[QUOTE=vxf111;8572816]
In general training big cats includes all kinds of awful things like declawing them, removing their teeth, drugging them, withholding food and using that to train, physical punishment— nothing anyone would ever condone for dog training.[/QUOTE]
Only asked out of curiosity. Had nothing to do with dog training.
[QUOTE=red mares;8572123]
We might agree here. It was stupid to have an aggressive dog in a kennel while kids played nearby. The owners should have skipped the kennel and had it put down. Unfortunately, some people think more of their dog than they do of their kids.[/QUOTE]
Yes they are stupid owners. They knew that dog was aggressive and kept him alive because he was their stud dog. Even though they had euthanized four dogs already due to attacking people, they kept him and blamed my daughter for the attack. Both of my kids were bit by dogs from the same household and to make it even worse, they were breeding these dogs.
As for muzzling until training, not all dogs can be reformed. Some are just not right in the head and no miracle can cure them of that.
exactly
if this dog has a liver shunt, no amount of training is going to fix it
surgery might, though
Why would you own a dog you had to muzzle whenever you had company over or you took the dog out of the house?
[QUOTE=enjoytheride;8572957]
Why would you own a dog you had to muzzle whenever you had company over or you took the dog out of the house?[/QUOTE]
In my case it’s not because the dog is aggressive or anti-social. I muzzle her because any dog, if put in the wrong situation, had the potential to bite. I use it more for her protection than anything else.
And it doesn’t bother her. I hold it out, she sticks her nose it, I fasten the straps and she can go about her fun without us having to worry about someone doing something stupid.
Same principle applies with the horses. When asked if they kick or bite I always tell people that any horse could kick or bite if it feel threatened or is taken by surprise. To my knowledge none of mine ever have kicked or bitten a human but it’s not beyond the realm of possibility that they could.
[QUOTE=4THEHORSES;8573014]
In my case it’s not because the dog is aggressive or anti-social. I muzzle her because any dog, if put in the wrong situation, had the potential to bite. I use it more for her protection than anything else.
And it doesn’t bother her. I hold it out, she sticks her nose it, I fasten the straps and she can go about her fun without us having to worry about someone doing something stupid.
Same principle applies with the horses. When asked if they kick or bite I always tell people that any horse could kick or bite if it feel threatened or is taken by surprise. To my knowledge none of mine ever have kicked or bitten a human but it’s not beyond the realm of possibility that they could.[/QUOTE]
Wow talk about sending out mixed messages. You’re dog isn’t aggressive but are treating her like one so when people see her they are automatically come over with fear thinking your muzzled dog will bite. Animals react to fear and how they respond isn’t always good, so why would you want to take a risk in that manner just because an animal always has that instinct to possibly bite? Why have a dog at all?
I wouldn’t hobble a horse every time someone is around just because a horse “could” kick
[QUOTE=4THEHORSES;8573014]
In my case it’s not because the dog is aggressive or anti-social. I muzzle her because any dog, if put in the wrong situation, had the potential to bite. I use it more for her protection than anything else.
And it doesn’t bother her. I hold it out, she sticks her nose it, I fasten the straps and she can go about her fun without us having to worry about someone doing something stupid.
Same principle applies with the horses. When asked if they kick or bite I always tell people that any horse could kick or bite if it feel threatened or is taken by surprise. To my knowledge none of mine ever have kicked or bitten a human but it’s not beyond the realm of possibility that they could.[/QUOTE]
So your dog has never been aggressive, bitten anyone, had any bite training but you muzzle her every single time people come over or she goes out? That seems very extreme to me. Do you hobble and muzzle every horse you own just in case? Even if they have never shown a tendency to perform that behavior? Would you muzzle any dog you owned?
[QUOTE=enjoytheride;8573111]
So your dog has never been aggressive, bitten anyone, had any bite training but you muzzle her every single time people come over or she goes out? That seems very extreme to me. Do you hobble and muzzle every horse you own just in case? Even if they have never shown a tendency to perform that behavior? Would you muzzle any dog you owned?[/QUOTE]
Actually, I don’t think a muzzle in public is extreme. Personally, I am all for it for more dogs out in public TBH. Met plenty of dogs (and owners too) who could have benefited from one. Lots of dogs serve or train in muzzles – including K9 units.
Not really germane to the topic, but just my two cents - don’t think a muzzle is a huge big deal.
[QUOTE=spotted draft x filly;8573073]
Wow talk about sending out mixed messages. You’re dog isn’t aggressive but are treating her like one so when people see her they are automatically come over with fear thinking your muzzled dog will bite. Animals react to fear and how they respond isn’t always good, so why would you want to take a risk in that manner just because an animal always has that instinct to possibly bite? Why have a dog at all?[/QUOTE]
Actually it sends out exactly the right message, which is leave the dog alone.
If someone sees a muzzled dog, perceives it as aggressive and approaches the dog regardless then they’re stupid and exactly the reason why she’s muzzled in the first place. To protect her against idiots.
[QUOTE=beowulf;8573122]
Actually, I don’t think a muzzle in public is extreme. Personally, I am all for it for more dogs out in public TBH. Met plenty of dogs (and owners too) who could have benefited from one. Lots of dogs serve or train in muzzles – including K9 units.
Not really germane to the topic, but just my two cents - don’t think a muzzle is a huge big deal.[/QUOTE]
Thanks you!
My thoughts exactly. It’s not a big deal for the dog and takes a few seconds to out on so why not err on side side of caution and use one.
It isn’t causing anyone and harm and gives my dog extra protection.
I believe that’s called responsible dog ownership.
[QUOTE=enjoytheride;8573111]
So your dog has never been aggressive, bitten anyone, had any bite training but you muzzle her every single time people come over or she goes out? That seems very extreme to me. Do you hobble and muzzle every horse you own just in case? Even if they have never shown a tendency to perform that behavior? Would you muzzle any dog you owned?[/QUOTE]
Yes, I will muzzle any dog I own because we lean toward owning the large, protective breeds. Using a muzzle is prudent.
[QUOTE=spotted draft x filly;8573073]
Wow talk about sending out mixed messages. You’re dog isn’t aggressive but are treating her like one so when people see her they are automatically come over with fear thinking your muzzled dog will bite. Animals react to fear and how they respond isn’t always good, so why would you want to take a risk in that manner just because an animal always has that instinct to possibly bite? Why have a dog at all?[/QUOTE]
Do you have dogs? I don’t think a muzzle is a mixed message. It sends a very clear message, one that cannot be misconstrued in any way. If I had a high profile dog breed that I frequented public places with, I would certainly consider muzzling. I did it a few times with my GSD when he was a yearling and I wanted to take him to a very busy environment that I knew he was ready for, but did not want to take chances as there would be other dogs, children, and people. Since he was a GSD, and a very friendly and gorgeous one at that, people used to approach me all the time with their dogs DESPITE me telling them politely that I was training my dog and did not want another dog all over him.
I worked at a dog kennel at the time and lamented this to one of the schutzhund trainers who was my boss – she suggested a muzzle and let me borrow one from her kennel. He was very dog-friendly, but it annoyed me no end to see rude dogs jump all over him. Time and time again I had people come over “oh, Fido is friendly!!” and Fido was decidedly not friendly – would stalk over to my dog hauling on the leash, hackles raised, head and tail upright, stiff legged and very assertive body language. This kind of language is aggressive, not friendly - and while my dog was not aggressive, if another dog attacked him I cannot say he would not fight back. Luckily my GSD was very dog tolerant, but I was not. Putting a muzzle on him sent off a very clear message that he was not to be approached - and I never had another person approach him, not even once, during the time he wore the muzzle. Again, I have to stress – high profile breeds such as GSDs, malinois, even pitbulls - they have enough of a social stigma working against them that even in an accident that was no way their fault (say, another dog attacking them) they would likely still be held culpable by breed bias alone.
This protected him in two ways: it kept people (more importantly, their dogs) away from him and in case of an accident where a dog was to slip their leash and attack him, he would be in no way culpable simply because of his breed.
I want to note that he lived 8 wonderful years with me and was never dog aggressive. He never bit anyone either. But I still used the muzzle that day because of ignorant owners who did not have dogs that were as trained or tolerant as mine.
[QUOTE=4THEHORSES;8573180]
Actually it sends out exactly the right message, which is leave the dog alone.
If someone sees a muzzled dog, perceives it as aggressive and approaches the dog regardless then they’re stupid and exactly the reason why she’s muzzled in the first place. To protect her against idiots.[/QUOTE]
Yes approaching a muzzled dog is stupid but I didn’t say that. When you enter her house and see a muzzled dog laying there, you’re going to be apprehensive even if you don’t ever plan on approaching or touching the dog. Dogs can sense that and it sends a message to the dog that it’s feared which can turn into bigger problems that a muzzle will not solve.
You guys just don’t get it and it’s setting up the dog to fail.
[QUOTE=beowulf;8573200]
Do you have dogs? I don’t think a muzzle is a mixed message. It sends a very clear message, one that cannot be misconstrued in any way. If I had a high profile dog breed that I frequented public places with, I would certainly consider muzzling. I did it a few times with my GSD when he was a yearling and I wanted to take him to a very busy environment that I knew he was ready for, but did not want to take chances as there would be other dogs, children, and people. Since he was a GSD, and a very friendly and gorgeous one at that, people used to approach me all the time with their dogs DESPITE me telling them politely that I was training my dog and did not want another dog all over him. He was very dog-friendly, but it annoyed me no end to see rude dogs jump all over him. Time and time again I had people come over “oh, Fido is friendly!!” and Fido was decidedly not friendly – would stalk over to my dog hauling on the leash, hackles raised, head and tail upright, stiff legged and very assertive body language. This kind of language is aggressive, not friendly - and while my dog was not aggressive, if another dog attacked him I cannot say he would not fight back. Luckily my GSD was very dog tolerant, but I was not. Putting a muzzle on him sent off a very clear message that he was not to be approached - and I never had another person approach him, not even once, during the time he wore the muzzle. Again, I have to stress – high profile breeds such as GSDs, malinois, even pitbulls - they have enough of a social stigma working against them that even in an accident that was no way their fault (say, another dog attacking them) they would likely still be held culpable by breed bias alone.
This protected him in two ways: it kept people (more importantly, their dogs) away from him and in case of an accident where a dog was to slip their leash and attack him, he would be in no way culpable simply because of his breed.
I want to note that he lived 8 wonderful years with me and was never dog aggressive. He never bit anyone either. But I still used the muzzle that day because of ignorant owners who did not have dogs that were as trained or tolerant as mine.[/QUOTE]
Yes I have 3 dogs and have had quite a few in the past, all different sizes, temperaments, and breeds. I had 2 that I put down due to aggression. 1 for dog aggression and the other for general aggression. Never had a problem with my other dogs including my pit cross I have now.
Double post
[QUOTE=spotted draft x filly;8573213]
Yes I have 3 dogs and have had quite a few in the past, all different sizes, temperaments, and breeds. I had 2 that I put down due to aggression. 1 for dog aggression and the other for general aggression. Never had a problem with my other dogs including my pit cross I have now.[/QUOTE]
Then I think you are making a mountain out of a molehill. Muzzling is not horrible or bad - in most situations it is very appropriate and in situations where things go wrong, it can and will protect your dog from doing something that may otherwise get him euthanized – even if it was not his fault.
Now, in regards to OP’s sharpei, IMHO, unless they are passing him along to more knowledgeable trainers I think the best recourse is PTS.
[QUOTE=beowulf;8573217]
Then I think you are making a mountain out of a molehill. Muzzling is not horrible or bad - in most situations it is very appropriate and in situations where things go wrong, it can and will protect your dog from doing something that may otherwise get him euthanized – even if it was not his fault.
Now, in regards to OP’s sharpei, IMHO, unless they are passing him along to more knowledgeable trainers I think the best recourse is PTS.[/QUOTE]
OK you’re saying the OP’s dog is OK to put down for aggression but I should of muzzled mine? The dog aggressive dog attacked my other dog out of the blue and they have been together for years. My other aggressive dog was becoming a liability and no I didn’t want to take the chance of someone getting hurt. That’s responsible ownership and yes they all had training (not bite training) and all seemed like good dogs, but there was something NQR with them and it’s not worth all the risks to keep them around.
[QUOTE=spotted draft x filly;8573224]
OK you’re saying the OP’s dog is OK to put down for aggression but I should of muzzled mine? The dog aggressive dog attacked my other dog out of the blue and they have been together for years. My other aggressive dog was becoming a liability and no I didn’t want to take the chance of someone getting hurt. That’s responsible ownership and yes they all had training (not bite training) and all seemed like good dogs, but there was something NQR with them and it’s not worth all the risks to keep them around.[/QUOTE]
where did I say that in my post? I never even mentioned your dogs. I was talking about your staunch stance against muzzling and was trying to offer you an alternate view point.
[QUOTE=spotted draft x filly;8573201]
Yes approaching a muzzled dog is stupid but I didn’t say that. When you enter her house and see a muzzled dog laying there, you’re going to be apprehensive even if you don’t ever plan on approaching or touching the dog. Dogs can sense that and it sends a message to the dog that it’s feared which can turn into bigger problems that a muzzle will not solve.
You guys just don’t get it and it’s setting up the dog to fail.[/QUOTE]
I do see where you’re coming from but it isn’t applicable in out situation. The only people who come to our house and friends who know the dog isn’t aggressive and the muzzle doesn’t bother them.
Mostly they visit for group get togetherness and we’ll have s BBQ. Some of them bring kids who live playing with the dog, which is great.
The dogs muzzle still allows her to play fetch with certain types of toy. I want to avoid situations such as both s kid and the dog trying to pick up the toy simultaneously, resulting in the dog accidentally grabbing the kid rather than the toy. It’s easily avoidable with the muzzle.
