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How was she trying to back him? Did he give any warning that he was uncomfortable before he bit? What happened after he bit her?
Send him back now.
Send him back really. You shouldn’t have taken a project like that.
The horse is dangerous. Get yourself a horse you will be able to ride, train and have fun with.
I don’t understand why people buy those “projects” they can’t handle. These horses need profesionnal trainers, not average amateurs who wants to “save” poor dobbins. Sorry, rant over. We see too many of these threads and it rarely ends well.
“Track Manners”
I may need my flamesuit after posting, but I once went to a Derby party where a trainer arrived late, hand bandaged, because a filly she had in training had bitten her finger off.
She was happily telling everyone what great “spirit” that horse had.
Other trainers there told me they kept them tied short, but otherwise never corrected this show of poor manners.
{shrugs} who was I to argue?
My own OTTB was a snaky biter - he’d lash out for no particular reason.
Grooming was a favorite excuse for nasty & he once nailed me on the bicep when I was hosing him off after a sweaty ride.
Also bit a groom on his back when the poor guy was cleaning the stall.
What I did was to carry a short bat (riding whip, not baseball) in my pocket & if he so much as pinned his ears he got a smack on the shoulder.
If he still thought he could escalate he got yelled at like the Wrath of God had descended.
Eventually he got the idea that I’d allow ugly faces, or biting at a stall wall, but teeth could not ever be aimed at a human.
You need to be supremely aware of body language - watch for pinned ears, slitted nostrils, wrinkled lips, tail swishing - anything that might remotely indicate he is thinking about biting.
Make sure everyone who might handle him is aware of the bad habit & can act appropriately to prevent it.
Hope your trainer can add to this list.
I had my guy for 20yrs and toward the end of his life he would nuzzle me & I did not have to worry that teeth might follow, but I’d always keep alert “just in case”.
[QUOTE=alibi_18;8212272]
Send him back now.
Send him back really. You shouldn’t have taken a project like that.
The horse is dangerous. Get yourself a horse you will be able to ride, train and have fun with.
I don’t understand why people buy those “projects” they can’t handle. These horses need profesionnal trainers, not average amateurs who wants to “save” poor dobbins. Sorry, rant over. We see too many of these threads and it rarely ends well.[/QUOTE]
Cause it needs to be repeated.
If come to Jesus moment isn’t in your vocabulary or skill set, this isn’t the type of horse for you.
I remember when you were considering this lovely horse. His profile indicates that he needed a patient and experienced handler.
I would call New Vocations and discuss your issues with him. They, of all people, should be able to assist you since they worked with the horse initially.
Don’t be afraid to admit that he’s not the horse for you, if that’s what you decide. Please don’t be heartbroken, as you indicated in your first post. Please don’t take his behavior personally. Try to deal with it in a professional and no nonsense way.
I don’t agree that this is “track manners” because most of the trainers I know wouldn’t tolerate this biting. This horse sounds quite intelligent and perceptive (per his profile). He’s probably reading his handlers and determining that he can try to get away with this garbage.
This is also why it’s so important for a first time horse owner to be in a program with a trainer, especially if the new horse is an OTTB. By program I mean boardig with, where the experienced trainer is there daily to handle the horse and help you with problems like this. Not to come out once a month or so for a lesson.
If you have to board him or keep him in a situation where other people need to handle him, you need to send him back. It’s not fair to ask anyone else to risk being bitten.
[QUOTE=maunder;8212288]
I remember when you were considering this lovely horse. His profile indicates that he needed a patient and experienced handler.
I would call New Vocations and discuss your issues with him. They, of all people, should be able to assist you since they worked with the horse initially.
Don’t be afraid to admit that he’s not the horse for you, if that’s what you decide. Please don’t be heartbroken, as you indicated in your first post. Please don’t take his behavior personally. Try to deal with it in a professional and no nonsense way.
I don’t agree that this is “track manners” because most of the trainers I know wouldn’t tolerate this biting. This horse sounds quite intelligent and perceptive (per his profile). He’s probably reading his handlers and determining that he can try to get away with this garbage.[/QUOTE]
Quoting for emphasis. ALL THIS.
I understand you don’t want to “give up on him,” but I think you need to change your mindset. It’s not “giving up on him” it’s simply giving him a better/different opportunity.
It’s hard to say how much of this is an aggressive horse vs. a horse that needs better handling and training and can snap out of it. Biting a couple times could be nothing, or it could be extremely serious and about to escalate. I’ve seen what happens when it escalates, and it can get very, very bad. Since you already have this horse pegged as being aggressive, I’m going to go with the latter, in which case unless the horse is with someone who is very good with this type of animal, the behavior will escalate until someone gets really hurt.
And if it escalates that far, not only can someone get really hurt but now it’s harder to fix the horse, and he’s in a far more precarious situation than he’s in now (the behavior is more ingrained, which makes him less marketable and makes it harder to find a home and a HUGE liability, which means you’re starting to look at options like euthanasia).
In a lot of cases it really is simply a matter of enforcing respect for space and giving the horse a job and making him work (and investigating any physical issues as well, sometimes it’s not at all obvious). But if you’re not the right person to do that or you start backing off and getting fearful, it’s not the right match. And that’s potentially far worse for him than if you “give up on him” now.
I had a biter, not an OTTB but a old school ASB show horse, and not nearly as bad a you describe. I don’t think there’s a huge difference in how race horses & show horses are kept - no nonsense, but at the same time a tolerance for them being a bit ‘wild’ or thinking they are 100’ tall.
As someone else said, you need to be ready to have the “come to Jesus” talk at any moment. You need to be on your toes and willing to correct, REALLY CORRECT, bad behavior. Not “bad horsey” in a wimpy voice, but really bark & growl, carry a whip & be prepared to use it.
My mare was ok in my situation. The dutch door was NEVER OPEN. The BO had grown up with show horses & was tougher than she looked. The other boarders stayed away. It didn’t take too long for them to figure out that “the poor horsie’s” door was shut for a reason. I had good back-up & learned quickly that discipline was non-negotiable. Horse knew that I knew that discipline was non-negotiable.
If someone didn’t beat your horse to within an inch of his life immediately after badly biting someone, send him back now. Even if there is reason, there is still no reason for biting or kicking.
The horses’ profile from NV states he’s “crotchety” and “would rather not be groomed and tacked up”…so they were aware this horse was aggressive-or had a grouchy personality.
I have a QH gelding who has ALWAYS been this way. The key to this type of horse is to be watchful and on guard at all times. VERY consistent handling is also key.
I ALWAYS lead my guy with a chain over his nose. I ALWAYS lead the same distance away, and NEVER just drift along with him walking however HE pleases to go.
Not sure how many people are handling him, but consistency is key. Everyone needs to demand the same obedience/amount of space, etc. Some other posters have touched on this through experience as well.
…I’ve had my guy for 12 years now, over the winter I let my guard down, and he almost bit my face-pissed I was in the stall with his fresh hay (standing over it), giving him fresh water. Needless to say, he got a CTJ moment over that, and he goes to the back of the stall now whenever I enter it. He didn’t forget it… You-and other handlers HAVE to be able to do this, or his behavior will escalate. Good luck.
There are too many nice, well mannered horses needing homes to put up with a nasty biter. Send him back!
[QUOTE=Horsegal984;8212270]
How was she trying to back him? Did he give any warning that he was uncomfortable before he bit? What happened after he bit her?[/QUOTE]
Does it really matter? There is never an excuse for biting “pretty badly”.
Your post contains many indications that this is not the horse for you.
You knew that the horse was problematic before you got him, yet you didn’t already have a trainer in place. It appears that you didn’t have a trainer help you decide if you had the skills to bring him along. At the first HINT of trouble (which was before you went to see him, since his profile started that there were issues), you didn’t arm yourself with a professional program.
This is a bad sign.
There is no shame in reconsidering a “fit”. Please return the horse unless you have the funds to place THE TWO of you in full training with a qualified professional for at least six months, with the plan to stay in partial training until you can implement the skills you learn on a consistent basis.
It may be behavioural, but I’m just throwing it out there that pain can make some horses extremely nasty.
If you’re totally heartbroken about him, I’d absolutely check his teeth and treat him for ulcers before giving up on him. This stuff could be an easy medical fix.
Please be careful :).
OP, I’m so sorry you’re going through this.
For the rest of us, here’s how we learn what ads really mean. Descriptors of this horse on New Vocations:
“Crotchety old man” (even though he’s not old)
“Doesn’t care for the carousing” of the other horses (so what is it he does when they “carouse”?)
Have to turn him out with only 1 or 2 others (or else???)
You can’t touch him: he’s perfect for photo shoots (sure, nobody’s touching him)
He “could really do without grooming and tacking.” So he’s most definitely a noli me tangere personality. Not fun for the amateur.
“Every touch is magnified.” Yikes.
“Tough shell”
“Still pretty tight” Could read this two ways.
Sired by “one of the hottest sires in racing currently.” I’m thinking they didn’t mean by hottest the most popular. 
“Certainly destined…like his sire.” LOL, I’m thinking whoever wrote this can make a living writing descriptions of sketchy houses for sale. It’s an honest description there for all to read. If you really read.
Good luck, OP. Track manners can be overcome; you’re doing the right thing by involving a trainer.
First of all, please do be careful and never turn your back on him. Trainer has been called, good. I have been lusting after Tapaway for months…good luck, I really hope everything works out for you!
My OTTB was a rescue. Came to us half starved and had been off the track for a year or two. I took him from the rescuer on a week “trial”- she basically said that if he turned out to be crazy she would take him back. Day 2? Day 3? He was hanging out in his stall, door open, stall guard up. I asked him (mostly clucking and gently touching) to back up so I could duck in to the stall. He didn’t move, so I grabbed (gently!) that muscle right where the neck ties into the chest. I don’t know if that’s a common method, but we’ve used that to ask horses to back up for years with no problem. That horse lunged at me, mouth open, knocked me across the aisle. I truly don’t know if he was trying to bite and missed, or if he was just trying to be nasty and shove me back. Either way, it was scary and it busted my front tooth and it was not good. I was a fearless horse crazy teen so I decided to stick with him. But I never entered his stall without a halter on his head and a crop in my back pocket.
ETA (forgot to mention) that while I was picking myself up, my friend/BO went in there and addressed the horse with a crop immediately.
Don’t recall when, but fairly soon after that incident (less than a month later) he tried to be nasty again. Mouth open, ears flat, snaking his neck at me. But he had a halter, and I had a crop. I let him HAVE it. I didn’t draw blood or do anything abusive, so please don’t jump on me. But I let him know right then and there that I was the alpha and he was NOT to EVER show aggression to people EVER again.
I had that horse for 6 years, and he never once pinned his ears at me again. I was absolutely alert and cautious, but we got to the point where I would medicate/blanket/mess with/play with him loose, in the pasture, no halter or crop or anything. I could turn my back on him. I could do dumb, not-recommended, unsafe kid shenanigans with him, and was 100% confident that he wouldn’t come at me. And he didn’t.
I’m not saying to condone bad behavior or keep a dangerous horse in a dangerous situation. I’m just saying that sometimes it’s just nasty manners that can be corrected. It’s not always a hopeless case. That said, please do be careful and do not bite off more than you can chew. If trainer thinks this horse is bad or dangerous or more than you can handle, there is no shame or failure in returning a poorly matched horse.
I had an aggressive horse that I ended up putting down. He bit two people who weren’t fussing with him in any way that deserved a bite (not that anyone deserves a bite, but one was during just stall cleaning and the other was when someone was hanging out in front of his paddock).
When I took him home to live with me he was still aggressive. We had daily arguments about who was boss. Daily. He never got it. I could never let my guard down around him. I had to be careful about who handled him and how and when I realized what a huge liability it was, I had him put down. I was just waiting for the report that he bit someone else, and that was a stupid position to put myself in.
The horse had some physical problems that made him uncomfortable and I think as they worsened, so did his attitude.
I gave him as good a life as he ever had and certainly better than he would have been fated to have if I sent him down the road. No way in hell would I sell that horse or give him away, even with disclosures. I would always worry about what would happen to him or to anyone else.
The best thing to do for him was to put him down. He had a good life with me, was loved despite his antics, got to eat pasture and live with friends and be a horse. Not much more he could have wanted than that (well, except to be sound and pain-free, of course).
And to be clear, I tried trainers, chiro/acupuncture, diet, massage, saddle fitting, shoes/no shoes, everything I could think of. It was just him and the way he was and it was dangerous.
[QUOTE=alibi_18;8212272]
Send him back now.
Send him back really. You shouldn’t have taken a project like that.
The horse is dangerous. Get yourself a horse you will be able to ride, train and have fun with.
I don’t understand why people buy those “projects” they can’t handle. These horses need profesionnal trainers, not average amateurs who wants to “save” poor dobbins. Sorry, rant over. We see too many of these threads and it rarely ends well.[/QUOTE]
I don’t see where you got enough information from the OP’s post to decide that she’s forever unable to deal with this horse.
Look, OP, biting is an act of aggression, but I see how that can happen in a horse (who has some other things wrong) and was being asked to back up.
There are so many elements to managing and training a young horse. Has he been let down from the track? He’s no longer racing fit? He’s got enough turn out?
With babies, I’m very vigilant. I don’t expect them to know that they can’t say “No, I donwanna and eff you for trying to make me.” I respond with the degree of “I’d rather not” or “I’m not sure” or “You’re not the boss of me!” that they offer. But I don’t turn my back on one who I think might bite or kick until I have convinced myself that this horse knows he must submit to me and be polite.
If this is your first young horse, I think you would do well to get a pro to help you. Spend the time and money you need to on that training.
Good luck to you.
Carry a crop, pray, and God bless:lol:
