I had two sisters who started riding here. One proceeded to gain weight to the point of obesity. She was young, maybe 13. It became a safety factor and was unfair to my lesson horse.
I would cut off my right arm before I would tell a teen age girl she was too heavy to ride, so I get your predicament OP.
It is a difficult situation.
For me, that child choose to quit, which was a huge relief.
I learned to ask what me students weight and their build to be sure I had an appropriate mount.
It’s a tricky situation.
I agree with buck22’s last sentence.
There is not only the option of riding a different horse here, there is also the option of losing the weight and riding the horse of your dreams again.
Trust me, I understand how easy it is to put on weight, I am not thin either. But just like we expect students to have enough self-discipline of the mind to not be unfair to their horse, the same thing applies to self-discipline over their body.
I also agree that this can be communicated in a positive way. Don’t sit them down and say “I’m so sorry, you’re too fat. Ride a different horse.” Instead, sit them down and say “everyone has to work for the things they want, and I would like you to work on your weight in order to ride this horse again”.
Help them make an exercise and nutrition plan (or point them to someone who can help with that, if you can’t).
We all know that riding is not so much just a sport, but a lifestyle, and even though they might not like it, this is part of that lifestyle…
I have a feeling that you might end up losing the older lady as a client, especially since you say you are pretty young yourself. But the 19 yr old may actually appreciate the help…
I remember when I was a young teenager, maybe around 12, and just started growing breasts. I was a vaulter at the time and one day one of my coaches took me aside and told me I needed to wear a bra. Of course se said it in a nice way, but I was a kid and self-conscious, and it felt like I was going to die of shame right there. But you know, I went out with my mom, bought a bra, went back to practice and the world didn’t end. 
One of our pony club instructors used to say that the kid and the pony should look alike. Tall and thin kids usually did best with tall and thin ponies. Short legged kids got shorter ponies. Occasionally, there were exceptions. My tall, thin, daughter does not like tall, thin horses.
I am old and heavy. My 2 mounts are a lovely Irish Draught and an equally nice 15.3h Connemara cross. I was reluctant to try the Connemara cross when our trainer suggested him a few months ago. He seemed too slight of a build. She felt he was a good match, and was correct. We just trail ride, so the extra weight does not bother him. He seems very happy as my trail horse. He eagerly gets in my trailer, and wants to trot and canter on the trails. A horse and rider can be poorly matched for jumping and competing, but well matched for casual trail riding.
I agree that you should be very direct with the older rider. I’m 37 years old, 5’5 and 137 pounds, so not enormous, but I am trying to lose about 10 pounds. I’ve been running in addition to riding and watching what I eat. My trainer told me to lay off the carbs in my last lesson and I laughed and agreed. She said it because I’m getting tired after just a little bit of work. It didn’t hurt my feelings. It probably would have when I was 19 though.
[QUOTE=mayhew;8696515]
I agree that you should be very direct with the older rider. I’m 37 years old, 5’5 and 137 pounds, so not enormous, but I am trying to lose about 10 pounds. I’ve been running in addition to riding and watching what I eat. My trainer told me to lay off the carbs in my last lesson and I laughed and agreed. She said it because I’m getting tired after just a little bit of work. It didn’t hurt my feelings. It probably would have when I was 19 though.[/QUOTE]
I am sorry, but I find your trainer’s comments inappropriate. Your stats are not the kind of stats on which your trainer should be commenting. 5’5 and 137 is not fat. This is why equestrians have eating disorders. You are probably tired because you are dieting. You probably would do better to eat some carbs before your lesson so you’d have some energy to do the work.
Anyway, OP, on your situation, the first one I think you are fine to just assign her a different horse and say that the pony is getting older and needs to back down a bit, so you are assigning him to smaller riders only these days if she asks.
The older one is harder but I would have a frank conversation and not necessarily tell her she is too fat for the horse, but tell her exactly what you are seeing. “I have been watching you ride Dobbin. he is a very good fellow and I know you love him to pieces. However I have observed that he is doing X, Y and Z when you ride him. I believe he is not 100% comfortable right now under his current working conditions. I think we should perhaps reduce his work schedule to walk and trot only, or do some in hand work to get his and your fitness to a level where you are both going to thrive working together as a team. In the meantime, why don’t we also schedule a few rides on DraftX so you can continue developing your canter work.”
I don’t like to tell people to sell horses they love unless the horse is actually too much horse for them, hopefully she will come to the conclusion she needs a bigger horse to fully develop but if she wants to continue to work with Beloved Tiny, that’s OK with me as long as both are happy.
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[QUOTE=fordtraktor;8696549]
5’5 and 137 is not fat. This is why equestrians have eating disorders. You are probably tired because you are dieting. You probably would do better to eat some carbs before your lesson so you’d have some energy to do the work. [/QUOTE]
so you know for a fact OP is not fat? you know for sure that she should eat carbs and this would produce more energy?
(EDITED)
You know, the other thing I would mention is that fat people know they are fat. It’s not going to be some huge revelation to tell them they are overweight; put in context of the appropriateness of the work they are asking their horse to do, I think it is perfectly fair. Of course you would want to be tactful and kind, but as a professional there is that responsibility toward the horses’ welfare to consider in addition to the rider’s feelings.
I say this as someone who has battled weight issues for my entire life, by the way: I am no one’s idea of tall and thin! Wanting to stay fit to ride (and yes, not look like a dumpling on a horse) has been good motivation for me to, as GM puts it, “push away from the dinner table.” Riding is a sport and an athletic activity as well as a hobby, and it doesn’t offend me in the slightest to recognize that I do better at it when I manage my weight more effectively.
I agree with those who say it’s probably an easier conversation to have with the teenager and older pony situation. You can certainly skew that POV toward stewardship of the pony in his golden years. For the adult with the cherished smaller horse, why not take a similar perspective? You can say that the horse is finding the work difficult and provide examples. You can ask the woman if she might consider doing “fitness work” to help make the job easier for her beloved horse, since you know she loves him and was upfront about her intent to keep him rather than buy something else. Trust me, everyone with a weight issue knows that when someone suggests improving “fitness” they mean LOSE WEIGHT. If things are at the point where the horse is truly struggling, I really don’t think it’s out of bounds to - gently but directly - address the problem.
Don’t use the word fat, use the word heavy.
The people trying to lose 10 lbs that has nothing to do with truly obese people or those whose weight would compromise a horse.
An extra 10 lbs is “vanity weight”, (I struggle with vanity weight), but it is way off topic about a trainer trying to handle clients with serious weight issues.
Be matter of fact, encourage them, say you love their enthusiasm and you think they have ability and you’d love to work with them but due to horse/rider weight carrying capacity they need to be about 10% lighter (or whatever your estimate is), and for the person buying a horse you would recommend buying one with a large build around 16 h or whatever is most appropriate.
This is a very difficult situation.
Just look around at a group of people- school kids or adults or families, and you will see that MOST of them are overweight and out of shape. Don’t flame me for the truth here…
So, many folks when they show up to “live their dream” of riding a horse, are completely out of touch with what it takes. Often, they are delusional about their physical fitness to boot, and think that somehow they have great core strength or whatever. I hate to say this, but I find that the more overweight the person the more in denial they seem to be.
This appears to be coupled with a strong streak towards staying exactly the way they are, and making no changes. So, if riding is too taxing, they are ground queens- making their horses exercise like mad on the lunge, or grooming them for hours, but doing nothing which makes them burn an extra calorie.
It’s sad and at the same time, preposterous, because they expect you, the coach and leader, to also validate their self image and assist them in continuing in their hypocrisy.
Often, they are also hyper-sensitive to anything which could conceivably be construed as criticism as well.
So, as a trainer, I completely agree with Dogismypilot. You’re not going to be able to help the older woman, who has set herself on a path of complete denial, but you probably can still reach the 19 year old, and help her remount onto a more suitable horse, and hopefully, continue to get some exercise.
Win some lose some, that’s how it goes. Today, in this PC environment, with everyone being “special” and touchy as hell to anything that can possibly be construed to pop their bubbles, that’s just how it rolls.
As a practical matter, I do take clients who have significant physical obstacles to overcome, as long as they are willing to work within boundaries which will keep my school horses sound and happy. Most of them, once they are on a horse and trying to ride, have significant “come to Jesus” moments, where they start to realize that they are NOT fit and able to do what is necessary, and start to discuss making some changes. I do, once we have established a relationship, and some trust, gently discuss “lifestyle” changes that might assist them in their goals.
But, and this is totally depressing, I have NEVER had one of the really obese stick with it and lose a significant amount of weight. Ever. The motivation and effort in general lasts about 60 days, then the person finds another excuse for continuing their old ways.
People who are just heavy, and carrying less than 50 extra pounds, that’s much less of an issue. First of all, people can ride just fine with a little extra weight, and riding actually helps distribute it better. Also, they seem to be far less invested in their habits, and are often motivated to get more fit, which often includes losing some pounds, and since there are less to lose, they get immediate positive feedback, and are encouraged to continue.
Our society is so geared towards weight gain that I now actually say something when I see any of my students put on 5 pounds- it’s far far easier to lose 5 than 50, and it appears almost impossible for most people to lose 150+. I feel like a controlling jerk whenever I do, but I find that wake up call works. Best to nip it in the bud.
This is a very timely discussion, and thought provoking as well.
Well, I think first you’d need to stop worrying about their body image. Do you know their exact weight? Define how you are coming to the conclusion the horses could do better with a lighter rider, or that the heavier riders could do better with a bigger horse? Is there a loss of performance? Lameness? Can the horse not trot? Are there SI issues in the horse?
How are you an expert on what weight a horse can carry? Did the horse tell you “hey, I can only do 180lb max, 182 will break my back.”
Obviously, the 200lb person on a 14h arab is something to consider… but if it’s a 200lb person on, say a 15h QH… I’ve seen plenty of plenty horses carry “extra weight” just fine. The 20% of their body weight rule has apparently been disproven, but I’ve always taken the weight on a case-by-case basis – some horses can shoulder extra weight just fine despite their height; others need certain limitations due to lamenesses or SI issues… example, my 17.1H TB has a hard time with riders over 220lb but his 15.2h QH can take 280+ no problem.
That being said, not every rider is going to feel better or more comfortable on a bigger horse. And not every bigger rider is a “heavier” rider. Some big riders have very light seats; and conversely, some lighter riders can be very heavy in the saddle for the horse.
I haven’t had an issue with bigger riders on too small mounts. I’ve had hundreds of issues with too-small riders on too-big mounts.
Good advice already given on things to say to both parties…I will just add that with your older client, I would be upfront (like others have said), but be prepared that she may not like what you say and move her business elsewhere, as she has done in the past. Her previous trainers may have been the same way and let her know the limitations she is imposing on the horse due to her weight, and she didn’t want to hear it, so she moved to a new trainer that may be different. I get that feeling from your post, as she was very upfront about not wanting to get rid of her horse or change her horse, etc. etc. She is most likely in denial about her weight and the horse’s limitations, and as a professional for the horses, it is your responsibility to stand up for the horse, even if the horse’s owner doesn’t like what you have to say.
I think regardless of how you spin it, when you confront this issue, some types of clients (usually in denial or with an inflated sense of self), don’t want to hear anything of the sort and will lash back out-either in reasoning/giving excuses back/questioning your advice/moving to a new trainer…
So, all of that to say, you have to draw a line where your horse welfare/professionalism is, and know you will be doing right by the horse, even if it means you lose a client that doesn’t want to hear she isn’t suitable for the horse.
Of course, we all hope she is open to advice, and being tactful/creative in your approach (videoing is a great idea), is helpful and may break barriers in a way that speaks to her, but in some cases, it isn’t, and losing a client is a very possible thing to happen; however, ask yourself if that is a client you want on your roster if she doesn’t follow your professional advice re: suitability.
As far as the school horses, my barn’s lesson program has a sign posted in the school tack room and one in the barn aisle with the horses’ weight limits. Also a few of the horses get an extra half pad for certain rider weights, which is noted as well.
This seems like an objective, non-judgemental way of presenting parameters and mostly avoiding having to have an uncomfortable conversation. If a student who is too heavy for a particular horse requests to ride it anyway, then it’s necessary to explain the reasoning and kindly decline the request.
Never mind.
This thread is not about your body image issues.
[QUOTE=Crash Helmet;8696850]
This thread is not about your body image issues.[/QUOTE]
really? wow. did you need to go there? I was adding onto what Mayhew said.
Forget this, I’ll delete my comments and move on. Wow.
Do not ever, ever, ever comment on your students weight. Ever.
I don’t care - young, old, underweight, overweight. Do not comment. It is not your place.
People are self conscious enough already. I promise that they already know, they already feel bad about it, and they need an outlet like riding to inspire them to make a change. Harping on things like weight is not a teachers place - the gym/trainer example above was a good one.
Instead, go about it from a different angle. Give the students homework to work on core strength. Tell student she needs to ride bigger pony x because he can help he master x,y,z.
I feel strongly about this. I don’t think you need to delude anyone. But, think of how passionate we all were about horses at some point. Don’t ruin it because we’re fickle creatures who get down on ourselves about stupid things.
The horses welfare should be paramount. But change the perception/conversation into a positive instead of a negative.
I have two IRL examples for you.
Trainer A I rode with a couple of years ago. I was experiencing some medical stuff and went from 150 to 165 at 5’8’’. My clothes were tighter than I liked. I felt gross all of the time. But riding was my escape and I remained riding well. In our equitation practice, trainer continually yelled at me to “suck in my gut” and reminded me that “fat girls don’t win the eq”.
Trainer B I’ve ridden with on and off for several years. The medical stuff had gotten me up to 180 but I’m back down to 165. Rode the other night with Trainer B and despite being out of shape, heavier than I should be, and really rusty over fences - she did not ONCE mention anything about it. Didn’t over face me, offered rest/walk breaks, and towards the end of our lesson picked up an EquiCube and said “You should really get one of these for riding at home. I think it would do wonders for your core strength.”
Which trainer do you think inspired me to want to better myself?
I’m not an idiot. I’m heavier than I want to be and heavier than I should be. But, my god. How NICE was it to have Trainer B point out the issue so delicately?
Not only did I go home and order an EquiCube - I also went to the store and got some new running shoes. I’ve made a pact with myself to get back in shape more quickly now that my medical stuff is resolving, because I want to ride and be effective and be great at what I do.
Trainer A just made me want to crawl into a hole and cry.
Be kinder than necessary.
I would totally have been open to someone pointing out to me, “hey, I know you love Geezerpony but he’s starting to drop off of weighting that arthritic ankle on the turns when you ride, he’s doing x and y that shows he’s a little back sore, he’d be more comfortable and better able to go riding with you if he was carrying fewer pounds. How can we do that for him?”
Of course, I noticed that myself and made the changes myself. But if this older lady wants to keep her horse happy and just doesn’t recognize the signs of a horse needing to carry fewer pounds, then she might appreciate your showing her how to spot the signs. Appealing to Arab’s best interests out of love for Arab may be the way to go in this case.
I do think for many riders who are “fluffy” or even overweight and are ammies (meaning they do not have Olympic or UL aspirations) that you should hold your tongue wrt rider weight.
The barn, for many people, is a sanctuary.
For some, it’s a sanctuary away from their body image.
I would hate to see that destroyed.
[QUOTE=beowulf;8696881]
I do think for many riders who are “fluffy” or even overweight and are ammies (meaning they do not have Olympic or UL aspirations) that you should hold your tongue wrt rider weight.
The barn, for many people, is a sanctuary.
For some, it’s a sanctuary away from their body image.
I would hate to see that destroyed.[/QUOTE]
Totally understand about the sanctuary aspect, but what about the horse in the equation? A horse that is “struggling” under the weight of its rider seems like a big problem to me.
yes, agree. I wouldn’t think the horse should suffer because the trainer is afraid to speak up.
