Adults in Pony Club as Traditional Members ... for or against?

So, since I last posted 2 1/2 years ago, horsemasters were integrated into our club. I still have mixed feelings about it. Ironically, I think that it would be much better if there were MORE horsemasters than there are now. Right now, our club has about 5 horsemasters, with 3 of those wanting to attend a rally here or there. Most clubs in our region do not have horsemasters, so there isn’t usually enough of them to have them in their own division at rallies, or if they are, there’s not much competition. This year, we had one HMX ride and one as stable manager at the show jumping rally, on youth teams. We had one ride in the dressage rally, and there were two other HMX’s from a neighboring region, so they put them in their own division and scored them as individuals. They functioned as a team had a 13 year old stable manager. One went to championships, where there were only two horsemasters teams. As far as fairness, that has not been an issue, since many of the kids are more competent than the horsemasters. The horsemasters probably have way better time management skills, though.

Going into 2018, it looks like we’ll have 15 youth members and 4 horsemasters. One “youth” is 22 and one horsemaster is 25, but generally our horsemasters have been in the 45-60 range, and ride at the D-3 level. If other clubs in our region had about 4 horsemasters, rallies with their own divisions would work well. As it is, I know of only one other individual horsemaster in the region who wants to compete (and only a few others in it for the lessons).

Lessons have been a non-issue. Our instructors like the idea, the kids don’t care at all, and if the horsemasters feel weird about riding with kids, then that’s their problem (it does NOT seem like any of them have a problem with it). We group by ability, so depending on who shows up, everyone should be with comparable peers, or if there is low attendance, our two instructors are pretty good about having multiple levels in each lesson.

Volunteering is a mixed bag. For instance, both the rider at the SJ rally and her kid were riding (on different teams), so we were not able to use the mom as a rally volunteer. We sent two teams, so 8 riders, and the organizers wanted one HM and two general volunteers per team and we were not able to give that due to using two parents as coaches, and one riding on a team. I was disappointed in the response when I asked horsemasters to pick topics and teach them for Quiz practices. I think I would have had more luck if I had assigned them topics and dates and not left it open for them to volunteer. Of the 5 we had, they all said they’d do it, but only two actually did. On the other hand, we gained some trailer drivers and one has been quite generous about sharing her pony with kids that needed one. The one with no kids and no PC background has been great - very enthusiastic and willing to learn, and also willing to help out where she can.

Horsemasters might be an opportunity to grow your club’s youth numbers as well. Get in some adults with kids, nieces/nephews, grandchildren, neighbors, etc., and you might snag the kids, too. In our case, our HMXs have been parents of current or past members, graduates, or the one non-affiliated member, so it has not increased our youth numbers yet.

I guess my overall feeling at this point is that we will accept any adults who want to join us, but will not be actively recruiting them. At 1/4 of our membership, I think the focus is still squarely on the kids, but the adults benefit too.

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They need to address why numbers are dropping. When I’ve complained about crazy over the top horse management people I’ve gotten nowhere. Every time we went to Championships there was something absolutely nuts with horse management that ruined an otherwise good trip. Just the last example - the last time we went the kids were not allowed to be in the barns one day until 7am. They were required to be at a coursewalk at 7:30. My daughter went in, fed, watered and checked her horse. Did the course walk, went back, cleaned her stall and went about the day. When scores were put up she had five points deducted for horse management. Why? Because they checked the stalls during the coursewalk and it wasn’t clean. She protested. Her teammates went with her since only one had cleaned their stall before the coursewalk. She was told that her horses poop was in piles and the other horses was scrambled around. This is just one example. Every time we have been to Championships and sometimes at rallies I have seen things like this. We went to watch the jog for the games kids at champs and the horse management woman was SCREAMING at parents to stand on the side of the jog strip in the sun not on the side in the shade because it was too close to the barn. We are professionals and around professional barns daily. What do these episodes teach my daughter about pony club? When I have complained it seems that they think kids these days are blah blah blah.
Even though she qualified we went to a summer camp together this year instead of Championships strictly because of this. It’s a shame.

rant aside - the only Horsemaster I’ve been around is a blast to have in rallies - she’s not in our club

Mango-
Thank you so much for weighing in, I really appreciate your perspective and experience. Only one of my HMX is a parent of a member so I do hope that is beneficial.

As someone who enjoys our horsemasters’ meetings and events - a group of people of a certain age with a smattering of younger members - I don’t have a clear idea of why merging us with PC is necessary. We’re quite active, but many of us have no desire to go through the levels, though some do. We mostly enjoy each other’s company and the guest speakers, clinicians, etc.

Plus, we’re kinda rowdy. :lol:

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Yeah, a lot of this was occurred even when I was in pony club-- which has been more than fifteen years, and it’s a big part of why I stopped volunteering. Endless arguments (and I am 100% serious) about what type of currycomb was required to be in the grooming kit, rubber or plastic or God forbid, a Grooma. Once I got in huge trouble for not penalizing an eight year old for having fallen in manure and being unable to get the stains off his jods. Meanwhile at a D1-D2 rally, kids were riding in huge, incorrectly adjusted gag bits we weren’t allowed to fix. I think we desperately need pc-- but I’m concerned its lost the focus on creating horsemen, not just people who can do things exactly the way the manual describes.

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I’ve just been elected onto leadership of a club that really needs members, HMX or otherwise. If they want to organize their own boozy social events that’s fine, but otherwise they will be integrated as I suspect like youth members they will have a variety of skills and knowledge. I want people who will be really active in something, whether that is ratings or rallies or lessons or unmounted sessions (or all of it!). I am happy to have them join, but for me it holds no interest. I did PC starting at 16 until I aged out at 25 so I don’t have any yearning to go back when I could show up at a recognized event looking as sloppy or as nice as I damn well please.

In Capital Region our Horse Management is really good and we are good about hiring people that actually seem to like children, but other regions and nationally it is hit or miss. I’ve had excellent and terrible HM at Champs, and for the record I only started going to champs as a 21 year old so I was old enough to comprehend fairness vs just being really casual. I’ll take a point if I deserve it, but there are plenty of nutso things that certain HM people want. I think PC has been addressing this, but too slowly.

Additionally in our rallies and at Champs I’ve seen HMX be pretty separate. They are either on their own teams or with older teenagers. At Champs they were hidden off in the furthest corner of the barn.

I’m a “younger” HMX (under 40, but barely), with aspirations to go up the levels (to A if I can). Didn’t have a PC opportunity when I was a young kid without a pony of my own, and working-class parents.

I’ve had a moderate amount of success eventing, and although I am beyond the D and C levels, will be starting at the bottom. I did hear that everyone fails the wraps, and some of the stories I have heard (putting pony back in stall, re-presenting same wrapped leg and passing) are ridiculous. My propensity for not tolerating that kind of thing is what will ultimately limit my participation. I’d really like to support PC and doing things the right way, but if they get picky with me about poop on my whites… well. Let’s just say I’m not a child, and won’t be treated as such :lol:

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For all the complaining about bad horse management judging, there is more good than bad. Unreasonable judges do certainly exist, and one had my usually unflappable kid steaming for about 1/2 a day at championships this year, but it’s really a good system to make good horsemen, and it’s as good as it is because of the high standards. For instance, wraps that fail fail for a reason, and the candidate has a second chance to do it right, if they’re able. Most that fail haven’t practiced enough beforehand. My kid practiced wraps all summer for the C3, and passed bandaging on the first attempt. Same with longeing - went from kind of sucky to very good due to lots of practice. Unfortunately the riding didn’t go as well, but I felt the examiners were quite fair. We’ll try again next year.

Pony club is learning, having fun, making great friends, and competing, but you’ve got to remember that it is a serious educational progression with high standards at its core. Sometimes it’s hard to keep things serious and fun at the same time, but I really think it’s worth it.

Having been a graduate, a mom, coach, and a club leader, my overall philosophy is that if, when you continue in your horse life beyond Pony Club, you only do half the things the “right” way, you’re still doing better than a big percentage of horse owners out there.

My advice to new horsemasters like HiJumpGrrl is to not blow off those lower levels just because you think you’re above them. When it’s time for your rating, make sure you really READ the entire standard of proficiency for the level and make sure you’re prepared to answer everything on it. You must progress from the lowest level, but you can rate through a couple of levels at once, at least at the D levels. And for goodness sake, make sure you come with your thank you notes to landowners at the D3! You wouldn’t believe how many somehow don’t think they actually have to do them.

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I think I responded when this thread was initially started several years ago and as a National Examiner I was concerned about the integration of HM’s with regular members specifically at certifications. Now, a few years later, and after having tested some adult HMaster HB candidates, I can say that I am wholeheartedly for it. PC is an education based organization and if at the end of the day we are spreading the “gospel” of good horse management practices, safety and teaching these people (no matter their age) how to be a more educated owner or rider than that is only a good thing. I so enjoyed the adult HB candidates… they were JUST as nervous as the teenage or young adult candidates and were so supportive of their fellow young USPC member candidates and helped set a wonderful tone for the testing.

Just this testing season we had a west coast NE go for her Dressage A and she was successful. I think that is incredible that she was willing to submit herself for evaluation and speaks to her belief in the USPC testing system and helps give the the system credibility.

Now on the rally end of things… if I were a HMaster I think I’d opt to do clinics and opt out of rallies. I think I’d go to a regular dressage show where wine drinking is very much encouraged and no one bothers to check the cleanliness of your horse’s private parts. :smiley:

For the record: I do not believe I’m above it! and I’m more than willing to submit for inspection. I was just relating the stories that I have heard (as many have, and shared here) that “if it happened to me” would probably limit my continuation with the program :slight_smile:

They plan to let us rate all of the D levels at once (with only D3 riding), then C1-2 at the same time (with C2 ridden). From C3 up, of course, we will follow the normal pattern. There are a few of us in our group planning to do this–I will do traditional, but two Dressage only, and at least one HM only.

It is working very well in this area - except it is absolutely about having fun, and as far as I know, nobody does tack check, so scraping the bridle with a dull butterknife is not required :slight_smile:

Just using your comment as a jumping off point – I agree completely. Plus there’s the question of perspective. How many points are racked up over the course of a rally? In some of the eventing rallies I’ve attended in one capacity or another, a team would rack up 300 points or so. Now, how many are horse management dings? 10? Do any of these competitors really think they are the only ones getting dinged for dumb stuff?

You get dinged (rightly or wrongly – depending on your level) for a scruffy midline on your horse. You get dinged, rightly or wrongly, for when your horse pops its head in the middle of the dressage test. You get dinged, rightly or wrongly, when you show up late for x or Y or Z “because I was helping Suzie.”

I’ve known parents (usually) to absolutely melt down when a HM judge, at a formal inspection, points out a problem, DOES NOT TAKE ANY POINTS OFF, but writes a note about “next time”. Non-linear over that. In fact, I used to write “boffo boots!” on formal sheets to say, “Good job with the boots!” and the kid knew from my tone and otherwise congratulatory demeanor that this was a compliment. But the parents, later, would complain bitterly (because parents didn’t know what I meant. But they were SURE it was a negative.) Obviously, I stopped doing that, but, really, everybody calm down.

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[QUOTE=aregard; Plus there’s the question of perspective. How many points are racked up over the course of a rally? In some of the eventing rallies I’ve attended in one capacity or another, a team would rack up 300 points or so. Now, how many are horse management dings? 10? Do any of these competitors really think they are the only ones getting dinged for dumb stuff?

In our instances the kids were very well prepared and hard working. Scores were close and the HM ridiculous points did make a difference in standings.

but, really, everybody calm down.

[/QUOTE]

The disdainful “calm down” attitude to complaints is exactly what I’m talking about as why they are losing membership. We’ve calmed down and take our money and time elsewhere. It’s a shame though because without those issues there is a lot of potential in pony club.

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So I have to ask, has judging gotten more critical or are parents more sensitive? I never had the opportunity to do pony club. I’m sure there was one around me but I started riding at my local show barn because that’s where my friend rode. When I lived in WA I thought about joining the local horsemasters but the woman leading it was absolutely nuts so that was never going to be an option.

Denali, I was not in pony club growing up but the problems that I have seen are not parents complaining. The kids deal with the deductions with the HM people themselves. That’s one of the great things about pony club.
I expect a lot from the kids and if they have a scruffy mud spot that they missed they nor I think that’s an unfair HM deduction. That’s not what I’m saying.

Then I am clearly missing it:lol:. Forgive me.

Denali I find it much harder to articulate my point in this context - it just hit a sore point for me and is in fact veering off topic!

It’s all good. I can’t see how high standards are a bad thing. But the extent some of the judges apparently take? Well not for me. My unwillingness to join was more due to general ignorance than anything else. The woman who was running it was not exactly the most knowledgeable horsewoman and it was her way or the highway.

I look at the horse management judges as a way to expose kids to real life. They will have a college professor or a boss at some point in their life that wants something done better and it is a good life skill to be able to learn to handle feedback and critique without melting down. I can attest to this because I do not handle criticism well. :stuck_out_tongue: (Disclaimer: Of course I am talking about legitimate things that would call for points to be taken away, although that’s a good life skill to have too- to know how to go through the correct inquiry/protest procedure and/or to be able accept feedback you feel is silly or arbitrary and “argue” your point tactfully and with a smile on your face.)

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