Adjusting to a saddle with a wider twist

[equinelibrium]

In my search to find a saddle for my wide, short-backed horse, I found a fitter/saddle maker overseas that specializes in this type of horse. We’ve been emailing back and worth and I’ve shared lots of photo and video with her. After viewing conformation photos and wither tracings, she recommended a specific model of her saddles. I went ahead and ordered it and I’ve been riding in it for about a week now.

I love how it fits my horse - doesn’t go past the last rib, correct tree shape, well-balanced, doesn’t slip forward, etc. It’s been approved by the fitter via photos and video. My mare seems comfortable in it, but I didn’t notice any behaviors under saddle that alerted me to poor saddle fit. The biggest issue with the current jump saddle is that it slips forward terribly and it’s too long for her back. This saddle resolves both of those issues - yay!

However, the twist is wider than what I’m used to, and I’ve been having lower back pain towards the end of my ride, which lingers for a few hours afterwards. I’m probably butchering her point, but this saddler is a proponent of wider twists because they have been shown to distribute weight better, especially for wider horses. (There’s a study out there, but I wasn’t able to find the abstract)

The saddler said that sometimes it can take time to get used to a wider twist, but I’m not sure how long to give it. It’s hard to tell, too, because the saddle is brand new and not broken in. I suspect it will get better once the flaps aren’t as stiff. But it’s an expensive investment and I would hate to spend money on something that makes me physically uncomfortable.

Has anyone else had this experience moving from a saddle with a narrow twist to a wider twist? How long should I give it for the saddle to wear in?

ETA for comparison, my current jump saddle is a Fairfax Classic Jump model. My dressage saddle is a Black Country Eden.

[Scribbler]

I have learned not to ride in saddles that give me pain. It could be the twist or it could be some other aspect of seat configuration.

It’s normal to feel a bit stiff in the legs in a new saddle or horse. That’s muscle soreness from exertion and will resolve as you grow fit to that horse.

Back pain however means you are being damaged. It doesn’t go away and you don’t adapt. It just gets worse.

Most recently I got back pain from a saddle where the seat was too small and I took up too much motion in my lower back because my pelvis couldn’t move.
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[equinelibrium]

Thanks for the insight @Scribbler. That’s what I’m afraid of. I’m really hoping this will be the one, but if my back keeps hurting I’ll have to send it back.

When I sat in my dressage saddle for the first time, I knew immediately that I loved it. I’ve yet to experience that with any of the jump saddles I’ve tried. And I come from a jumper background, so it’s not that the type of saddle/position is new to me - I was actually really surprised how much I loved the dressage saddle right away. The only problem is that Black Country doesn’t make a jump saddle on the Eden tree, so it would have to be a custom order. Even then, there’s so many other variables to consider that it would be really daunting. For instance, the jump saddle I’m trying is a 16.5" and my Fairfax is a 17.5" (my horse simply doesn’t have enough space for that size, even though that’s what I normally ride in), what length flaps if I do get a different sized seat, etc. I have a local fitter that I work with but it’s still an intimidating (not to mention very expensive) process!

[Melissa.Van_Doren]

The twist doesn’t affect the horse, just the rider. Except… If it’s too wide it causes a variety of problems, from not being able to sit gaits well, to lateral stability, to back pain… and all of those things DO affect the horse because they impact on your ability to sit in fluid balance.

It won’t break in because it’s an inflexible area of the saddle.

[4horses]

Yes I’m afraid you will need to return it. I have a wide barreled mare and if I don’t have a narrow twist on the saddle, it kills my hips. I find shorter riders with a narrow pelvis really have a problem with wide horses. My tall skinny friend has no issues with her big wide Friesian. I tried riding her mare but the saddle was all wrong for me. Wrong, wrong, wrong! I could not ride in that saddle. I told her either I’m riding my own horse, or I’m riding bareback because that saddle just did not work for me.

It is important the saddle fits the rider or you will be miserable.

[sheltona01]

The twist can affect the horse. It is generally reflection of the rails. That is why saddles for wide horses do not have narrow twist for riders generally.

I am not sure why you are discounting black country jump saddles. I sell them and my horse went in an eden before being retired at 27. We evented comfortably in the ricochet.

[Alex_and_Bodie_s_Mom]

Yeah, you’re not going to ‘get used to it.’ The twist is too wide, and it’s causing you physical pain. That won’t go away.

I’ve ridden a lot of saddles - I used to be a working student and rode in whatever saddle was on the horse at a given time. The ONLY time I experienced true discomfort was in a Lazer adjustable tree saddle (do they even make those anymore?), because when the tree was wide enough for my horse, the twist was too wide for me. Severely too wide.

The saddle has to fit both you and the horse. This saddle fitter may know how to fit the horse, but the biomechanics of the rider are just as important. If you can’t ride the saddle, you can’t ride the horse correctly.

[equinelibrium]

@Melissa.Van Doren

The twist doesn’t affect the horse, just the rider. Except… If it’s too wide it causes a variety of problems, from not being able to sit gaits well, to lateral stability, to back pain… and all of those things DO affect the horse because they impact on your ability to sit in fluid balance.

It won’t break in because it’s an inflexible area of the saddle.

This was my impression too, but as I’ve learned more about fitting wider horses I learned that this isn’t always the case. As sheltona01 says, the twist of the saddle is determined by the rails of the tree. I found the link to the study I was thinking of, it’s an interesting read! https://srt2018.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/03/SRT-18-10.pdf?fbclid=IwAR3wefAZr4JbeVkaGALkeqOhbQ6VYGZ6X0KJwzm6rBD6g-3vsiZzkfF1-xs

As far as “breaking it in”, I was referring to the new flaps which are very stiff. I was wondering if that was adding to my issues with a wider twist since the flaps aren’t draping the side of the horse, making me have to sit even wider.

sheltona01 I haven’t completely discounted Black Country! My local fitter thinks the trees on the jump saddles won’t be the right shape for her. She’s croup high so the Eden works well for her even though she’s not a traditional “curvy” back. She’s concerned that the other trees will be too flat for her and bridge. She tried one (I wanna say it was the Vinici?) and it wasn’t the right shape at all. So it would probably have to be a custom saddle, and would probably cost double what this one does.

The specialist fitter is thinking that the back pain isn’t from a wider twist, but from a change in balance. She said that pain from a too-wide twist usually manifests itself in upper thigh pain, not lower back pain. The saddle might need some flocking adjustments as it looks like it’s tipping me forward at the trot/canter. So I will contact my local fitter and see if she can come out and take a look.

[BatCoach]

Since your lower back is hurting and not your hips/ IT bands even after your ride maybe it is a fitness/balance issue?

I had to get my saddle’s tree adjusted from a MW to a W and it certainly feels different! It takes a few walk laps to get accustomed to it, but after my hips warm up and stretch its a comfortable ride. I also found that doing hip openers (goddess pose, cobbers pose, pigeon pose etc) and straddling a yoga ball helps when I do them daily. Foam rolling out your IT bands will provide some relief as well.

I would try doing stretches and see if it helps at all. Of course, there is the very real likelihood that the saddle is a poor fit for you and no amount of stretching will change your pelvic width or thigh length or hip angle… I have certainly ridden in some saddles where the crotch fit was just not a fit for my anatomy. Hopefully since it fits your horse well it can be remedied.

[candyappy]

I don’t think a saddle is something you should ever have to get used to. Either it works for you or it doesn’t. The fact that you experience pain tells me it doesn’t fit you. Like ill fitting shoes , it will only get worse for you with time.

She has your mares measurements and knows what fits her now. Have her find a saddle with a narrower twist for you.

Return it!

[Jchambers]

Been there, bought the T-shirt. I purchased a Schleese Obrigado a few years back as I was frustrated trying to find a saddle that would fit my wide backed, big shouldered mare. The twist was very wide in that saddle and I could not ride in in it - in fact I damaged the tendons and ligaments in my left hip. If your saddle is hurting you, do not keep it. I wasted two years trying to ride in that saddle, ended up selling it at a loss and am now working on undoing the damage I did to my body.

[sheltona01]

Pming

[Melissa.Van_Doren]

@equinelibrium

This was my impression too, but as I’ve learned more about fitting wider horses I learned that this isn’t always the case. As sheltona01 says, the twist of the saddle is determined by the rails of the tree. I found the link to the study I was thinking of, it’s an interesting read! https://srt2018.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/03/SRT-18-10.pdf?fbclid=IwAR3wefAZr4JbeVkaGALkeqOhbQ6VYGZ6X0KJwzm6rBD6g-3vsiZzkfF1-xs

That is an interesting article. Thanks for sharing.
On paper, it makes sense, but I can think of at least a dozen friends who ride in saddles with a narrow twist and whose horses have no back pain whatsoever and correct muscling. All of my saddles have a narrow twist and none of my horses have any atrophy or pain. I’m sure you could get negative results, though, if the narrow twist saddle had a very narrow channel that impacted on the withers.

The saddlers at Black Country are very talented at working with panel shape and gusset depth to get correct fits. You may not need a truly custom build after all.

[sheltona01]

I think there are a lot of misconceptions about the twist in the saddles for both horses and riders. I can not tell you how many times I put someone in a wider twist and they think it is narrower because it feels better to them. Somewhere along the lines people were told that only a narrow twist is the only way to get the best position and that is not true. Just like the horse, your anatomy needs to match up to the saddle’s to be comfortable and in a good position. In my opinion, saddle fitting is a battle of millimeters and one slight adjustment can make a world of difference for good or bad.

[Jax]

@equinelibrium

As far as “breaking it in”, I was referring to the new flaps which are very stiff. I was wondering if that was adding to my issues with a wider twist since the flaps aren’t draping the side of the horse, making me have to sit even wider.

Sorry but no, this is not true. New, stiff flaps might cause some soreness on your legs, or feeling like you can’t quite get your leg on, but they should not be causing the back pain you describe. And I’ve had the wrong twist hurt me all over, not just through my thighs (though that’s probably where you feel it when you initially plonk down).

@equinelibrium

The specialist fitter is thinking that the back pain isn’t from a wider twist, but from a change in balance. She said that pain from a too-wide twist usually manifests itself in upper thigh pain, not lower back pain. The saddle might need some flocking adjustments as it looks like it’s tipping me forward at the trot/canter. So I will contact my local fitter and see if she can come out and take a look.

Now, on the other hand, riding in a 16.5 when you should be in a 17.5? That could absolutely contribute to a sore back, especially if on top of that the twist is wrong for you. Just think about the mechanics here, you’re sitting on top of the saddle instead of in it (too small), and then it’s wide enough that your legs aren’t sitting right (twist)? My back hurts just thinking about it. I don’t know what the solution is since you say your horse’s back won’t tolerate a larger saddle, but you’ve gotta find a compromise.

[walktrot]

The primary reason I went saddle shopping before I had my own horse was trying to find something I could ride in without being in pain. Significant pain, at times. I was riding one of the BO’s horses but nothing worked, mostly because the seat was too small. She gave me some basics, advised a medium to medium-wide tree, said to look at Stubbens, and sent me on my way to Pelham Saddlery in New Hampshire with my $1000 budget. This was back in 2000.

I spent a chunk of the afternoon trying just about every dressage or AP saddle they had in my budget, new and used. I learned about brands, the good ones and the bad ones. What to watch out for in used saddles. Different tree size measurements between brands. Quality of materials and workmanship. We didn’t talk about twist, but I know now I can’t ride in a narrow twist. Stubben caused incredible pain, others brands less so. If the twist was okay the seat probably was too small. I got my AHHHHHHHHHH moment when the store manager pulled out an Albion GP 900, well over my budget but the ultimate in comfort. A year later she had the all-time perfect saddle: Albion Original Comfort dressage, 19’", wide, short flaps, extra-deep gussets. Special order on consignment, new.

My understanding back then was that Albions had a wider twist. A significant take-away from that first visit: the saddle has to fit you as well as the horse. The Pelham staff I worked with were fitters, and I took the saddles on trial. If the fitter is suggesting you can compromise, like give it time to break in, you should stop and think. We know that a saddle has to fit the horse. if it doesn’t fit you there isn’t much you can alter that will change the fit. My saddle is perfect for me, but if you are taller and skinnier you hate it because the stirrups bars are in the wrong place, among other problems.

[Malda]

@walktrot

The primary reason I went saddle shopping before I had my own horse was trying to find something I could ride in without being in pain. Significant pain, at times. I was riding one of the BO’s horses but nothing worked, mostly because the seat was too small. She gave me some basics, advised a medium to medium-wide tree, said to look at Stubbens, and sent me on my way to Pelham Saddlery in New Hampshire with my $1000 budget. This was back in 2000.

I spent a chunk of the afternoon trying just about every dressage or AP saddle they had in my budget, new and used. I learned about brands, the good ones and the bad ones. What to watch out for in used saddles. Different tree size measurements between brands. Quality of materials and workmanship. We didn’t talk about twist, but I know now I can’t ride in a narrow twist. Stubben caused incredible pain, others brands less so. If the twist was okay the seat probably was too small. I got my AHHHHHHHHHH moment when the store manager pulled out an Albion GP 900, well over my budget but the ultimate in comfort. A year later she had the all-time perfect saddle: Albion Original Comfort dressage, 19’", wide, short flaps, extra-deep gussets. Special order on consignment, new.

My understanding back then was that Albions had a wider twist. A significant take-away from that first visit: the saddle has to fit you as well as the horse. The Pelham staff I worked with were fitters, and I took the saddles on trial. If the fitter is suggesting you can compromise, like give it time to break in, you should stop and think. We know that a saddle has to fit the horse. if it doesn’t fit you there isn’t much you can alter that will change the fit. My saddle is perfect for me, but if you are taller and skinnier you hate it because the stirrups bars are in the wrong place, among other problems.

It might not be the narrow twist that bothers you, but the narrow seat that usually comes with a narrow twist. This is probably why you found a large seat with a wide twist comfortable.

Google “saddles built for women”. A lot of people think this is a gimmick, it’s not. I have a six inch pelvis and all saddles HURT because I’m sitting on the seams, not the padded seat. After about thirty minutes I start twisting in the saddle to get comfortable. The only saddle that doesn’t hurt is a Schleese, so I’m saving up for one. (I tried finding a used one but a medium narrow dressage saddle is rare.)

Stubbens are the worst for me. Overall a very narrow saddle.

[walktrot]

Thanks for the clarification. Whatever it was the Albion was the cure. I had heard at some point that Albions - Original Comforts - were made for women. I don’t know about the newer designs.

I did get some interesting information from my saddle fitter, Patty Barnett in Connecticut (who apprenticed with Gary Severson, the “Saddle Doctor.”) She replaced the flocking 3 years ago, but I had to make some adjustments last fall for a combination of the horse’s back dropping and significant weight loss on my part. She brought the cantle up about 3/4" with wool and I added a rear riser pad. It all works nicely. Patty said she has found that the balance point on British saddles is a touch farther back than other countries. Raising the cantle moves it forward a whisker, closer to the horse’s center of gravity. It’s easier for him to carry you and the ride is smoother and lighter. A few people don’t like it so she adjusts it back.

[Dressagelvr]

Trying to force your body into a wide twist when that’s not what your body wants is no different than cramming a narrow tree on a wide horse.

It just won’t work.

You will ride poorly and your horse will suffer.

Saddle shopping is an art, a science, and pure hell.

Good luck. Trial, time, and patience will win in the end.

[sheltona01]

Yup, schleese took the whole female saddle thing from albion. The majority of riders are women. All saddle companies are all designing for their main client base which are women. They just do not state it. It really does just come down to what works for your anatomy.