Adults in Pony Club as Traditional Members ... for or against?

[JFS]

There has been a lot of discussion going on about the USPC integrating the Horse Masters (HMX), Like the recent USEA/USEF proposed rule changes on the levels this looks like it has been done without getting input from the Regional Supervisors throughout the country.

What are you thoughts both pro and con? I would like to hear from past and current members of Pony Club.

For those who don’t know what I’m talking about; I’m copying an e-mail that explains what’s going on.

Jackie Smith
outgoing DC Western Reserve Pony Club
Tri-State Region

Horsemasters’ integration?!!

Would you like to know more? Well, here is a sneak peek

After 10+ years of having adult members, the feeling was that it was time to strengthen the ‘grey areas’ that have existed with HMX groups. This is not just for the Horsemasters, this is also to help YOU, our leaders, to be able to work more closely, benefit from and help our adult members.

The main reason for highlighting this program is that as HMX membership is growing there have been some concerns regarding the lack of ‘control’ brought forth by both RS and DCs. Groups are expanding, it is hard for you to keep an eye on things! Where the program has been working superbly - bringing in more experts, spreading the word about PC and growing our numbers - it has consistently been where the HMX are closely aligned with the club, integrating activities and working together. The other place that it has been successful has been when the adult member group have been entirely independent from a club - although then there are some questions about oversight.

The goal is to keep the HMX as non-traditional members (separate membership category from the traditional member) allowing them to still be club sponsors and have a say(many of our HMX choose not to apply for sponsorship status as they don’t want to attend meetings), yet allow them to be integrated in to the club - so that a DC who chooses to accept adult members may designate a Jt. DC or committee chair to take care of the adult issues, maintaining oversight of what the adult members are doing in their activities.

No one is forced to do anything - just as you might not require a C member to ride with a D, or a dressage rider to play games, the schedule is set according to a club/center/regions needs. You choose your instruction, you have the right to accept/deny membership, just as always. Some clubs might have some mixed meetings/camps, some won’t. Some will have mixed clinic groups, some won’t. Rallies will be separate divisions of course, unless there is a need for HMX to make the rally viable - in polocrosse, for example.

Another of the changes we are looking at is to solidify the position of groups that are not aligned with a club. Again, we want to ensure that USPC and the regions have more ‘black and white’ oversight of their adult members. This is where the discussion of having HMX groups being able to form their own club comes in. This brings in adults who are not really interested or able to work with a established club or center for whatever reason. This can only help to spread the Pony Club mission, bringing more horse people into our family - and, as has been proven as groups have popped up around the country, results in adding to youth numbers as these adults discover Pony Club and share the mission - it has been a powerful form of advocating the benefits of our great organization!

Pony Club has something to bring to everyone. The focus is to educate anyone who is interested, on being able to better care for their horse, work and play around it safely and improve riding and handling skills. Supporting that goal with fun activities including rallies, clinics and preps is part of that. For those areas who are struggling to grow, here is a way to expand the knowledge and the family. For those who don’t have a need, then now might not be the time, so they do not need make the choice to add adult members.

For some clubs and centers, opening up opportunities to HMX has already meant not needing to cancel meetings and clinics; they have helped to grow the participation base. Increasing the market will allow for more opportunities for youth - not less! Other areas are lucky enough not to be able to relate to a participation shortage, so perhaps they aren’t going to add adult members quite so quickly.

One thing that I did want to add is that this is not a, “You must change today” message. In fact, for most groups/clubs/centers this involves no change other than a transition to group members being a part of a club entity rather than a group just being aligned with a club - and even that is going to happen gradually! FAQ and ‘how-to’ are being formed to answer the questions that we are hearing the most often, so that those who don’t participate in Digest forums have the necessary information when we talk about it at Annual Meeting. We hope to have those accessible to you before the meeting so that you can come with unanswered questions or concerns.

These are exciting times allowing for more of an opportunity for you to make more choices about how your club or center is run - and more options to give adults who approach you with an interest in being on the team!

I am looking forward to meeting you at Annual Meeting and answering your questions!

Bridget
HMX Committee Chair

[IFG]

Was a DC for many years, but I am no longer involved as my kids aged out, and my day job got much busier. I am NOT in favor of incorporating adults into the regular PC program. The part of PC that is so special is that the kids are largely responsible for themselves and their ponies. Adding adults into the mix will completely change the chemistry.

[Hilary]

IFG just said exactly what i was thinking. Part of what makes PC so successful in creating independent, competent horsepeople is that there are no adults around to rely on for help. You and your teammates MUST do it yourselves and that isn’t found anywhere else, especially in current times when parents are often overly involved in all aspects of their children’s lives.

OK I will amend to say that at lessons? Sure, a group is a group,. but the instructor should be mindful of who is 8 and who is 38 and teach appropriately for the age, as well as the riding level. But rallies and ratings should stay very separate.

You could even have them at the same venue/same time, but not on mixed teams, and the adults shouldn’t help any more than they would if they were not HMX.

[Desert_Topaz]

It’s sort of funny that, as an HMX liaison, I’ve heard very little about the proposed changes and am trying to not get my panties in a twist until it is fully explained. I’m in one of those clubs that needs HMX participation to make things happen. We have 5 kids and 15 HMX. We’re also geographically hindered. Our closest neighbor club is an hour, our next closest club is 4 hours. We need the Horsemasters to fill out spaces in clinics. For the most part we try to keep HMX and kids separate, we definitely do unmounteds separate, but it’s nice to have more numbers to draw on when we need them. For example, we have one kid jumping higher than x-rails, so we can put a couple of horsemasters in a lesson with her so they can all get the PC group rate with the instructor.

Are our kids not being as self-sufficient because of this? Possibly. But, it’s not because of HMX, because the same adults would be helping regardless. We don’t have any older, more advanced members so in the roles they would be playing we have moms. Unfortunate, but if you’ve hauled 45 minutes to a lesson mom is going to be hanging out. Our HMX group actually started because a mom was tired of hauling her daughter four hours to clinics and not being able to ride herself. The clinics they were going to benefited because they now had another rider. It’s very hard in a spread out, sparse, region to fill things.

I’ve been to a rally as an HMX. There were two HMX teams, three kids teams. The kids didn’t run over to us for help, they relied on their teammates. Now, there weren’t any moms on the HMX teams and that might be the difference. If that were the case, and the rally big enough, put the HMX and the kids in different barn aisles and put up a string the kids and adults can’t cross.

[SuzieQNutter]

Absolutely for.

In Australia, Quuensland is the only State where adults are allowed to ride at pony club.

It meant that my Mum and I could enjoy our days together. She could ride at musters and there was their own age group for competitions. They did not compete against the kids and for eventing they only had to ride the improvers course, but they had the choice of jumping the bigger course if they wanted to.

Because she had not aged out we were there to help at working bees, help in the canteen and be part of the committee. One year I was Secretary. One year Mum was Treasurer.

Fast forward to teaching my husband to ride and I have the most gorgeous pboto of him in the class just off the lead as he was not cantering yet. He is 6 foot on a horse lined up with all the little kids on their ponies.

To me it is discriminating to say you can’t join. Age is not something I can control. I can’t change it to be able to join.

[Duramax]

As a national examiner and PC instructor, I would like to see it remain as it is. It’s very difficult teaching a mixed group of children and adults. In general I find it harder to teach adults anyways. Adults tend to be whinier! In my experience it ends up taking away from the kids’ experience. I am pro-Horsemastersbut I feel like there are plenty of options for adults that we don’t need to integrate it completely.

[WeDoItAll]

I am also involved in Pony Club pretty heavily - didn’t know anything about it until it was announced by the VPRA who happens to also be a Vice RS. We had previously been in the process of establishing a HM section. My mind quickly went thru several issues and I admit I was a little perturbed.

My biggest concern was that I really feel it is important for us to have a focus on youth. As I’ve worked through this I realize that we, as a club, have the ability to adjust the budget and by virtue of who we accept to still control the club. Also by how and who I, as DC, accept as voting sponsors.

So we have decided this is a good thing and we can work with it. We are keeping our eyes open and paying attention to what this change means.

Now- the bigger issue is (and the one I think you are bringing up) is also something I thought about. How on earth could this kind of a change be made without a larger request for input and perhaps vote?

I mean I heard about it and immediately called a sponsor’s meeting. I told everyone we needed to discuss something that could potentially change the entire club. I would never have even considered dealing with this until the club sponsor’s had met, discussed, and voted on how to deal with it.

So the bigger question is - at the club level, even though we have an executive board to implement, the sponsor’s vote to make these kinds of decisions; at the regional level we have the regional board to implement, but the regional council votes.

Why, at the national level, aren’t these kinds of super major decisions brought to Corporate members for a vote? This IS huge and it does completely change the organization.

[mgoblue]

I am an older member of a club and am entirely for this. First of all, Nationals is not saying that you HAVE to do anything or actually changing any rules. They are just clarifying that horsemasters CAN do everything traditional members can “keep horsemasters as non traditional members” but you can choose to do what you want in your club.

We have several horsemasters in my club. I have loved having them and it has changed nothing in the barns. They don’t do anything for the kids and we all help each other out the same as usual. Additionally, it was great practice for me to teach them in preparation for my HA where I actually did get an adult group!

[Fergs]

As a graduate A, lifetime member, and avid supporter (my daughter hopes to be joining in 2015), I completely agree with IFG.

The entire point of Pony Club is to teach children the foundations of horse management and riding that will grow and stay with them into adulthood. They learn how to do these things on their own, without their parents or other adults guiding them (aside from those in actual leadership roles).

I get why adults are attracted to the curriculum, but they need to be a completely separate sector of the organization, not integrated where just their presence could really change the whole intent and dynamic of the organization. Gosh, at our PC rallies we weren’t allowed to even speak to an adult other than the horse managers and coaches!

[merrygoround]

Horsemastership and group riding instruction for the adult rider is a needed and great idea. But in no way should they be integrated in the the USPC youth program. Nor should they be club sponsors.

They need their own program, and their own grading instructional system. If they wish to invite present USPC examiners to grade them, or present instructors to teach them, it is a great idea. They need to be on their own , separate from the youth program.

Most DC’s have enough on their plate now, simply organizing the youth program and dealing with the reams of paperwork required.

[WeDoItAll]

I wanted to add that the instruction program for the youth members and the horsemasters members can be either kept separate or integrated depending on the needs of the club.

Also - at rallies, (at least for now) the horsemasters are separate teams and divisions. And as I believe one of the first rally organizers to have a rally that allowed horsemasters teams several years ago, I can tell you that the kids do not approach the horsemasters for information or assistance. Frankly, it was the other way around and has continued like that for the last several years.

Of course, my fear is that they will eventually integrate and allow mixed teams, but we don’t have to cross that bridge yet.

And remember, clubs have the CHOICE (at least for now) of whether to allow the Horsemasters members to join their club - or a Horsemasters group could go through the entire process of chartering a new club.

What no one has mentioned yet is the impact on testings. At the club level, the certificate earned is slightly different for a horsemaster than it is for a youth member. For example, they don’t do an emergency dismount.

However, Horsemasters members will be able to test at the national levels up through the A and the Horsemasters will be held to the same expectations as the youth members.

This means that you will now have an unlimited time to achieve your “A”…

[pheasantknoll]

I am a DC, and HMX is a big help to us. I am in favor of clubs having options/control to integrate HMX as works best for them. Our HMX volunteer for our club’s HT and fill clinic spots that make it possible for us to bring in BNT or NEs. As mentioned before, we are small and geographically challenged. They also drove a trailer to champs. We do not have HMX rally with our kids or “interfere”. Just set guidelines, people. Your club policies can address all of these issues.

[pologirl27]

It is kind of funny to see people getting upset about horsemasters ‘taking away from the youth’. I am a current member of USPC and I live on my own, work full time, pay my own bills. I believe that makes me an adult, just like the horsemasters! When the age limit moved to 21, and then 25 adults were already allowed in pony club. At rallies I get asked for help from the little kids just as often as the 16 year olds get asked for help.

My region has one very active HMX group and some of them attend rallies. I will echo the sentiment, “I can tell you that the kids do not approach the horsemasters for information or assistance.” They are on their own teams, they get their own ribbons, honestly they hardly interact with the youth members at all! I believe we should maintain separation in terms of rallies for sure, and lessons when appropriate. HMX is a great program, it gets in new volunteers for PC, fills clinics and lets people have fun. I will not join when I age out because I plan to volunteer anyways and I am kind of sick of rallies, but to many adults it seems to be a blast.

[Highflyer]

I am a graduate UL pony clubber and as much I learned from and enjoyed my years in pony club, I’m not sure I could go back. My bridle has had years of not having the underside scraped with a dull butterknife. My body sponge is defiantly unlabelled. I’m pretty sure that if I have a currycomb in my trailer grooming kit, it’s plastic. And I swore when I turned 21 that I would never again polish the soles of my boots!

In all seriousness, I find a lot of the changes PC has made in recent years questionable, but I understand that they are struggling and that’s presumably where this is coming from.

[Mango20]

[QUOTE=Highflyer;7908284]
I am a graduate UL pony clubber and as much I learned from and enjoyed my years in pony club, I’m not sure I could go back. My bridle has had years of not having the underside scraped with a dull butterknife. My body sponge is defiantly unlabelled. I’m pretty sure that if I have a currycomb in my trailer grooming kit, it’s plastic. And I swore when I turned 21 that I would never again polish the soles of my boots![/QUOTE]

Don’t be so sure! I was a graduate and 18 years later I started going through the whole thing again with my son! I’ve been a Pony Club parent for 7 years now, and with my son being 7 when he started, a lot of that scraping and polishing fell to me (I couldn’t really let him ONLY clean to D1 standards!). It’s a whole different perspective as a parent.

I’m not really sure how I feel about Horsemasters. Our region is just starting one up, and it’s aligned to the region, not a specific club. I can see the good and bad points of it. Overall, I think USPC is trying to do too many different things at once, with adding all the specialty tracks, Hunters, Western and HMX.

[Desert_Topaz]

[QUOTE=Mango20;7909262]
Overall, I think USPC is trying to do too many different things at once, with adding all the specialty tracks, Hunters, Western and HMX.[/QUOTE]

Pony Club membership is declining. They’re adding all this stuff to attract members. There isn’t necessarily anything wrong with PC, Girl Scout membership is in decline too. Why? I suspect it’s because kids have a lot of other options these days and many of them are a huge time commitment. While I love that sports for girls have taken off I’m sad that the organizations that were there before (PC, GS) are now declining. PC could die from lack of members and I think we can all agree that would be a travesty.

[GoForAGallop]

[QUOTE=pheasantknoll;7908002]
I am a DC, and HMX is a big help to us. I am in favor of clubs having options/control to integrate HMX as works best for them. Our HMX volunteer for our club’s HT and fill clinic spots that make it possible for us to bring in BNT or NEs. As mentioned before, we are small and geographically challenged. They also drove a trailer to champs. We do not have HMX rally with our kids or “interfere”. Just set guidelines, people. Your club policies can address all of these issues.[/QUOTE]

This is how it’s shaking out in my area as well too, although we don’t have an official HMX program, just a few adults floating around in a primarily-PC dominated facility. We (the few adults) are the ones with the money. We are what make it possible to bring the big name clinicians in, because guess what, we can commit to paying $150 months out, and don’t need to beg our parents to work it into the budget a week before entries are due. We are the ones with the trailers, who make off-property shows possible for more kids, when the trainer’s 4-horse rig is already filled up. Some of us are nice enough to provide nice partial lease horses for the more advanced kids, once the barn full of faithful lesson ponies can no longer offer any more challenge.

To those complaining that the kids will rely on the adults…have you, err, ever interacted with teenagers? :lol: They do not need my help, ever, because they obviously already know everything there is to know. The little kids who are still willing to learn take the rules so darn seriously that they barely make eye contact when under pressure, so that I don’t accidentally offer assistance. :lol:

[SevenDogs]

I disagree with this proposal.

I am fine with mixing HM riders in with youth riders in Pony Club lessons, but I don’t know of anything that keeps you from doing that now? I am also in favor of smaller clubs forming cooperatives to get the most “bang for their buck” out of instructors, but again, I don’t see any reason that you can’t do that now.

I am not ok with adults competing at Rallies or obtaining traditional ratings. It was formed as a youth program and should remain as such.

A lot of the changes at Pony Club appear desperate, and this is a primary example. What USPC needs to do it start making it fun. Yes, horses are work… yes, there are no shortcuts…and yes, we need well rounded horsemen and women. But, there is a way to do all of that and make it fun.

Tack needs to be cleaned and boots polished, but a lot of the adults seem to get a thrill out of berating kids and making it militaristic, which is not going to keep kids coming back for more.

I now have a 7 year old in Pony Club. Luckily, I have a lot of influence over how the club is run and it is my instructor and my horse. We plan to keep it fun. Otherwise, I will yank him in a fat minute in favor of just regular lessons, if he doesn’t yank himself first. I absolutely will not tolerate the few adults that seem to stroke their own egos at the expense of the kids (99% of adults are great – the others are very damaging).

Right now, Pony Club is his favorite exta curricular activity. I think Pony Club needs to realize there is a lot of competition for kids time and they better find a way to keep it fun.

[Ajierene]

As an adult who was never in Pony Club, I think the ability to integrate adults into Pony Club is a good thing. As others have said, adults have the time and ability to budget themselves for clinics. They are also more likely to have transportation (or at least a driver’s license).

I could be wrong, but I do not see the worry about adults helping the kids to much in rallies. Personally, if I were part of a pony club, I am sure I would be the one running for help, especially with cleaning or wrapping or understanding some obscure PC rule! I imagine the adults that go to rallies are not the A graduates reliving their youth, but the adults on a budget that want to learn more and compete - the ones that did not get into horses until they were adults or took a long break.

In my area, we apparently have one Horsemaster’s club attached to a Pony Club and two others close to the 50mile limit I selected when I searched. They are not part of a club. I board at a place with three kids in Pony Club, facility owner is a graduate and instructor/sponsor (time, facility and spare horses).

I used to enjoy the Friday night Pony Club lessons - it was Pony Club discount, but all my trainer’s students were invited and I was very often the only adult, and just as often being ‘shown up’ by the kids and their fearless riding. For someone like me, being able to be part of a club instead of figuring out how to start my own adult version would be much better.

EDIT: My understanding it that Pony Club started because a lot of parents noted their children not getting the horsemaster education they should. They formed groups to pool efforts to give the children a better horse education. Many adults are getting into horses later in life, finally having the money to afford the luxury. Why not allow these people to share in the effort and reward to get a better horse education?

[RolyPolyPony]

I second all that Ajierene said!