Aggressive puppy...any suggestions? Update #45 & #162

My mother delt with this very thing several years with a Potcake Dog she adopted from the Turk’s And Caicos SPCA. He was a dog of unknown breeding, and he and his siblings were rescued from behind a dumpster. He came home ill with vomitting and diarehea, and spent almost a week in the vet hospital, being tested for pretty much everything. He had an ear infection, and bounced back from the initial illness rather quickly.

We had an older Golden Retriever at the time that wasn’t afraid to put Mojito in his place when his puppy play got too rough. As a puppy he never displayed any outward aggression, but was standoffish with strangers. He was neutered at six months. After he turned one, the aggression began. He snapped at my step-grandma when she was handing my mom something, but at the time we just chalked it up to him reacting to her quick, nervous movements. Some time later he bit an older man who came onto the property, which required stitches.

He ended up biting two other people over the years, but never displayed any aggression to the family. He was smart as hell, but anti social, and would rather be on his own then with the family. If someone he didn’t know came over, he would be locked in a room upstairs. He just couldn’t be trusted, and my mom didn’t want for him to live in a muzzle. He was good with other dogs, he just played rough.

He loved his family, but dealing with his aggression and protectivness was very stressful. He ended up being euthinized at 5.

I had a friend with an Australian Shepherd who bit 7 people. I sought advice from a dog trainer, a true advocate for dogs, whom I trusted to give us “the real deal”. He told us the dog was a “flash biter” and made it sound almost like an epileptic type condition, and especially dangerous because the dog gives no warning, just flash bites. He advised euth and my friend did. I went to pick up the dog’s body from the vet and take it for cremation to help my sad friend. Vet stated “that was a lawsuit waiting to happen.”

If you choose a breed that is already known to be aloof, not great with strangers and requiring more than the ordinary for socializing- I think you might expect there will be some on the fringes who are moreso.

I would not choose a sharpei or a chow etc myself because they dont appeal to me for different reasons but also dont think it is surprising that there might be one like this-as an extreme of the breed characteristic.

This dog might be Ok with a knowledgeable adult who controls all interactions with other people. That is a commitment and possibly a liability risk.

I wish your SIL the best but I think the responsible thing to do is to euthanize this dog. He is now putting her visitors/family/pets at risk. All it takes is one mistake and he’ll be loose and able to bite when the trigger happens. The breeder is trying to be the voice of reason here, and she is invested in this dog too. I really wish you’d return the puppy to her and let her give you another one. I am sure there are plenty of dogs without a bite history for your SIL to adopt.

Add me to the list of people who think your SIL isn’t very bright. I also don’t see the logic of even entertaining her whim.

Give the pup back to the breeder and move on.

:no: Ugh.

[QUOTE=HPFarmette;8566999]
I had a friend with an Australian Shepherd who bit 7 people. I sought advice from a dog trainer, a true advocate for dogs, whom I trusted to give us “the real deal”. He told us the dog was a “flash biter” and made it sound almost like an epileptic type condition, and especially dangerous because the dog gives no warning, just flash bites. He advised euth and my friend did. I went to pick up the dog’s body from the vet and take it for cremation to help my sad friend. Vet stated “that was a lawsuit waiting to happen.”[/QUOTE]

But that is not normal for that breed.

I’ve had 4 in my life-all sweet. My mothers was sharp as a puppy when she got her- and cranky- but she was born in a barn and kept in a stall like livestock- not socialized before we got her.- she was also a afraid of men- for whatever reason

anyway- she ended up being a fantastic dog after some rough times- and my mothers constant companion for 14 years after my dad died.(and never bit anyone)

Just saying in my experience aussies are great dogs- so there can be rogues in any breed I guess- but if you start with a breed that is already known to be difficult to socialize and suspicious of strangers- as in sharpei- might be more likely to have a difficult one

Meaty Ogre, what a tough situation, and I can understand why your sister might want to give him just one more chance…but do your kids go over to her house? Spend any time there? Do you want your daughter around this dog again? How will you feel if next time he REALLY takes a chunk out of someone?

Sometimes you do everything right and it just doesn’t work out. Best thing all the way around is to return the dog to the breeder, or euthanize him yourself. :frowning:

The breeder knows best. It’s a dog from her kennel and a liability. I’ve worked as a shelter behaviorist and we had to euth puppies. It was hard, very hard, but when a puppy is showing it’s core behavior, pay attention. You are seeing the dog. Your SIL is asking for trouble. No matter how careful she plans to be with keeping the dog put up away from strangers mistakes happen, dogs get loose. This dog is a loose cannon and a law suit waiting to happen. He is only going to get bigger and more powerful.

You did all the right things by socializing and working with him. There is a wire crossed somewhere and you have a responsible breeder wanting to do the right thing for this dog. Let her.

I’m so saddened to hear your latest update. I’m glad your daughter is ok. But I agree with everyone else. You guys are only giving him another chance to hurt someone.

I’m sure the idea of giving the dog back to the breeder to PTS is upsetting. I think anyone in your shoes would feel the same way. But I can promise you it will be nothing like the guilt and regret you will feel when this dog inevitably really hurts someone.

This dog’s story is not going to end well. Better it be now than later.

OP I dunno that euth is the best option in this case.

Honestly, you haven’t given enough information to make that call.

What age is the puppy and when was it separated from the Mum?

We currently have a Dobbie puppy, got him at 6 weeks and he’s now 8 weeks.

You have to be very firm in setting boundaries and it’ll stop that sort of behaviors in it’s tracks.

For example, at 8 weeks older puppy has been trained to do the following:

When we open the door to take him outside he sits until he’s told to go.
When we feed we put his food down and he sits until he’s told to eat.
He got a little too rough an nippy ONCE and DH stomped his foot hard on the tile and yelled at him with the voice an Army Drill sergeant.

We’ve watched him play with our GSD and they play very rough including growling followed by a bite. However if you watch their body language you can tell the difference between an aggressive approach and an invite to play rough. The incident you described with your daughter sounded a lot like an invitation to play rough and you can teach the puppy very quickly that isn’t acceptable, much in the someway my GSD taught our puppy very quickly that there’s a limit and a line that he shouldn’t cross.

Personally, based on how I’m reading your post, I think both you (or your SIL) and the dog need a good trainer to work with.

I can honestly say I’ve yet to find a young dog that whose behavior couldn’t be moulded.

And very frankly no matter how good and reputable the breeder may be, I would not take their opinion over that of a skilled dog trainer.

OP please ready this but in particular the part about faulty learning

http://www.problempets.co.uk/dog-aggression/

Having had big dogs and having a DH who grew up training and using working dogs I firmly believe that dog biting, in a lot of instances, is very much misunderstood.

Glad you took the big step of getting him out of your home. Some dogs “just aitn right” for lack of a better word. I hope your SIL has success with him, but not entirely confident that’s a good long term solution. Im sure your kids are a little sad, and that you soon have a puppy you can trust underfoot.

I really do not understand, with all the NICE dogs in the world that need homes, why does anyone want to take a chance with an animal that has shown aggression unprovoked at such a young age. It is not cruel, it is smart to put this animal to sleep. It will only end in more heartache. The dog has serious problems and can never be trusted.

[QUOTE=Sannois;8567952]
I really do not understand, with all the NICE dogs in the world that need homes, why does anyone want to take a chance with an animal that has shown aggression unprovoked at such a young age. It is not cruel, it is smart to put this animal to sleep. It will only end in more heartache. The dog has serious problems and can never be trusted.[/QUOTE]

I adopted a “nice” dog from the shelter. She was a 4 month old pit mix puppy. She came in skinny, tied to a 20ft chain. Not a nice life, but we bonded quickly (I worked at the shelter) and she passed all her behavior tests with flying colors. 2 months into being in my home, she started attacking my other dog. At first I thought it was over food, but soon she wouldn’t allow my dog to enter the room without a serious fight. She became increasingly aggressive towards strangers, other animals, and objects that she found threatening. Would she ever hurt me? No. Her safe place was with me. I tried for MONTHS to find rescue for her, but ultimately she was viewed as a liability thanks to her breed and her disposition. I am 100% confident she would’ve been great as a single dog with a single male/female or a couple with no kids. She was smart as a whip. But well bred dogs and “nice” shelter dogs can always have underlying behavioral issues.

My point is, OP, you’re putting off the inevitable. I completely understand it because I tried to do it too. after 4 months at the shelter and rescues across the country denying us, I held her while she was euthanized, took her home and had her cremated. Knowing the outcome, I would’ve done it sooner, on our terms, rather than because her time was up.

I still maintain this dog shouldn’t be written off until the root cause of the issue (assuming it is an issue) has been established and dealt with.

Probably 90% of so called dog trainers won’t have a clue what to do.

I know there are FB pages out there comprised of retired military dog handlers. If you have someone like that in your area they could give a fair assessment of the dog and help with training or perhaps rehoming to a suitable home.

Most dog ‘issues’ are not issues. People just don’t understand the underlying cause of the behaviour and let’s face it we humans ‘fear’ what we don’t understand.

Probably should post a spin off but honest question here and not intended for the OP because it sounds like this dog may be truly off, why do people who have children or want children soon buy difficult dog breeds?

Managing a dog with issues is hard enough when there are only adults involved in the situation.

It is perfectly logical that risk assessment is different when children are involved. I understand that. What I don’t understand is why people with small children who are getting a new dog aren’t all out there getting the best bred best trained temperament tested mellow breed they can afford. Even then it can go wrong, but it would seem to be the smart thing to do to set the odds in your favor and in the dog’s favor.

I would take this a step further and ask why we continue to breed these “aloof” and “protective” (which I think are euphemisms for “unable to be properly socialized”) breeds and praise it as a breed standard.

[QUOTE=4THEHORSES;8568172]
I still maintain this dog shouldn’t be written off until the root cause of the issue (assuming it is an issue) has been established and dealt with.

Probably 90% of so called dog trainers won’t have a clue what to do.

I know there are FB pages out there comprised of retired military dog handlers. If you have someone like that in your area they could give a fair assessment of the dog and help with training or perhaps rehoming to a suitable home.

Most dog ‘issues’ are not issues. People just don’t understand the underlying cause of the behaviour and let’s face it we humans ‘fear’ what we don’t understand.[/QUOTE]

With the glut of perfectly nice, stable, sane dogs out there in desperate need of homes, why do people continue to press to go to such extremes to work with a dog that has already proven to be aggressive and unstable?

I just don’t get it. It’s not like there is a shortage of nice dogs in the world.

[QUOTE=Sswor;8568268]
With the glut of perfectly nice, stable, sane dogs out there in desperate need of homes, why do people continue to press to go to such extremes to work with a dog that has already proven to be aggressive and unstable?

I just don’t get it. It’s not like there is a shortage of nice dogs in the world.[/QUOTE]

I don’t see where this dog has proven aggressive or unstable. Personally it sounds like the behaviour may be muscinstrued, to the detriment of he dog.