I agree. I definitely wasn’t trying to move them right away, just wanted my dad talk about a “what if” plan for them. Especially given how quickly and unexpectedly my mom was taken.
It’ll take us a little bit to get our place set up anyway but my husband’s thought was similar – to set the place up just in case.
It’s interesting how you described your mother’s grief journey. It sounds similar to my dad’s. Certainly can be strange and the family dynamics just feel like they are ever changing.
Sounds like your dad has first dibs here?
You may have to wait your turn, which may not be such a long wait, until something with the horses or your dad changes.
Keep asking for future plans, but assure dad that his wishes come first.
Once he is not battling for the horses, he may mellow and consider making plans, more than one, according to what else may happen.
I’m sorry for your loss and all you are dealing with. I was wondering who legally owns the horses? If it is you, and their care becomes a concern that’s one thing, you can do what you want with them. But if Dad owns them, then things could potentially get messy if you try to move them.
I think he is probably using them as a means to cope and if he and the horses are doing OK, then let it be for awhile. But if their care suffers and you do need to step in, I think you need to know where you stand regarding ownership.
Have a look at some YouTube channels like Social Catfish. Your dad is a prime target for a romance scam.that could bankrupt him. It’s crazy what lonely older people men and women both will believe. The scams are organized crime with stolen photos usually run by people in Africa out of the reach of American law. if they get to him they can drain all his assets.
Set a boundary with your father. Sound it out, write it out, say it, mean it. Do NOT be a vessel for his issues with his wife. Do NOT. Listen to your therapist!
Get your place set up for the horses. Just get it done, gates and fences and the like are needed anyway.
I doubt he’ll let you, but if he will let you have access to set up alerts and constraints on his accounts, cards, etc are very important safety steps that would help protect him from bad results.
Of course your mom, his wife, is the person who would most know. “Out of nowhere” is the biggest red flag of all.
My heart goes out to you and your family. This does not get better. It goes only one direction, and there is no cure.
Also, whatever his condition(s) are, they are further along than you know. Parents especially are often quite good at putting a better face on things than is true.
You need to speak to a family-matters-expert lawyer without delay. Even if your siblings are reluctant to join you. An informational meeting could be very helpful.
You need to make sure all of the assets, financial and real property, are as secure as you can make them, and your dad can’t dispose of them on a whim.
I don’t know how many siblings you have. But if you can set something up where at least two or three of you (including your dad) have to agree before things can be done at a certain dollar limit, it might help. And any real property transactions.
This situation can be a huge challenge for the family, because there are few options to getting financial control of an adult, even for their own protection. Unless they agree to the controls. My dad agreed, another thing I would have thought would never happen, but it did.
Do you think he’d be willing to go to a cognitive psychiatrist (there is a better term) and be assessed? It might help a great deal, for everyone. My mom did that voluntarily so that she and the family would know, and could plan.
Sounds like your therapist is a great person to have in your court.
This, x1000.
In addition to online scams, if he does date – even if he’s just socially out & about in town – it is astonishing how certain people will know how to glom on and become his New SO. Even Wife. And obtain significant control over his finances.
This is very hard, and I’ll hold good thoughts for you.
Have you expressed this exactly to your Dad?
If you let him know you’re not questioning his ability to do as he says, but rather worrying about a possible future for yourself, maybe that approach will make him willing to discuss the What Ifs.
ETA:
I had posted before reading your added info re: your relationship w/Dad.
I’m agreeing with those who say it may be grief, dementia or - as you feel - the marriage was not as you thought.
In any case, unless you are the horses’ legal owner, deal with your Dad for their sake.
If their care declines, you can try to legally take them. But that could open a rift that won’t ever heal.
Wishing all of you a time to heal & resolve the issue.
Thank you for the insight and for the good thoughts.
I agree with everything you, and others, have suggested said. After talking with a couple of friends, it’s become pretty clear to me that the issue could very likely be early signs of dementia. I’ve been reminded of when my mom first told me about his jealousy before she knew she was sick, and how incredibly upset she was. She almost left him. She said after 40 years, this was the first time she ever felt that way. I constantly checked with her to see how he was being. Due to his health issues, he’s susceptible to UTIs. She asked him to go to the doctor to make sure that wasn’t what was causing his paranoia. He did and there was no UTI.
I’ve experienced dementia with my grandmother, but had no idea this could be a sign.
I don’t think he’ll be willing to go see an expert. I don’t even know how to broach the subject. Maybe when he goes on his rants, I can tell him that it would be a good idea to speak with a doctor about this because something is not right. I don’t know. I need to talk to my sister a little more. Being the oldest daughter, I am often interpreted as bossy (as everyone could probably gather from my original post). Some of this might be better received from her than me.
In terms of what you, @Scribbler, and others have suggested, I agree, he is the prime candidate to be scammed. Wouldn’t you know it, I told him that when he said he was on dating sites, and he said the woman he hit it off with–poured his heart out to–asked him for $4k after chatting for a week. He didn’t do it, but these scams come in so many forms, and he thinks he’s much smarter than that. But he literally has no idea.
Yes, I have said exactly that. Many times. His most recent response is that he comes from good stock and isn’t going anywhere. Says the man who has been hospitalized multiple times over the course of the last decade.
I think we just have to prepare to have the horses here. If it never happens, like another commenter said, we will have fencing and gates that we will need anyway. But if he gets sick like he has in the past, then we just move them. At that point, there will be bigger issues for him, and all of us, to deal with.
In terms of ownership, neither horse has papers or a bill of sale. There might be a bill of sale on one, but in that case, my mom would have been the legal owner and in the will, it states all of her assets transfer to him. The other horse was given to us 15 years ago and we didn’t have any paperwork. My dad and I somewhat split the bills and expenses–not sure if that serves as proof of anything though. I honestly think if he were to get sick, he won’t fight me on them moving, but it’s the lack of planning and thinking nothing will happen to him that’s pissing me off. Especially for how healthy mom was and then gone in four months.
Thank you for the good thoughts and for your feedback, it’s much appreciated.
I’m so sorry you’re going through this on the heels of having lost your mother. And you’ve gotten so very much good advice. Seems a few of us have been there as well. It’s a privilege to be there for one’s parents, but a terrible privilege. As I was reading this a friend called who is in a somewhat similar situation with her husband, and it is never easy.
All I can add is that when your dad is in a good frame of mind, try to have a chat with him about contingency plans. That’s what worked with my (very controlling) father. Especially with horse care added in, a slip and fall on an icy patch could result being hospitalized with a broken hip. So you and your sibs should have plans worked out with him for horse care, house care and financial coverage. My sister and I got put on my parents’ bank accounts for just that reason. We never had to interfere, but we were able to see any weird transactions that might have occurred, and at the end we were paying the bills etc. We had lists of all the credit cards, retirement accounts, insurance policies, tax payments (property and income) and set up the routine bills on autopay.
Navigating this with a resistant person, especially a parent, qualifies one for bringing peace to war zones. It is incredibly difficult, and I wish you all the best as you work through it.
And about the horses: is there a local 4-H, Pony Club, or any source of mature-for-their-age young horse lovers who could serve as a backstop for you on horse care? Maybe they could start by “learning” from your dad, and then taking over a shift or two a week. They could be eyes on the ground for you when you’re not there as well as being available if your dad does break his hip.
One of the best things you can do for yourself is to change your own perspectives on how you deal with your dad. It may come more easily than you think, if you keep refreshing the whole big picture, not just any one issue.
Have mental talks with yourself to dial down your frustrations with your dad. Lower your expectations of him, on every front. Your reactions are not about him, they are about you, in this situation. You are in control of yourself. He is not in control of himself.
Without any formal ceremony or announcement, you are becoming the parent, and he is the child being cared for. But this child has always ruled the household and thinks he still does, and it’s ok to let him think so.
Two things are not going to be easy for your dad. They both will be easier for all if handled, rather than confronted: Acknowledgement of change in himself, and actual changes in his circumstances.
Don’t think of this as ‘problems with dad’s attitude and broken emotions’. Think of yourself in a caregiver role. Neutral and objective. Less reactive to what he says and does. Not taking it personally (that’s hard).
Try to direct your thoughts and reactions, objectively to yourself, from a neutral caregiver perspective, ‘ok this is what we need to do next about that’. In a way that causes the least possible confrontation with your dad.
You will be working around him, as much as through him. Keep the larger perspective always in mind. The 30,000 foot view, as some say. It helps keep a context for things that don’t make sense.
Adjusting your own reactions can make it much easier to get through whatever is coming next. With your siblings and other family members as well.
Sounds like you have already formulated a good game plan for the horses. That you can enact with or without your dad’s involvement in the decision. Based on the circumstances at any given time.
The world of your family is tilting and rearranging. People are going to react to that very differently to these changes. Some may even refuse to acknowledge that anything is changing. Keep your own perspective intact, and try not to let what other people do and say become too personal. Thinking good strong thoughts for you and the whole family!
This. Keep your own set of records. You need the names of account institutions and full contact information, as well as account numbers and so forth. Plus, you need his Social Security Number and driver’s license number always accessible.
This is going to help enormously in the event of a sudden change that incapacitates your father from dealing with his normal financial affairs. Including paying monthly bills.
Many accounts want a ‘helper’ to be formally authorized by the account holder. You can often do this over the phone. Also, every time you call an account to ‘help,’ they will want a fresh verbal authorization from your father. Crazy that they take a voice over the phone as ‘authorization’ but they do.
Make some time to spend on this and to keep up with it. It can be surprisingly like having another job!
When your dad is ok with it, go with him to his bank(s) and meet a bank officer who works with his account. Just have a chat. “My dad has been a long time customer and I’m going to be helping him. I just wanted to find out if there is anything we should know about allowing me to help.” It can be informative. Also it does acquaint someone with the special needs of a particular customer. And make sure they have your contact information.
Don’t hide from the locals that your family is giving your dad extra assistance. You may get some helpful phone calls "I saw your dad doing ___, and I just wanted to be sure that you know … "
If by chance you live in a small enough town where key bank employees recognize your dad and know him by name, go with him several times and become their customer-friend as well, associated with him. Make sure they have your contact info. At some point you may get a call "Hey, your dad is here with a friend, and I just want to be sure that it’s ok if he … " Even if that’s not strictly regulation. There are bank employees who do care about their customers.
And while all this is happening get your place ready for them, so when the time comes for dad to pass the torch, it’s all ready.
I think you need to let this go.
Or deal with what’s really behind this, cause you can set up your place to house the horses in the future now, today, without a conversation with dad or a plan, or a date, etc.
It’s going to take time and money to do it.
Until it’s done, there’s no need for a conversation/plan.
Get started.
Yes, get everything ready, because I bet the day a new friend doesn’t want the horses around, or talks him into moving into town or something. I don’t think you’ll get much notice when he decides the horses aren’t part of his life any longer.
Great advice, thank you. The idea of my dad having dementia or some type of cognitive decline is a new and major layer to consider with everything else, and it’s daunting. But shifting my mindset and probably getting some additional support and resources will be helpful for me… and much healthier, lol.
Everything has changed so much and so fast this year. New and changing dynamics. It’s unchartered territory and it’s a lot.
It’s really hard when someone whether a parent or partner or even a friend, who has been the person in control in the relationship, starts losing ground. Doesn’t even have to be dementia per se, just normal aging or long term illness. You tend to trust their judgement then be surprised and annoyed when they make unexpectedly bad decisions. Or just are confused.
And of course they rarely realize this.
So in these situations you absolutely do need to start being more parental even if the person neither recognizes or appreciates the change.
Here are my 2 cents worth: Over the last 3 years me and my family suffered some catastrophic changes. I was diagnosed with Cancer, while I was in the hospital my dad passed away.
Once I finished chemo I went to stay with my mom for a while, as her house mate and longterm friend had fallen ill and passed away. While I was there, my husband fell in and was in and out of the hospital for the next year, finally passing away last October.
So here I am, far away from my mom, so I can’t just go over there for coffee. We both have a houseful of animals so we can’t just up and go either.
We talk every day, sure, but the animals are the single most reason we are putting one foot in front of the other, getting out of bed and getting on with life.
I would be very surprised if this was not in some form a thing for your dad as well. For a moment his health doesn’t matter as much, he is doing something that perhaps also makes him feel close to his wife.
And he may have some depression/grief issues there. It’s only been a year. It’s still new. Not all ‘firsts’ checked of the calendar.
And frankly, there are a lot of people out there with less exposure to horses who cared for them.
Make the conversation about him, give him an opening to talk about his emotions.
I mean, you and him are in the same boat. You lost the mom, he his partner. You are both in a whirlwind now.
My thoughts and sympathies are with you.
If no one else has said this yet, it seems to me—based on handling my parents’ affairs—you need power of attorney. Without that, banks, medical people, no one can legally share any information with you about his accounts etc. Get that as soon as possible, because if he is mentally declining, it’s very hard to obtain if he is diagnosed with dementia or “not in his right mind.” Maybe you can pose it to him as being able to offload some of the administrative or bill-paying burdens, etc. But without it, you will be pretty helpless to do anything legally.
