Aggressive horse - please help!!!

[mvp]

[QUOTE=Anne FS;8212471]

“Crotchety old man” (even though he’s not old)
“Doesn’t care for the carousing” of the other horses (so what is it he does when they “carouse”?)
Have to turn him out with only 1 or 2 others (or else???)
You can’t touch him: he’s perfect for photo shoots (sure, nobody’s touching him)
He “could really do without grooming and tacking.” So he’s most definitely a noli me tangere personality. Not fun for the amateur.
“Every touch is magnified.” Yikes.
“Tough shell”
“Still pretty tight” Could read this two ways.
Sired by “one of the hottest sires in racing currently.” I’m thinking they didn’t mean by hottest the most popular. “Certainly destined…like his sire.” LOL, I’m thinking whoever wrote this can make a living writing descriptions of sketchy houses for sale. It’s an honest description there for all to read. If you really read.
/QUOTE]

Oh my. Now that is the kind of information that adds to the OP’s post.

OP, I have done young horses and I wouldn’t choose this one for myself. Life is too short.

He sounds like a “professional ride”-- a horse that won’t be easy to manage or ride now, if ever. If you do have the option of giving him back to a safe, knowledgable group of people ilke New Vocations, I think you should do it. I would in your spot and I would not feel shame. It costs the same to feed and train the right horse as the wrong one.

[MoonWitch]

[QUOTE=NoDQhere;8212416]
There are too many nice, well mannered horses needing homes to put up with a nasty biter. Send him back![/QUOTE]

^^^This exactly!!

Sounds like there is something seriously wrong with this boy and the way he is wired. He needs professional help before he seriously hurts someone.

[Dressagelvr]

I’m unwilling to jump to conclusions based on very limited information.

OP, if you are sending this horse to a good trainer, give the trainer some time to work and let you know about suitability.

I do worry that you may not have the skills to manage an OTTB, but sometimes with good professional help, it CAN work.

Above all,listen to your trainer, not people who know neither you nor the horse.

[Dewey]

A horse like this can be managed, but they are not for the faint of heart, and having an aggressive horse is a risk. I had one once, and I learned a lot from her and loved her, but I wouldn’t do it again. She bit many times and did hurt someone seriously once. I was lucky not to be sued.

Our barn has an aggressive gelding now. He is a lovely horse to ride and knows his job, but on the ground he can’t be trusted. He is handled only by those experienced with him, and whenever he is tacked up by someone unfamiliar with his quirks, he wears a muzzle.

If you are an experienced, confident horsewoman, you can probably learn to handle this horse, but you can never let your guard down, and you can’t be around 24-7 to make sure he doesn’t hurt other people who must deal with him. Does this sound like fun to you? Is this the relationship you want to have with your horse? If he goes back to New Vocations, he will go back to people who know him and who can handle him. You, meanwhile, can find a horse you will enjoy. Please consider it.

[Casey09]

I would send him back. It sounds like he will need serious physical discipline to learn appropriate behavior around people, and you may never be able to let your guard down around him. That isn’t likely to be as much fun as many other horses would be.
This is just a personal opinion, but it isn’t very fun to correct horses for behavior like this because it generally requires hitting them, yelling, constant vigilance, and they can seriously hurt you. All horses require that occasionally, but I wouldn’t want to take it on. If you do and you want to put the time in, then find a professional to help. However, I’d find an easier horse that is more fun and less constant management.

[Appsolute]

I agree with some others here…

I have spent many many years in full training - have restated OTTBs, started my own youngster from scratch, spent a few years riding / retraining auction pulls…

And from the New Vocations description - this isn’t a horse I would want to take on with 30 years of experience under my belt. But I like the type of horses that LIKES people - not the crotchety, snarling, wall chomping beasts…

Life is too short - I rather have a horse that is less complicated, a horse I don’t have to worry about chomping me if I give them an inch - and horse that I can enjoy a Sunday afternoon grooming… I rather own a horse that will enjoy my company, as much as I enjoy theirs - not a horse that has to be trained and punished in order to tolerate my presents.

[FineAlready]

I agree with others that this does not sound like an appropriate horse for you. I have a horse that is a bit like what this guy sounds like. It’s practically a full time job to manage him.

I have to handle him a LOT to make sure his manners stay in line for others on the pretty limited occasions other people have to deal with him (basically, I do everything except for bring him in from turnout and clean his stall…he’s usually not in when his stall is cleaned).

In my case, this is not my first horse, not my first Thoroughbred, and not my first “tough” horse. I’m not afraid of him, and I feel comfortable managing him mostly because I feel that I can “read” his behavior well. I’ve had him 7 years so far.

He would be WILDLY inappropriate for a first time horse owner, especially one without really consistent training help. I don’t really even like having other people/horses AROUND him when I have him in the aisle. If others are around, need to pass by him, etc., I have to stand right with him, or will sometimes just put him in a stall so that others can go about their business without risk. Whenever non-horse people are like, “We’d love to come see your horse someday!” I always think, “OMG, no you wouldn’t!” LOL. It would be like bringing someone to visit my pet velociraptor.

Really, I think you should send this horse back. He just doesn’t sound appropriate at all, and I think you will be disappointed in the end. I am actually really disappointed that New Vocations adopted him out to you, considering that it sounds like they know exactly what he is about.

[King_s_Ransom]

I have an OTTB who can be a lovebug and a pocket pony – but I also believe in track manners as he can get nasty when he’s not happy. He has not bitten anyone here, but he got in a snit about a year ago and I was so surprised and knew immediately I was in over my head with him. Without going into long detail, there had been a lot of changes and chaos at the farm and he was acting out.

I called my trainer and she came out and did, I swear, ONE 45-minute session with him. She was just taking control over the way he could exit his stall. Took him 45 minutes to realize she meant business and he was going nowhere (and I mean not one step out of that stall) unless he was a complete gentleman. She had the nerves of steel to stand up to all 16.2 hh of him that I did not, and the instinct / experience to block him before he could do anything bad.

That was all it took. He resumed being his lovebug self and I have not had any more trouble with him. He does not like change and if chaos ensues, he will take over. But he’s smart and I don’t think it’s his “nature” to be difficult or cranky. But I do think he had gotten away with that behavior before and was in complete shock when I pulled out the big guns (trainer) to put him back in his place.

I have had him for six years, he also was a rescue. He’s a good guy and a fun ride and everyone’s favorite. But when he got nasty, he was really nasty!

[BeeHoney]

Send the horse back. I have both racehorses and show horses. There are many decently behaved OTTBs that have plenty of potential to go on and be nice riding horses in a variety of disciplines.

However, TBs are bred for a single purpose and many (most?) TB breeders don’t consider temperament at all when making their breeding decisions. In fact, some TB owners are often proud of how “spirited” or difficult their horses are. There are some TBs out there that are completely unsuited to be owned/handled by average horse owners EVER. Maybe they were mishandled somehow (that’s what people always like to speculate), but more than likely they are the offspring of one or two mentally unstable parents and possibly gelded late on top of it.

I sift through a number off OTTBs and periodically take on in for retraining. Biting, kicking, spookiness, and nervousness are complete deal breakers. There are enough nice OTTBs out there that it makes no sense to waste your time dealing with a horse that is going to hurt you.

Yes, some horses that bite or kick can be reformed, but the fact that 1) this horse’s listing confirmed some behavior problems while being professionally handled up front and 2) you are asking on the internet what to do about the biting confirm to me that this is not a good situation. I know you don’t want to “give up” on this horse, but you also are smart enough to know that something is really wrong with the situation.

FWIW there is no magic solution to curing biting. Discipline might work for certain horses, but just as many horses will take it as an invitation to escalate the situation either in playfulness or animosity. I have also seen horses disciplined for biting become fearful and spooky but at the same time continue to bite.

[BeeHoney]

[QUOTE=FineAlready;8212750]
I am actually really disappointed that New Vocations adopted him out to you, considering that it sounds like they know exactly what he is about.[/QUOTE]

I don’t work with New Vocations and I’m not aiming this comment specifically at them, but I have seen well intentioned people and TB rehoming organizations more than once re home TBs with really questionable behavior issues (and in one case seriously NQR) to new owners that were in over their heads.

[HPFarmette]

There are some animals that have mental illness that won’t change. Not worth the danger and heartbreak to struggle with. Maybe this is just a poor early (lack of) training situation…maybe not.

[MoonWitch]

[QUOTE=BeeHoney;8212785]
FWIW there is no magic solution to curing biting. Discipline might work for certain horses, but just as many horses will take it as an invitation to escalate the situation either in playfulness or animosity. I have also seen horses disciplined for biting become fearful and spooky but at the same time continue to bite.[/QUOTE]

I have to agree…there are some horses that will actually get worse with agression or harsh discipline. I know - I have one. You have to know what you’re doing in dealing with agression issues and know what will work with one horse may not with another.

[DancingArabian]

[QUOTE=LetsGetThis948;8212263]
I recently adopted an OTTB and I knew he’d be a project but I wasn’t ready for this. He’s bitten two people pretty badly (one was unprovoked - she was just trying to back him up which we’ve been working on and he’s been doing great with, wasn’t there for the other) and I don’t really know what to do. I’m starting work with a trainer tomorrow but I’m really afraid he’s going to hurt someone else. I’ve had a couple people hint heavily that I should return him but I’m nowhere near ready to give up on him. Can this behavior be eliminated? I’m completely heartbroken. Any suggestions?[/QUOTE]

Why would you want to keep a horse that you’re always going to need supervision with? You’ll have to have someone on standby at all times ready to swoop in, help you and possibly handle the horse.

You can find another horse to pin your hopes and dreams on. I would stay away from project horses personally.

[jetsmom]

the barn where I used to be had one like this. Would pin ears and charge you if you entered her stall. Thirty days of ulcer meds, and turnout and being left alone (minimal handling) turned her into a pleasant horse. She was sore, pissed off and tired of being messed with. The ulcers would flare up when she was ridden/worked, so she associated people with doing things that hurt her.
It may not hurt to try that, if you can (and NV will take him back after that time, if he is still that way). If you can’t, then either have a trainer work with him, or send him back.

[caffeinated]

[QUOTE=BeeHoney;8212806]
I don’t work with New Vocations and I’m not aiming this comment specifically at them, but I have seen well intentioned people and TB rehoming organizations more than once re home TBs with really questionable behavior issues (and in one case seriously NQR) to new owners that were in over their heads.[/QUOTE]

There are also situations where everything looks good on paper, but for whatever reason the new enviornment, owner, and horse just don’t work together well and you end up with a bad situation. It can also be, even after building a long term relationship with a horse and thinking you know him well, he’s still only been handled by a few really talented people with similar skills and philosophies, so it’s not predictable how he might react to a different program or riding style.

Either way, for OP, I think from the behavior described this is fixable with a trainer’s attention and very consistent handling across the board, but this is a horse you won’t be able to relax the rules/handling on for a long time, if ever. There may be a nice cuddlebug in there with consistency and discipline. But the word choice of “aggressive” is leading me to be more cautious than that. It’s one thing to “need manners help” and another to say “agrgessive,” and I think the word choice is telling.

[caffeinated]

[QUOTE=jetsmom;8212871]
the barn where I used to be had one like this. Would pin ears and charge you if you entered her stall. Thirty days of ulcer meds, and turnout and being left alone (minimal handling) turned her into a pleasant horse. She was sore, pissed off and tired of being messed with. The ulcers would flare up when she was ridden/worked, so she associated people with doing things that hurt her. .[/QUOTE]

Along these lines, I’ve seen horses with Lyme get downright nasty (along with bad teeth and joint soreness)

[Anne_FS]

I can’t see the photos of him on the NV listing, but a Google search came up with two images from Pinterest (probably more but I’m not a member of Pinterest and it won’t let me see more without signing in). In the first photo he looks absolutely gorgeous and in the second photo he’s obviously striking out. In each photo he’s alone in an indoor with no people near him.

[AppendixQHLover]

There are just some horses that don’t mesh with the new owner. My tb can be mouthy but his ears are NEVER pinned and he doesn’t go after me. When he does it and you catch it…he backs up and knows he is in the wrong. He does it now when he is bored he just likes things in his mouth - has a big salt lick in stall, and plays with his brushes. Also plays with his old lead ropes.

[Carolinadreamin]

I realize how hard this is, but try and remove (for just a second!) the emotion out of your situation. If this was happening to a fellow rider or friend, what would you advise them to do? Sometimes it is in the best interests of both the owner as well as the horse for both to move on to different situations. It is not a failure. In fact it is often a plus that the owner recognized that he/she was not the right home.

[Pipkin]

Yeah we’ve had a couple of snakey biters and it was pretty easy to fix. Whack on the shoulder if they threaten, never hit or threaten to hit their head or you end up with a headshy horse.

Of course it boils down to obedience, in which case lots and lots of groundwork with a good instructor. It’s really easy to fry thoroughbreds, to be honest if they’re really stressing it’s best to take the pressure off and return later when they are in a more open frame of mind. You say he was being backed up? I would probably want a vet to look at him, because difficulty/pain when reining back is a sign of KS.