Hi all
I’m a visitor from the Dressage forum, writing for advice for a friend. She has a teenage daughter who is a hunter/jumper rider and desperately wishing to buy her first horse. The girl is in a program with a local trainer and has taken lessons and part-leased horses for a couple of years. The trainer is telling her she is very talented and needs a horse of her own to progress. The concern is that my friend and her husband know absolutely nothing about horses and have two other children who don’t ride. My friend is very cautious about taking the first step, so I said I would try to find out some of the considerations they need to think about.
The biggest one for me is that they would be totally in the pocket of this trainer - who seems like a very good person, but very young themselves (24) - who is busy growing their business. The girl is 16 so likely out of school in two years. I have recommended leasing for that time, but of course she is pushing hard to buy a horse. She has just been to her first A-level show and is wild for more. We live in a geographically remote area so travelling to look at prospects would be expensive also.
What say the wise minds of the H-J forum? What does this family need to think about/do before taking this on?
Questions I’d consider them to ponder:
- If trainer up and left tomorrow, do they feel like they have an adequate grasp of local boarding options, farriers, vets, etc. that they can independently make decisions for a horse
- If daughter decides not to ride in college, does the value (monetary or emotional) of purchasing and reselling a horse in two years outweigh leasing a nice horse
- In the event that horse sustains an injury as is unrideable, are they equipped to serve as a retirement horse for this horse or make other challenging decisions
- What does this trainer stand to gain by pushing a purchase over a lease
- How would this trainers interest and investment in the student change if a horse is not purchased
- What commission arrangement does the trainer use and is that clearly outlined
- If a horse is purchased without direct input from the trainer, is there still a commission and is the horse still welcome in the program
- Has the family fully fleshed out what board, farrier, annual vet, emergency vet, insurance, lessons, and training looks like and then added another 20% for misc that is horse ownership
- Are they prepared for the tough initial expenses like a saddle fitted to the horse, all other tack, blankets, etc. that can quickly total into the high 4 figures or more, especially in a barn that does A shows
If they are this green and the girl is 16, they absolutely should NOT buy a horse. Lease, lease, lease. I recommend a jumper, unless they have a ton of money.
Your instincts about leasing are spot-on for two specific reasons:
- If the kid goes to college in two years, it is a financially wiser decision to lease.
- If the kid is basically an advanced beginner, the horse she needs in a year won’t be the same horse she needs today.
If the trainer is trying to push them towards buying, I would be very leery of the motives. I can’t think of a good reason for a person in this situation to buy.
The naive person believes that they can buy a horse, ride it for two years, improve upon it, and resell for more money (or at least not lose money). BAHAHA! I don’t have enough room in this space to list all the ways that plan can fail!
I hope these people will listen to you. To date, I have been unable to talk anyone out of their stupid horse decisions because everybody thinks they know everything nowadays. At least I have good stories.
Remind parents here trainer has a conflict of interest between best interests of daughter and best interest of their business, As do all trainers, its unavoidable. BUT the better, more experienced, successful trainers realize honesty in setting goals for clients is better for their long term reputation then immediate financial gain selling them horses and training programs.
They need to understand all parents want to hear their kid is a budding superstar but they don’t stop to think how much income trainer stands to make if they jump in to finance kids rise to stardom (and trainers new truck?). Its a BUSINESS. Not a neutral third party swooning over kids talent. Nothing wrong with running a for profit business, long as that part is not forgotten. Done properly both sides flourish, ulterior profit motive takes over trainers mindset, naive parents can regret their choices.
Thing with the situation as shared by OP, this kid is aging out in 2 years, likely headed to college and there are siblings that don’t ride. Leasing sure sounds like the better choice here then sinking 20-40k+ into the money pit that is ownership and praying it stays sound enough to sell in a couple of years. And puhleeeze don’t let them believe trainers “Oh, dont worry, I promise I can easily sell it in this market.” Yeah, right but what about in 2 years after it blows a suspensory in a recession?
One other thing, is daughter being rewarded by judges in shows? Are they getting praise from from anybody not being paid to advance her a a rider? Or is everything trainer telling them about how talented she is just clever marketing aimed at parental dreams?
Daughter here can learn much by leasing several horses as her ability improves without worry about growing out of it or trying to sell it when she ages out and heads for college.
Just another thing: many riders, junior or adult, ONLY LEASE and NEVER BUY horses. Had I only followed this advice! Not sure how you or this family measures “success,” which clearly has many different meanings, but the most “winning” junior riders at our barn do not own the junior hunters they ride or their equitation horses or jumpers. These cost a veritable FORTUNE to lease, that’s for certain, but they don’t own them. Most of our children’s and adult hunter riders (3ft) lease their horses, as do those riding in the 2.6 divisions.
Lease and lease and lease.
She is going to progress faster than her parents can afford to buy and sell horses.
If trainer doesn’t have leases available, go somewhere else.
Another point to leasing: if this child has just gone to their first A show, and is possibly fairly new to the sport, as they’re at the point of needing to move off lesson horses, they may make a LOT of progress in two years time before heading to college. What they probably need now is a 2’6 packer to show them the ropes and build confidence.
But after a year of that? They may be ready for a solid 3’ Children’s Hunter, or even something that could stretch into the 3’3 Juniors before they go off to college.
Those are usually not the same animal. Leasing would allow them to find that confidence building packer for a year, then reevaluate what they want/need for another year before the young lady heads off to college. It would also only commit them for a year, to expenses they may not fully realize.
It also doesn’t hurt to point out that as has been mentioned in plenty of other threads, they will be buying at the top of the market, and most likely looking for the same sort of 2’6” to 3’ unicorn that everyone else in the country is looking for.
Then I’d point them to the “Six-Figure Salary Not Enough” thread for an additional reality check of the cost to compete in the hunters. NOT for the faint of heart, or the average of income anymore!
The trainer says the child is very talented and needs a horse of her own to progress. So, I’d ask:
-
What can be accomplished owning a horse versus leasing? Specifically, what is the goal? Winning specific divisions?
-
What is the child’s goal in two years once she goes off to college? Is she likely going to go off to an intensive, possibly expensive program? Will the money sunk into the horse be money taken away from her college money? Is she planning on staying closer to home and may possibly keep the horse? Is she wild about horses and willing to make sacrifices to keep riding and do college at the same time?
-
Is she really wild about horses or does she just love the atmosphere of this particular barn and structured program, and the fun of showing? There’s nothing wrong about that, but I’ve seen parents and kids get tunnel vision about competing against barn mates, forgetting there is plenty to enjoy with horses beyond the bubble of this particular barn.
I don’t even see this as a “naive buyer getting duped” question. I just see it as a practical question. What maximizes the happiness for this kid? Very likely leasing some quality, ready-to-go show horses.
If the kid has only 2 years more of riding before college, she can get a LOT more bang for the buck on a lease. Assuming they can spend $X on purchase, and this is a show lease, they will spend 2/3 $X for two years of leasing. This means if they wanted to, they could lease some much fancier and nicer horses for the same amount they were willing to spend on purchase. Let’s say they have $50,000 to spend. That should lease you two years of horses worth $75,000. That’s a MUCH NICER horse.
True, they won’t have the horse at the end but they’re not buying a horse for an investment or because they love horses-- they are buying two years of their kid riding and showing and enjoying herself. If the family isn’t horsey, with limited time left (2 years before college) I would for sure be maximizing the money by leasing the best and most suitable horses possible. I would feel differently if others in the family loved to ride (i.e. mom could ride the junior mount when the kid went off to college or there was a second kid coming up the ranks to take over) but if this is the ONE family member that rides with 2 years left-- lease the best horses you can and enjoy those two years.
The kid can ride IHSA in school and then start over with buying/leasing a horse when she graduates if she’s still into it.
a highly respected trainer once told me that my then 10 year old daughter rode much better than what I could afford.
I still laugh at his candor
Indeed, the hunters are a joke and there are very few to buy for pretty much any price. At the last Devon, I know of at least two ponies that were being tried for sale at 600 and 700k. Yes, this is the top of the heap, but why not bring it up. In my division at a big show recently, at least two horses were known to have been purchased for 1m or more. In more reasonable show settings, it is certainly not like this, but nobody should kid themselves, get out while you can! Get a low child jumper! Best bet for 3ft hunters in my experience is to have a highly experienced trainer than can keep a quirky leased one going with a very involved regimen of care and hypnosis.
Jumpers are second most fun after eventing IMO but let’s be honest, not every kid has the grit.
Kids that age and riding level should do equitation for a few years then move to the jumpers, imho. Or do Pony Club and learn to event. Stick to the more objectively scored sporting side of the horse industry and you will be happier and in better company. And yes, this kid should lease and aim for some local medals or the childrens jumpers prior to college as a realistic goal that will make her a better rider.
The hunters is literally a competition for who has the fanciest horse and can ride it the best to show it off in a very specific way. The skills are barely transferable to other horse sports (many hunter riders quit after HS and never ride again) and it is an exercise in frustration for a beginner or someone on a budget. In Europe the equivalent classes of show pony and show hunters are mostly filled with very accomplished kids and adults riding either their families sale horses or VERY expensive show horses.
In many parts of the country there is a thriving local hunter circuit where you can do just fine on a plainer horse if you find 8 (because most kids and amateurs don’t) and you would be hard pressed to find equivalent shows that offer jumper classes. It’s very market by market.
OP says they live in a “remote market” but we don’t know where.
There’s definitely an argument to be made for a kid without a need for speed focusing on the hunters and doing local rated shows. But I think there is a potential (not necessarily, but a potential) red flag with a very young trainer (not much older than the child herself, really), pressuring a non-horsey family with a kid soon to go away to college to buy a horse and sort of taking advantage of a kid wanting her own horse and probably wanting to be competitive with her friends. A good mid-level trainer should at least say something along the lines of, “here are your options if you want to do X versus Y.”
I will also say that while I have seen some very nice lower and mid-level show-type barns, kids who just “do the program” can miss out on acquiring pretty basic horsemanship and knowledge. It’s true we don’t have all the info about the girl’s goals, show records, and the program itself.
I’m not really sure why people think it takes grit to ride in the jumpers. I did it for 20 years and I’m not a gritty gal. You can just ride it like an equitation course. If you can put in consistent double clean rounds, you’ll win ribbons.
Remember y’all that this is whisper down the lane too. OP was told by her friend what the trainer told the friend.
Possibly there was more of a list of options given but the friend heard what she wanted to hear (ie “your kid is talented and we should buy her a horse”) or there’s some bias because the kids been begging for a horse so the parent hears that option louder than the others. We know the kid “desperately wants to buy a horse.” It’s possible some LARGE measure of this is coming from the kid, not the trainer.
Or perhaps this is all driven by what the parent asked in the first place. If the parent went to the trainer with “what is it going to take for my kid to be winning at the As?” The trainer may have said “you need a serious show horse” and parent heard that as “you need to BUY a horse.”
All we know is that parent went to the friend and said parent was thinking about buying a horse and trainer was on board and would help find one. We really don’t know what was discussed or the full context so I’m reticent to start impugning the trainer. Honestly, from the original post it sounds like the KID is the one pushing hard for the purchase, not so much the trainer.
I used to use a Training/Modified Jumper class to warm up for Medals.
Sometimes we pinned, usually not, as I never rode for Time.
More to show the horse rollbacks, tighter turns, something other than OutsideDiagonalDiagonalOutside 
@vxf111 Agreed
