He sounds like my horse when he had grade 3 ulcers! Ulcers gone, some of those traits remain 
But the hypersensitivity and grumpiness is much improved. Weirdly the grumpiness was never directed at me, but at other horses.
[QUOTE=mvp;8212554]
He sounds like a “professional ride”-- a horse that won’t be easy to manage or ride now, if ever. If you do have the option of giving him back to a safe, knowledgable group of people ilke New Vocations, I think you should do it. I would in your spot and I would not feel shame. It costs the same to feed and train the right horse as the wrong one.[/QUOTE]
The thing is, most professionals don’t like dealing with rank, nasty horses anymore than anybody else does. UNLESS the horse is so “OVER THE TOP” talented and the chances of that with this horse are somewhere between slim and none.
How do I put this…ummmm he is like a lighter ya ya that’s the analogy…in experienced hands can have a positive outcome(ummm dad light’s fire camping) but can turn dangerous in inexperienced hands. Pass him on to more experienced hands, pretty please.
[QUOTE=LetsGetThis948;8212263]
I recently adopted an OTTB and I knew he’d be a project but I wasn’t ready for this. He’s bitten two people pretty badly (one was unprovoked - she was just trying to back him up which we’ve been working on and he’s been doing great with, wasn’t there for the other) and I don’t really know what to do. I’m starting work with a trainer tomorrow but I’m really afraid he’s going to hurt someone else. I’ve had a couple people hint heavily that I should return him but I’m nowhere near ready to give up on him. Can this behavior be eliminated? I’m completely heartbroken. Any suggestions?[/QUOTE]
OP, given what you said and the language someone posted in the adoption ad, and not knowing anything more, this is my advice. Interestingly, I’m watching this very similar scenario unfold with people who adopted a OTTB who is, as it turns out, way over their heads.
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The horse should not have been adopted out, and not to anyone but a trainer or a home with $$$ to spend.
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Ulcers, “track manners”, whatever, this horse is right now “a dangerous horse” who is hurting people and is likely learning that he can scare the crap out of them by biting them. Biting people “pretty badly” is never an acceptable answer to a human’s request, especially something as benign as backing up. You can HOPE you can fix it but you have to be prepared if you can’t. Then what?
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Be prepared to spend alot of money. You should spend hundreds to get a vet out and do an in-depth physical evaluation, including scoping for ulcers. MAYBE the vet will find something that is treatable (i.e. ulcers). Maybe the vet will find something that is treatable with mega-money. Maybe the vet will find something that explains the bad behavior but isn’t treatable. Then what? You also have a horse in need of serious behavioral training and that doesn’t get fixed in 2 months. You are likely looking at full-time training with a professional who can get to the bottom of this horse’s issues, reassert human dominance and TEACH YOU how to assert dominance over this horse, how to read his body language better, and how to get your horse to respect you as “herd leader”. ALL handlers of this horse will have to have these skills. That’s a good 6 months of full training and it can all slide back downhill if you take the horse back and it learns it can intimidate you again.
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You have got to be prepared for the possibility of getting hurt. You have also got to accept that anyone handling him may get hurt and it’s your responsibility to inform everyone handling him that he’s a dangerous biter and may have other dangerous behaviours. That brings up the question: how “fun” can this horse possibly be? Why did you choose “this” horse?
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I understand you are heartbroken - I think most on this board are suckers for animals. I really suggest you not think of it as “giving up” on this horse but rather recognizing that you two are not a good match before someone else gets hurt. If you can’t spend the money AND time to vet and retrain this horse, it’s doing neither of you a service to keep him. You will be happier down the road with a more pleasant and manageable horse, and he will be happier in a different situation (and that can also be euthanasia- that add makes him sound like he’s miserable in his own skin).
Good luck!
Having just watched his videos, additional tidbits that come to mind… I have no idea of how much training this horse has had since then, or how good or a rider you are, etc. Take this with a grain a salt!!
The horse does not look like he wants to use his back at any gait above the walk (and he’s been off the track for 3 years now). Of course, the rider isn’t asking the horse but it makes me wonder is a) she doesn’t know how to ask or b) she knows she can’t get it. He’s very stiff and inflexible and he looks unhappy in all trot to canter to trot transitions. Almost like he’s protecting himself (again, the rider isn’t helping much). When he relaxes he has a nice walk but he’s not relaxed very much. Could he have an old injury to his back?
The horse looks hypervigilant and is focused on many things other than the rider. Of course, she’s not asking for his attention much. The trail riding video cuts away when he slams on the breaks, when he spooks, etc. He definitely looks like a sensitive ride who needs a very confident and knowledgeable rider. he looks like the kind of horse who will never be “a packer”- he looks like he’s thinking too much.
[QUOTE=BeeHoney;8212806]
I don’t work with New Vocations and I’m not aiming this comment specifically at them, but I have seen well intentioned people and TB rehoming organizations more than once re home TBs with really questionable behavior issues (and in one case seriously NQR) to new owners that were in over their heads.[/QUOTE]
And this is how TBs get an undeserved bad reputation.
[QUOTE=red mares;8212444]
Does it really matter? There is never an excuse for biting “pretty badly”.[/QUOTE]
No. I was hoping to get the OP to discuss more and be able to point out that he may well have given the warning she didn’t see, and two, her behavior and reactions afterwards were not appropriate if she didn’t have a CTJ meeting. Her actions/reactions would dictate slightly how capable I think she is of changing this behavior.
I believe that horses from NV are returnable. Has anyone mentioned this?
Wait, did someone say OP is first time horse owner? If so, she needs to send the horse back now. Unless you are very experienced with horses, and especially with OTTBs, you will only end up hurt. And the horse will end up dead because you cannot handle him and therefore he will only get worse.
I am sorry that you are going through this. If you have the option of sending him back to NV that might be something to consider. A biter can cause so much damage. Both physically and to your confidence. Do you want a horse that you always have to be on high alert around? There is not much enjoyment in that. You should have a wonderful first horse that you can relax and have fun with.
Not to mention huge lawsuits if he hurts somebody. Maybe it’s time to consider adding to your insurance.
That’s a shame, OP - I really liked him. Another poster mentioned “Track manners” and you know it is quite true… carry a whip around him at all times and please smack him if he so much as menaces you!
I’d send him back… he sounds like he is not the right horse for you or your situation, and that is okay! Been there, got the tee-shirt - not every horse is every person’s cup of tea, and vice versa.
Tongue in cheek, I’ll take him off of your hands :lol:
[QUOTE=Anne FS;8212471]
OP, I’m so sorry you’re going through this.
For the rest of us, here’s how we learn what ads really mean. Descriptors of this horse on New Vocations:
“Crotchety old man” (even though he’s not old)
“Doesn’t care for the carousing” of the other horses (so what is it he does when they “carouse”?)
Have to turn him out with only 1 or 2 others (or else???)
You can’t touch him: he’s perfect for photo shoots (sure, nobody’s touching him)
He “could really do without grooming and tacking.” So he’s most definitely a noli me tangere personality. Not fun for the amateur.
“Every touch is magnified.” Yikes.
“Tough shell”
“Still pretty tight” Could read this two ways.
Sired by “one of the hottest sires in racing currently.” I’m thinking they didn’t mean by hottest the most popular. “Certainly destined…like his sire.” LOL, I’m thinking whoever wrote this can make a living writing descriptions of sketchy houses for sale. It’s an honest description there for all to read. If you really read.
Good luck, OP. Track manners can be overcome; you’re doing the right thing by involving a trainer.[/QUOTE]
To be fair, his description really sounds like most TBs post track… I have never had an OTTB that came off the track lovey-dovey, enjoying grooming, or enjoying play. All of them have been very professional, very business-like - it was not until they realized they were no longer racing did they open up… Every OTTB I have gotten has been crotchety, could do without grooming/tacking, sensitive, and not very good in group turnout until they learned the ropes.
I don’t see red flags so much as I see a horse that is honestly represented as what I call a “reluctant professional”.
Your first horse should be fun and not one that is a problem before you even get started!
I appreciate not wanting to give up but the fact you are asking a bunch of strangers on the Internet for help tells me you don’t have the skill set necessary to deal with this particular horse. My advice is, "Send him back from whence he came and tell them why he’s coming back (biting)!"–perhaps they can break him of that… Maybe he didn’t do that there–maybe he just doesn’t like it at his new home, but it cannot continue or the problem will be too ingrained to correct…
If you must have a Thoroughbred check with CANTER to see if they have a CANTER owned horse that has been restarted that has better manners! Or the Retired Racehorse Project–there are many other groups out there who restart OTTBs, but those are the only ones I can think of off the top of my head…
There are plenty of good natured TB’s out there for you to pick from–this horse is not one of them! Swallow your pride-if you really love this horse let him go to someone who knows how to deal with him…
my own horse, who I love dearly, is a biter.
put a chain over his nose, carry a crop, use liberally. he’ll get the message.
also scope or treat for ulcers.
I can see why the OP wanted this horse – the still photos are very lovely! I’m not a huge fan of how he moves in the video. As someone else posted, he looks very tight and body sore. For a horse that’s been off the track for several years, this may indicate pain.
I’ve restarted/fostered many OTTBs and several of my friends have as well. We had ONE aggressive horse and he was a royal PIA. He would lunge at you, rear and strike in the pasture and bite you when he thought he could get away with it. I’ve never had problems like that with any of the others. He belonged to a friend and she gave him away to a pro. He could not be trusted.
OP, I think you should contact New Vocations and ask specifically about the behavior to find out if he did it while he was there. Talk to the people who handled him/rode him. Do they have any tips? Did he get more turnout before? What did they feed him?
Did you get a PPE on him? If not, it would be a good idea to have a vet go over him top to bottom. Ulcers could cause the behavior or he may just be very dominant and seeing how far he can push the boundries
In a boarding situation, you need a horse that the staff can handle. If he’s difficult or people are afraid of him, you are going to end up with unhappy workers and your horse will learn to misbehave.
I don’t know how long you’ve had the horse but the change in handling/riding/turnout may be enough to make him testy. I would see what your trainer says but don’t feel like you should keep him if you’re not having fun. Better to get a horse that you like better and feel comfortable with.
I know someone else got chastised for saying this earlier, but I agree:
I have seen well intentioned people and TB rehoming organizations more than once re home TBs with really questionable behavior issues (and in one case seriously NQR) to new owners that were in over their heads.
My current OTTB is a horse that I took as a foster for CANTER. He had been returned because he was not a good match for the lady who adopted him. He is very high energy, anxious, and sensitive (hates to be groomed!). They did not do well together. I love him and he’s a good fit for me. So if this horse doesn’t work for you, find one who does.
Track manners are bullspit. I never had a single horse that a toddler couldn’t have petted in over 20 years on the track. The horse is likely in pain and has been allowed/forced to express his discomfort with his teeth. There are some horses that just aren’t wired right, those horses need to be adopted by God but I have no idea if that is the case with this horse. Bottom line, this is supposed to be fun.
Who knows is background or who had him or how he was treated. He’s probably got ulcers, or had them and not forgotten his behaviours…treatment for this is much more than he is worth. He is defending himself the only way he knows how.
Start with good raw material and enjoy every minute of the progress, that will come quicker and quicker, with a suitable type.
I had one of these, sent him back. After a number of incidents, he finally hurt my barn owner pretty badly when biting her head at feeding time. I don’t know what his problem was (could have been ulcers, he wasn’t socialized, etc. etc.), but it didn’t matter, as he was a danger to the barn management.
My other OTTBs have been really good, and none of these issues, so it certainly isn’t typical. I am sure you could find a good citizen OTTB to love just as much – they need homes, too.
I worked with show horses as a teen, standardbreds off the track shown as road horses, and some of them were scary, they would bite and attack in the stall. Life’s too short to own a horse like that.
[QUOTE=betonbill;8214984]
Not to mention huge lawsuits if he hurts somebody. Maybe it’s time to consider adding to your insurance.[/QUOTE]
That’s absolutely true, owners are liable for the actions of their animals. If this horse injures someone at your barn you will be responsible. It’s even worse because at this point he has proven that he is dangerous. And aside from the liability, even if you are comfortable putting yourself at risk, are you comfortable risking other people’s safety?
Horses are by nature typically very gentle animals despite their large size. I think it’s sometimes difficult to process when a horse comes along that is aggressive or dangerous to handle. People make excuses–“he was abused” or “he is in pain.” Those statements might be true, but ultimately when you are dealing with a 1200 lb. horse–as Kwill said–it doesn’t really matter. Many horses endure poor handling and pain without attacking people.
