Advice/insight needed: trying to create a plan with dad for the family horses after mom's passing

[DA2_1990]

Hi everyone,

I’m hoping I can get some perspective and information on how to best plan for our two family horse’s future. What have others done in similar situations? Apologies if this is a bit ranty. It’s a tough time.

My mom passed away in July after an excruciating and incredibly fast battle with cancer. For the last few years, my mom was the sole caregiver of our family’s two horses. Until a few years ago, I lived closer to my parents, and before that, I lived at home, so it was the two of us caring for them. These horses have been in our family for 15+ years. One was my high school event horse, and the other was my dressage horse that I trained since he was a youngster. They are now 22 and 28. I love them dearly and am so thankful they are here to help me grieve.

When my mom got sick, there was sort of this transition period where my dad started taking over many of the duties. For a bit, my mom was able to feed, turnout, clean stalls, and my mom and dad did chores together. As things progressed, it was my dad, sister, and I, juggling horse duties between hospital visits and so on. I’m sure many of you have experienced similar-- it was a lot of coordination on top of the stress of my mom being terminally ill.

Several years ago, I tried to have conversations with my mom about where the horses would go if something were to happen. She was resistant. That they would never leave her care. But she didn’t account for if something happened to her.

When my mom was first diagnosed, I started reaching out to barns closer to me because I expected they would need to move. My mom was open and actually excited about this idea and that I could have more time with them.

Unfortunately, my dad, mom, and I never had the chance to have a conversation together. But as my mom’s disease advanced, I started bringing up the idea to my dad of the horses moving closer to me, and actually, my husband and I just bought a house where we could create the infrastructure for them to move to our place. My dad has been adamant that he will be the one to care for them.

Obviously, just as it is for me, the horses are a part of my mom for my dad. I understand and do respect that. But in the 30 years my family has had horses, my dad has never been involved with them. He didn’t want to be. Then, he had to learn. This spring was the first time he put a halter on. So my major concerns have been 1) he has zero horse experience, which, luckily they are easy horses to handle but anything can happen. 2) My dad has many health issues, and as we learned with my mom (who was the one who was always healthy), anything can happen to us at any time.

Still, he’s adamant he will continue to care for them. I visit a couple of times a week to thoroughly look them over, groom, help with chores, etc. Things are fine–everyone is healthy. There are great, equine-savvy neighbors who keep an eye out as well. But I have been asking that my dad please be open about their future and the idea of them coming to live with us one day. I just feel like there has to be a plan for them in the event that my dad gets sick because ultimately, their care will fully be my responsibility. His response is that “he isn’t going anywhere” and comes from “good stock”. I just think that’s the most insane and irresponsible thing given what happened with my mom.

A lot of this is that I really do want to care for them. I respect that my dad wants to as well, and that we can “collaborate” on it since I’m visiting regularly. But I feel a major sense of responsibility for these two. They are a huge part of me, and also the relationship I had with my mom.

I just wish he would talk about a plan for the future. I feel like it’s irresponsible not to. But maybe I’m being too much. Insight is appreciated.

[endlessclimb]

While you both are grieving deeply no doubt, he’s lost his daily partner. There’s no way I would take those horses from his care - they’re what’s going to help him get through this, I think.

Can you channel your energy into getting him some lessons in ground handling and a crash course in horsemanship and care?

Keep pushing the conversation of “if you get sick, then what?” but I would not be trying to remove them from his care. Sounds like between you and the neighbors he’s got a great support system. Everyone gets to spend time with the horses as it is.

Situations are fluid. He may want to care for them for a few months and then decide he doesn’t anymore. They are his connection to his life partner right now though - he needs them.

[luvmyhackney]

Ya’ll are both grieving. Give it time and he will tell you when he’s ready for you to care for the horses. He might continue but he might need a break eventually. Support him in his wishes.

Use this time to teach and bond with your dad. What better way to learn than with two golden oldies who are in great shape for their age.

If you want to care for them, go do that a few times a week like you are currently doing.

[Djones]

Agreed. Those horses are his link to his former life with your mom. With his wife gone, there is no one between him and the abyss. He is enjoying this activity, this motion in his life. Let him have it, and let it lie for a while.

As for the ‘insanity’- it’s true. You’re right. He should be more reasonable about just talking about it. The thing is, as we age, most of us lose more and more of our executive function. We lose inhibitions, common sense, consideration for others.

The good news is, these old horses have a set routine, right, and are wise old men watching out for the green old man. Chances are good he’s relatively safe among them. Would it help you feel a bit safer to have a barn cam installed? We installed a nanny cam at my elderly parent’s house and some days it pisses Dad off (he puts a solo cup over it because they app is beyond his skill set) but most days he appreciates that one of us will see that something’s wrong should something happen when mom’s sitter isn’t there.

I know you want your horse’s home, too. I respect and feel that. Maybe give it a six month rest and see where you are. Does he live where the weather will be a concern?

[poltroon]

Give it time.

It’s awesome that you have neighbors with an eye out. That is huge.

Here’s another thing you may not have thought about: while he has the horses, you are coming to see him a few times a week, not just the horses. Maybe he also loves that time with you and is fearful (correctly or incorrectly) that when the horses go your visits will be less frequent.

Of course these visits are a lot of time for you that you may not have, but grief is a heavy thing, and as mentioned, with age there is often cognitive function lost around empathy and fully grasping what is easy and hard for you.

Let it be for now, but also, in the long run, maybe your dad needs a change of situation to be closer to you as well. Honestly he probably needs your supervision for his own welfare more than the horses do, especially if he doesn’t have his own friends regularly coming in to visit.

[DA2_1990]

Thank you for your thoughts. I appreciate you taking the time. I definitely wasn’t trying to move them anytime soon, but just want to have a conversation like you said: “if you get sick, then what?”. But my dad doesn’t think he will get sick, which is a bit frustrating for me, as he has been hospitalized several times over the years, and has had half of his feet amputated. It’s just worrisome.

But, they are two amazing horses, who know their home and routine. Everything is fine right now. I just would rather have a plan for the future than my dad getting sick and me trying to figure out what to do, especially when that could mean they, one day, live with me.

And you’re absolutely right. Things and situations can change. He might experience wintertime with horses and realize he wants to take me up on my offer! Lol. Thanks again.

[DA2_1990]

Thanks for your thoughtful and insightful message. Approaching winter has been a concern for me. I did teach him how to blanket the other day, since that’s something he hasn’t learned yet.

We live in Virginia, so not Minnesota winters but still. My dad is a diabetic who has lost several toes due to infection, so he does have to be careful getting around.

[Djones]

Doing what you can to make blanket closures easier will be a huge help to him. Bending down to do those fiddly belly straps is aggravating to blood pressure and balance. Some clip modifications would be wise. Same goes for leg straps- skip them if you can.

[trubandloki]

I think the stress of life right now has you wanting to organize things, which makes complete sense.

I too like having a plan with all the details figured out.

In this case, I think there really is a plan, just not a spoken plan. And that is how it is likely going to be for a bit, while your father figures out his new life with out your mother.

When the time comes that the horses are too much for him, they will then be your responsibility and you will have to step up and take over. Until then, your dad is holding on with all he has. Let him hold on, plan the best you can for if/when you have to have a place for them.

[Posting_Trot]

In some ways you’re in a good situation in that it seems like you will be able to take the horses if something happens and you need to.

I don’t know where you’re located, but this will be the first winter that your father will have to care for the horses (?). If that’s true and you’re in an area where winters are tough, he might struggle more with doing all of the care. You should keep an eye out for signs that it’s becoming too overwhelming.

But for now, I’d agree with the others who’ve posted: he’s invested in the horses because of how much they meant to his wife/your mother. You need to let him find his own way through the grief and responsibility, if at all possible.

ETA: I wrote this post and somehow it didn’t get posted when I originally wrote it. In the interim, you’ve answered the question about winter. And I’d also agree with another poster that your father may see the horses as the link with you as well, and wants to keep as many members of his family (human and otherwise) in his orbit.

[DA2_1990]

Thanks for the feedback. You’re right-- if it weren’t for the horses being there, no, I probably wouldn’t visit as much. I care about my dad and his well-being, but he has inflicted a lot of hurt in my life that’s taken years to overcome. We recovered and our relationship has improved as I’ve gotten older, but he kind of ruined a lot of that lately.

During the time my mom was sick and since she passed, he has quite literally dumped all of his thoughts and feelings about my mom, onto me. All of his resentment from their marriage, about her not being a good wife, unfounded suspicions about her and who she was as a person. It’s absolutely disgusting. She was MY mom. And worst of all, he was doing this to her just before she found out she was sick, and while she was ill.

Of course, I don’t know all the interworkings of their relationship. But I do know the things he says are awful regardless of how bad of a wife she apparently was. My heart breaks having to protect her memory from him. He may counter the things he says with saying how much he loved my mom, but it surely was not in a healthy way. This isn’t just him grieving. This is how he is and the types of things he did years ago that caused pain.

And now, I’ve learned that just two months after she passed, he’s on dating sites. Because he apparently hasn’t felt loved in decades. So it’s hard for me to understand why he has any attachment towards the horses, aside from the fact that he’s using them on his dating profile.

Having to constantly set parameters for this relationship is an added layer to my worry and stress that I have to continually weigh. The horses themselves are the easy part of all of this. It would be entirely different if I went over and spent time with the horses and him and we grieved together. But spending time with the horses while having to navigate boundaries with him is taxing. Luckily I have a good therapist.

Sorry for the TMI.

[beowulf]

Foremost, I am sorry for your tragic and sudden loss. Your family must be grieving deeply. I’m grateful the horses are still in the picture and have so many parties concerned for their welfare.

From the outside looking in, it sounds as if you moved and were hands off until things became dire. You may be upsetting a status quo that your father needs to cope with his wife’s loss. Your father is likely using the horses to help with his grief. They will keep your father fit and accountable. He may enjoy the work and find a sense of purpose he has not felt in a long time taking care of them.

People say and do peculiar things while they are grieving.

What is the contingency plan if you get sick? You will take them on at your house, and you will be responsible for their food, vet bills, etc? Are you ready for this step? It is a huge financial burden.

Could your grief and your past history with your father at all be contributing to the tangled way you feel right now? This reads like a control issue with the horses only being a small part of the picture.

Can you invest your energy in helping your father care for the horses (maybe buy him some training, or show him how some things are done), and in the meantime get your own place set up for horses? He may tire of caring for them eventually - they are work - but right now, his place is set up for them and yours is not. You don’t need his permission to set up your place for horses in the interim.

See how he feels come winter. In the mean time it sounds like your therapist will be a great asset for you - some of what you shared sounds incredibly stressful. If you’ve managed to claw yourself out of a fraught family dynamic, and now you’re being sucked back in, I would tread very carefully and give yourself time and grace to sort this all out.

[Posting_Trot]

Your reply provides a much fuller picture. I can see where you’d have many conflicting feelings that you have to work through. The horses aren’t necessarily even central to all of this except insofar as your dad has custody of them but may not in fact be the best custodian for them.

Good luck as you deal with all of the complicated issues and feelings. Try to care for yourself as well as the horses.

[Christa_P]

You said in your first post that you could create facilities for them at your current place. It might be worth actually setting it up so you could move them to your house on short notice in case anything happens, or your dad finds out he can’t take care of them in the winter.

[OverandOnward]

IMO, don’t push your dad. It’s stressful, and IMO it’s unnecessary to do this to him. That’s my take, it might not be yours. Because in the end this is not his decision. You are gently getting him through these years as comfortably and peacefully as you can.

In your shoes, so long as the horses are being cared for and that’s do-able for the time being, I wouldn’t even bring it up. If he wants to talk about it, fine, otherwise I wouldn’t touch the subject with him.

His peace is what matters most. Let your dad be as happy as he can be doing this task for your mom, as he sees it.

Because - again, IMO - the horses are never leaving the farm, they are where they belong for life. When he can no longer care for them and no one else can either, they go peacefully and with love over the rainbow bridge to where there will never be another jeopardy to how they live.

And believe it or not, your dad may be comfortable with that at the time even if not before. It is surprising, sometimes, what people will accept when they feel that it was both inevitable, and that they participated in determining that this is the best option.

If, on the other hand, your dad is not rational and/or reasonable, due to dementia or any other issue – then one day you discover that you have to call the vet out for both of the horses. And the vet finds they both have an untreatable, fast-worsening, fatal condition, and it is better to release them now before they suffer. There may have to be some urgency to this, or you can peg the final transition to your dad’s mental and emotional state. You have to find a vet with the compassion to go along with this, as not all will do it if they don’t understand mental conditions.

At this point, some decisions are yours. Your dad is involved until that’s no longer reasonable or rational. But he thinks he’s involved, always. Just keep your own fallback plans back of mind.

Communication between you and your dad can stay as normal as possible, because that’s what is most comforting to him. Keep things open that he can tell you if he’s feeling weaker and/or less well, without a big reaction from you (or anyone else). And without that triggering questions about the future for the horses. Simply accept what he’s telling you in a neutral and supportive sense.

If he’s worried that if he shares a personal concern, he’ll get a reaction that will force changes, he won’t share. So make it safe for him to open the subject, to discuss little and larger things, with a neutral and accepting response, without him feeling that he then automatically loses control of decisions.

He himself will bring up care of the horses when he knows he’s not able to keep up – if it’s been comfortable for him to have discussions. And if he’s rational and reasonable. Very gently you can work around what is best for the horses and you’ll likely both agree that it is best that they don’t have to relocate, ever. It goes from there.

I hope this makes sense. And I hope there is a gentle and fair way forward, for your dad, for the horses, and for you and your family.

With my late dad, the day finally came when he agreed that I would do his federal income taxes and he didn’t need to be involved. I know how silly this sounds, but in his mind, that was as big a leap as your dad letting go of the horses. My dad always had 100% control over every aspect of his finances, he spent a lot of time just looking at statements and things, and he was very opinonated about his income tax form. I was really surprised that the day finally came that dad agreed, but he did. He didn’t even want to review the finished form it with me. It was a landmark moment, but it was definitely a necessary one.

Another landmark day was the day my dad’s beloved truck had to disappear. That he drove every single day of his life. “We” (my siblings and I) had discovered that it wasn’t running properly, and it had to go to my brother’s house (5 hours away) to have a mechanic look it over and see if it could be fixed. In the meantime, of course I was there to drive my dad to wherever he ‘needed’ to go - the doctor’s office or McDonald’s or the bank. We expected a massive explosion from dad. But he never said another thing about the truck. Except for one time when he asked about it, “they are still looking at it”, and never asked about it again.

I never lied to my dad, he was part of every decision, as he began to mentally decline … until the other landmark day when it was absolutely necessary to say whatever it took to keep him calm that day. From that day on, he had to be told what he needed to hear to get everyone through the day, that we were going to see his (deceased) parents ‘later’, that some business he wanted to get lost in and pester for irrational answers had closed, whatever. At that point, the ‘truth’ didn’t matter any more because he was no longer making any decisions, whatever he thought he was deciding.

Your dad’s journey will be his own, of course, different from my dad. But my experience is not to build it up in your mind as a series of difficult decisions. Just coast through as best you can, and enjoy all the time with your dad that you can. That’s all that matters.

[DA2_1990]

Agreed. It’s definitely on our upcoming project list.

[endlessclimb]

I see more of the picture now. The relationship between a mother and child has no bearing on the relationship between husband and wife. He is allowed to feel the way he feels.

That said…

I would tell your dad point blank “dad, I can’t talk to you about your marriage struggles with mom.” And switch topics. Try to salvage what you can of your relationship with him, if you believe it to be beneficial to you. If not, keep what you need to be able to keep tabs on the horses, and no more.

[OverandOnward]

@DA2_1990

During the time my mom was sick and since she passed, he has quite literally dumped all of his thoughts and feelings about my mom, onto me. All of his resentment from their marriage, about her not being a good wife, unfounded suspicions about her and who she was as a person. It’s absolutely disgusting. She was MY mom. And worst of all, he was doing this to her just before she found out she was sick, and while she was ill.

Of course, I don’t know all the interworkings of their relationship. But I do know the things he says are awful regardless of how bad of a wife she apparently was. My heart breaks having to protect her memory from him. He may counter the things he says with saying how much he loved my mom, but it surely was not in a healthy way. This isn’t just him grieving. This is how he is and the types of things he did years ago that caused pain.

And now, I’ve learned that just two months after she passed, he’s on dating sites. Because he apparently hasn’t felt loved in decades. So it’s hard for me to understand why he has any attachment towards the horses, aside from the fact that he’s using them on his dating profile.

I don’t know for how long this behavior has been around with your dad … but if it is in the last few years, in all honesty – this behavior is a major red flag for early signs of dementia.

As brain pathways become closed off and diverted, one of the things that can be forgotten is love for a special person. It’s horrible to say, but there are men and women who drop a ‘good’ and loving marriage of decades, and take off with someone else, not because there was a problem, but because they lost the thread to how they have really felt.

Paranoia and accusations are also part of the package of red flags.

Of course I have no information about how your dad has lived his life. If this has always been a behavior pattern. Or if it is a change that came about at some point.

It’s hard not to be angry about this type of behavior. But the more you can see what your dad does neutrally, more as being a caregiver and less involved in his emotions, the easier it will be to manage.

But of course this is a signal to be cautious of his care of the horses. That could be forgotten as well. Or become part of his paranoia. And yes, then you have another set of decisions to make about the horses. Good luck to you!

[Mango20]

I was agreeing with everyone that it’s too soon to push this change, but your update about him being on dating sites already makes it unclear. Maybe it is too soon anyway. Just go ahead and set your place up for them and tell dad that whenever he doesn’t want to take care of them anymore, you’ll be happy to move them to your place. I suspect trying to take care of horses over the winter might do it, because even I sometimes wonder why in the hell I’m doing this.

Grief and the departed person’s stuff can be dealt with in strange ways. When my father died, my mother I guess needed some sense of control and was a little too focused on cleaning out his 3 car garage/shop, which was totally not an issue at all, as everything was inside it, and my mother never went in there other than to get the riding mower. I thought it was very weird. She’s not moving or worrying about cleaning out the cluttered basement, but for some reason that cluttered garage needed immediate action. I think some of it was delaying dealing with her emotions by keeping busy, and some of it was that all of the paperwork and things that did have to be done were too overwhelming for her, and here was something she could control. She got rid of his clothes pretty quickly but won’t let go of his smoker, thinking one of the guys in the family would use it for a family dinner sometime. It’s been 20 months so far and no one has. My sister and I have learned the art of gently nudging our mother into making decisions we think she should make, like getting a new car, new riding mower, a financial advisor, and backup generator.

[DA2_1990]

You’re the second person who has said this to me. My therapist was the first. I told her about his jealousy back when my mom was still alive, because it was breaking her heart, and I had no idea how to support her.

Granted, I don’t know if this was normal behavior inside the relationship, but I do know when my mom told me about it, she was incredibly bothered and hurt and said it came out of no where.

I’ll definitely keep an eye out. On everyone. Thanks for your insight and good luck wishes – boy, do I need it!