice about what sort of workload is appropriate for the horse/rider.

For lesson horses, it is perfectly fair and appropriate to simply say that you don’t have horses suitable for a particular rider (if that is the case.) For purchase situations, it is likewise perfectly appropriate to include recommendations about the proper type of animal for your rider/client to invest in.

Will some clients/potential clients take offense to this? Perhaps. Quite likely those are not clients who are going to advance your business, anyway, though.

For clarity and lest I be misunderstood, I am NOT suggesting that your program only welcome young/thin/fit clients on big fancy WBs. Hopefully that is clear. However, riding is an athletic activity and particularly when it comes to those who wish to compete, the reality is that there ARE appropriate pairings and those which are not appropriate. As a professional, I doubt you want to be connected to any clients who could be characterized as, “an inappropriately matched horse and rider, especially if the horse is suffering in his work.”

[BigMama1]

As a plus-sized rider myself, I second what most of the posters above have said about being straightforward regarding a weight / height limit for certain horses.

However I would avoid referencing that they will ride better, score better and most of all look better on a larger horse unless they are actively shopping for a new mount. Making it about the horse’s safety and welfare is fine - making it about looks is not a good approach IMO, especially for non-competitive students.

Also make sure you have realistic guidelines for what constitutes “too heavy for the horse” and ask yourself whether a tall, slim 190lb man would be permitted to ride the same horse which is too small for the short, fat 190lb woman.

[Countrywood]

Just come out and say it. No need to be cruel, just state it as a fact, that your school horses have a weight limit of X lbs as it could be damaging to their joints etc. Perhaps you are afraid of losing one of them as a client, there is a chance it may happen just have to take that chance.

[MissAriel]

I think part of the difficulty is it really isn’t just about the weight limit - you have to factor in the skill of the rider to determine what will be ok for the horse. A tall, slim 190lb person who isn’t balanced will be much harder on a horse than a short, heavy 190lb person who rides well.

[betsyk]

I don’t have an answer and it’s a question I struggle with, too. I do think that with kids and teens, the concept that they’ve outgrown a horse physically isn’t as foreign, because throughout childhood kids are always outgrowing something. Outgrowing doesn’t need to specify height or weight.

I"m struggling with this now as the teenager who’s leasing my horse is approaching the horse’s size limit. I struggle with whether I should give her the heads-up, “Dobbin’s weight limit is about X, and I have no idea if you’re approaching that but I feel like we ought to get that on the table now, just to be clear.” I don’t know if I have the guts to actually end the lease (pretty drastic) if she outgrows the horse in terms of weight. I think I would probably negotiate something like, “if I know you’re making an honest effort to work on your fitness then I don’t think we need to make any other changes.” Probably need a consequence - “otherwise we’ll need to limit your rides to a couple days a week.” I don’t know - any other ideas?

[fordtraktor]

Do you have a horse appropriate for her? I would just say that Tin Tin is getting older and can only carry smaller students right now. Fortunately you have McGyver, who is perfect for her and who you are confident she can learn a lot from.

I never, ever let my students pick their lesson horse. It is a really bad habit. I did consider fear issues, though – if a student was afraid of a particular horse I would always take that into account, including using a different horse or doing the lesson on the longe or whatever.

I find no need to ask for numbers of what the students weigh. either I can tell the horse is struggling or it isn’t. If so don’t put her on that one again. Or if I think it will struggle, I don’t use that one. Asking for numbers is 1. irrelevant, really, because of the point MissAriel makes and 2. mean.

I don’t tell people they need to get fitter. Fat people know they need to get fitter. When I talk about it, I do it generically. and supportively. and brag when I see improvement. stay positive. Do a fitness thing together maybe like a Whole30 month or 10,000 steps on your fitbits challenge or whatever. be a team, not a drill sergeant.

[Silverbridge]

It’s so tricky because as people have pointed out, more than just rider weight in proportion to horse weight is involved in determining what constitutes too much.

And the visual picture does play a big part in it, particularly in dressage where very large horses are the norm. So you have to consider what’s too much visually and what is too much in real numbers, cause and effect, and then you have to be very tactful.

At 5’11 and hovering between 175-180 I am probably larger than most of the women in my riding group. But I’m not sure, because I never ask women what they weigh. :eek: :lol:

I probably don’t look too big for my 15.3 horse to most people, but I am sure there are some people in dressage who think we’re mismatched in size. ETA: I get lots of comments on my test sheets that say “well matched pair” and “good looking pair”, for whatever that’s worth.

There are a lot of factors to consider when determining a fixed limit. But your school horses are yours to manage and it’s your right to do so if you feel it’s required.

In the case of helping people shop, or of working with people whose purchased and beloved horse is a mismatch in your eyes, then you have to be even more tactful. It’s tricky!

[fordtraktor]

Silverbridge, I am 5’10, 150 with a petite 15.2 TB. I am definitely not too much for him! You are fine. The trend toward giant horses and tiny people is totally absurd. the reason I think OP is not on that bandwagon is that the student gained 100lbs which means unless she was a waif could be a burden on a smallish lesson horse.

[Crash_Helmet]

No advice to add but just wanted to say that you sound like a compassionate and thoughtful teacher, PP88!

[Prettypony88]

Thank you guys for all the input.
I always try to encourage my students of all sizes to pursue other fitness as well. We talk about developing core and stamina rather than specifically weight loss and a lot of times some of the more serious riders will take the advice.

I have no trouble telling a rider they are overhorsed or not the right height for a horse or even telling a teenager they need to get off the small pony they had from ten years ago but for some reason weight feels so much more personal. I am tall and thin and I don’t want to come across as though I am setting aside good riders with different bodies or that I’m playing in to an elitist attitude that would discourage certain riders from doing dressage. I am total agreement that a smaller poorly balanced rider can do way more damage than a larger rider who moves well with the horse. I try not to hold any “ideal” body type because I have seen riders of all shapes and sizes ride well and not so well. Most of the time I can find another reason the horse is not the right match and leave it at that. At the moment though I have two particular clients who are a little more tricky.

The first is a 19 year old girl. Rode with me before a few years ago. She was petite and pretty short and had begun to lesson on my large pony who happens to be an easy second level ride which is what she needed. The fit well together, no problems. Now a year and a half later she has put on a significant amount of weight and the same pony can no longer handle the rider for the same things they were doing before. It was apparent after the first lesson that the pony struggled. As most of my clients own their own, I have limited school horses and don’t have another uncomplicated mount at that level. I don’t let students chose their schoolhorse but now she’s starting to ask “can I ride soandso again next lesson I’d really like to work on x,y, and z and this other school horse can’t do that”. Since other riders are learning on the same mount it’s very hard to give another excuse. I guess part of my dilemma is that this is a young girl who is down on herself in other areas and I don’t want to be the one to tell her she’s become to much for a horse she enjoyed learning on. On the other hand, maybe better she hear it from me than elsewhere?

The second scenario is an older lady who has come for training with a horse she’s owned for about 4 years. Didn’t feel she was progressing with former trainer so moved on to my farm. Told me on the phone before coming she loves the horse, doesn’t want to ride any others, won’t sell, etc. etc. As it turns out the horse is a smallish (15 hh) Arabian cross, slightly built, and she is probably around 250 lbs. The horse is impeccably trained and she is a pretty balanced and knowledgable rider but the horse very obviously struggles. I’ve tried to hint gently to the effect that she might not have the same struggles on a different horse but she just doesn’t want to hear anything about giving up her dearly beloved mount. I’m feeling like the right thing to do in this case is just to sit her down and come out with it but again not easy!
Again, thanks for the suggestions!

[Lord_Helpus]

I am surprised that the riders seem to be unaware of their suitability for a size of horse.

Perhaps they should be video’d and then you and the client can review the video. At that point you can politely point out the obvious. “The horse fell in on that 20m circle because your weight was on your inside stirrup and the horse could not counteract it, even though you were using your outside rein”.

If you want to really make your point, only video the rider in question. If you want to be more PC, then have a “video week” and video all your customers.

But being an older person I get a little tired of spending so much time and energy on being PC. I would probably just come out and say “you have gotten too heavy to ride this horse. We need to find a bigger horse who can carry you.”

Boom. Said. Done. Whether the weight issue is due to overeating (for whatever reason) or a metabolic imbalance over which the client has no control, the result is the same and I think you and the client will both be better served if the issue is out in the open.

[MsM]

For the first rider, I think I would say that the pony is older and simply not up to carrying her. So pretty honest, but with the face-saving “older pony” wrinkle.

For the second rider: Is she damaging to the horse? If so, I would tell her that I cant help her and why. She will probably move to another trainer (rinse, repeat) If she is not harming the horse but simply limiting, then you can choose to work with her or not. She told you up front she is committed to the horse - unsuitable or not. I agree the video idea might work here.

[buck22]

I understand, respect and would share your reservations.

I recently joined a gym. Like most, I was gung ho for several weeks, then work sidelined me for a few days, then a trip, then more work, then another trip. Suddenly 2 months went by without a visit.

The trainer stayed on me, pressing me to come in for my monthly recap and evaluation. I was embarrassed I had nothing to evaluate as I hadn’t been there. He pressed anyhow and I reluctantly agreed.

The trainers at the gym employ a very positive way of communicating and overcoming failures with their clients. Instead of pointing out the negatives with my absence, focus was put on the positives of my return. I thought I was going to feel miserable and ashamed, but I felt renewed and excited instead.

My advice would be to find any possible positive way of skewing what you need to communicate.

For the 19 yr old girl, perhaps find a way to point out the positives about riding the more suitably sized mount you have in mind for her? Point out that she’s beginning to progress and its time for a challenge? A larger horse with more carrying power will enable to her to feel gaits better? Search for anything positive. If it comes to it however, mention that the pony is getting older and in order to ensure his comfort and working years ahead of him you’re beginning to restrict rider size.

For the older lady however, I would be more direct. As I’m getting older myself, I’m discovering I’ve got a thicker skin and less need for sugar coating. That said, her desire to enjoy the horse she loves needs to be respected.

In that instance, I would pinpoint specific areas the arab is struggling and see if I had a horse in my string that would be able to manage better. I would discuss the limitations with the woman and immediately put my money where my mouth was by having another horse on standby for her to get on and feel the difference. I think in an instance like this, the lady needs to be educated on the limitations of size.

Finally, for both riders, if weight and fitness is a serious issue, I would help them by giving them exercises as homework to help increase their ability - with the hopes that they will feel the difference fitness makes in their riding and want to continue on their own.

Just my 2¢