Age-group equitation & Grand Prix riders?

[Midge]

[QUOTE=AllOverFarm;9021576]
Winning a blue ribbon against 10 yr old girls when your a 17 yr old boy… whether you’re a working student or not… it doesn’t seem like a something to brag about. And if I was looking for a pony for a young child I wouldn’t want to see it go around with a 17-year-old boy. It would make me think the pony must be super tricky.
Especially if a working student is working for a barn were younger kids are available to show green ponies.[/QUOTE]

Why do you keep bringing up that he is a boy?

I have a young friend like your ‘boy’, except she’s a girl. When she posts about a win in a pony division, it’s generally along the lines of, "What a great pony. Thanks to owner for the fun ride!’

[red_mares]

[QUOTE=AllOverFarm;9021576]
Winning a blue ribbon against 10 yr old girls when your a 17 yr old boy… whether you’re a working student or not… it doesn’t seem like a something to brag about. And if I was looking for a pony for a young child I wouldn’t want to see it go around with a 17-year-old boy. It would make me think the pony must be super tricky.
Especially if a working student is working for a barn were younger kids are available to show green ponies.[/QUOTE]

That’s just dumb. The pony is by definition GREEN. You put more experienced riders on GREEN horses or ponies. It’s the way you make them and not screw them up.

Why wouldn’t someone post about a win on one of these ponies? Most of them are for sale, it’s a way to get the pony’s name out cheaply to those who are looking for an up & comer.

[findeight]

When riding for somebody else, horse or Pony, Junior WS, catch rider or Pro? It is expected that rider will publically praise the horse/Pony performance and thank the owner for the wonderful opportunity on such a nice animal that did so well. Especially if it’s Green and/or for sale.

Its called marketing.

[Cannonball]

The previous 3 posts are along the lines of my thoughts. The people complaining about this come across as extremely self centered. They’ve only seen the situation through their own circumstances. And they’ve only focused on the rider. How many times has an overqualified horse showed a kid or adult how to handle a new height, type of course, bigger ring, indoor ring, etc?? There is no difference between an overqualified kid training a young horse or an overqualified horse training a kid.
Unless you raise and train your own horses, you’ve likely purchased a horse that can get you to the next level. Meaning the horse is more prepared for the division than you. Or bought a young horse and showed it in a lower height so you (the more qualified rider) could show the horse the ropes. Is this unethical or unsportmanslike or whatever other ridiculous term you’ve chosen? Did you hang those ribbons on your barn banner (and brag).
I think it bothers some people that some kids have more opportunities and ability than they do. They are jealous. I get it and I’ve seen it but that’ just life. Some people have more money, more horses, more natural ability, better trainers, more chances to ride, better work ethic, a higher level of commitment, etc.

[dags]

If you attend WEF, expect to see Grand Prix riders in your Eq classes.
If you attend Ocala, expect to see Jr/AO Jumper riders in your Eq classes.
If you attend Gulfport, expect to see about what you’d see everywhere else in your Eq classes.

Very few home circuits have a junior jumping the big Grand Prix classes. If they do, 9 of 10 times they are in Wellington for the winter.

There doesn’t need to be a rule because this level of disparity pretty much only happens in Wellington.

Legislating so that everything is a Gulfport is a slippery slope. Case in point, discussion about limiting the experience of Medal Final riders just 3 months ago. Add these two rule-changing theories together and suddenly a talented 16 y.o. rider has nowhere to show the equitation. Eq may have devolved into a bit of a perch-fest, but it is still an important part of a young rider’s curriculum.

And no dissing of Gulfport here either… I never understand why trainers haul their lot down to Wellington and pay ungawdly amounts of money to put a whole bunch of DNPs on their horse’s record. Feel like this need to be seen in the Big Sandbox, regardless of the needs of the students/clients, is potentially a larger problem. A possible underlying cause to other discussions going on around here.

Kid is simply on the wrong circuit, which is absolutely fine, as long as the adults around her make it abundantly clear that the whole idea to spend $$$$$ in Wellington for 3 weeks is a learning experience.

[kirbydog]

I think a lot of people for get that the horse business for some people is a business!! And if you are selling equitation horses, you put your best eq rider on to train and market them. If you are selling ponies, you use your best pony rider. Why wouldn’t you?
I still get so frustrated on these threads that want to generalize all horse show people as cheaters, when maybe, just maybe, you just weren’t good enough. God knows, we have cheaters, but this is definitely not the case here. My question is why do people have such an issue with somebody trying to (legally and ethically) prosper in this business?

[RoughOut]

Fwiw this happens in other circuits as well. AQHA has tried leveling. But a girl who has won multiple world championships and Congress championships in Western Pleasure has no problem showing in Novice Horsemanship(equitation)

Different skill sets like Eq versus Jumpers. Of course she has access to better horse flesh than the kid fresh off the 4-H circuit. But for some a win is a win and it’s not against the rules to show below your ability

[541hunter]

I just think this is one of the few ways junior riders with less money can manage to make it to the top—riding green ones in the popular divisions. Look at Maggie McAlary—she funded her junior career buying green ponies, making them up and selling them. She was a Big Eq kid showing in the green ponies.

Personally I think it’s admirable for juniors to take on bringing along a greenie (or just help by showing one), which usually requires they drop down a level or two or three to start.

[LowerSaxony_Jumper]

To level it out you would need to use a very diffrent System. More like points you recieve for placings and split like that. So like if you are winning more often you compete against other people winning more often.

We use this System in germany. It makes it fairer but still depending on how they split it Is still hard. It leads to way fewer classes but more sections. Like everyone pro, kid or ammy can enter the 1.1m but its split by points.

If you think about it a Young pro starting out probably has less experience a Full time ammy with seven horses has.

I think it keeps the level up but its just diffrent