Aggressive youngster

[EmilyF]

[QUOTE=gumtree;8584935]
Do you know what to look for when a filly is in season? Do you have a gelding to try teasing her with?. Fillies can come into season and get pregnant as yearlings. There’s no reason to think they couldn’t develop ovarian issues at 2.

It maybe as simple as putting her on Regumate. Or as least trying it. The draw back is I find Regumate to be a bit of a PITA in my opinion.[/QUOTE]

Yes she lives with 2 geldings, but I’ve had a bunch of new boys come in over the last few months and with every single one of them she ‘demonstrates’ and gets very girly. But then so does my 3 year old filly…

I’m trying to work out if she could safely be in the electric pen by herself - its out of sight of the others and right now I won’t risk anyone else as company as she’s got them all whipped into shape. She was weaned from mom normally and lived with a bunch of peers but when I bought my own place they went back together. My mare isn’t aggressive but she is definitely the alpha momma. Its so weird that this baby is bullying her

[HSS]

[QUOTE=EmilyF;8585327]
My mare isn’t aggressive but she is definitely the alpha momma. Its so weird that this baby is bullying her[/QUOTE]

This isn’t as odd as you think- quite often “moma” will allow their baby to act up with impunity. It’s the “aw, isn’t that cute” syndrome.

Separating the offspring from the parent for a while and having the parent bond into another herd usually ends that, but horses know who their family are, so it’s not predicable.

[Equilibrium]

Charging across a 1 acre paddock is what I’m seeing. I know some places don’t have a lot of land but I’m not sure her aggressiveness is wanting to be “top dog”. Seems to be a lot going on for her in a confined space. No grazing I assume just hay. Anyway that can be hard on youngsters.

Terri

[Dressagelvr]

Agreed ^.

One acre is pretty small. How many horses are in it?

Could be a combo of hormones, lack of enough quality forage, and over crowding.

Is there enough hay dispersed in several locations throughout the paddock? Free choice grazing is critical to all horses. Is she fighting for food?

[HSS]

? I acre is small? Not in the arid west it ain’t. EmilyF says she’s from the Bay Area. Having turn out at all in that land is awesome!

There is no forage out here, cause there’s no rain. All horses are on dry lots and fed forage.

I have 1/3 acre paddocks, and that’s plenty of room to roam around here. Huge compared to most, which are 12x14’ or even smaller.

When I yearn for the 5+ acre paddocks of my youth, I don’t yearn for the ice, snow, rain, mold, and did I mention FLIES??? Mosquitoes??? Ugh.

[EmilyF]

Lol, yes you are all correct, 1 acre is tiny!! There are between 5 and 7 horses on it depending on who is getting on with who. I did wonder if she was resource guarding the feed so I started putting hay out 24/7 in nibble nets but it hasn’t helped.

The space isn’t ideal for a baby but we have to work with what we have!

[EmilyF]

Lol, yes you are all correct, 1 acre is tiny!! There are between 5 and 7 horses on it depending on who is getting on with who. I did wonder if she was resource guarding the feed so I started putting hay out 24/7 in nibble nets but it hasn’t helped.

The space isn’t ideal for a baby but we have to work with what we have!

[MysticOakRanch]

[QUOTE=HSS;8587630]
? I acre is small? Not in the arid west it ain’t. EmilyF says she’s from the Bay Area. Having turn out at all in that land is awesome!

There is no forage out here, cause there’s no rain. All horses are on dry lots and fed forage.

I have 1/3 acre paddocks, and that’s plenty of room to roam around here. Huge compared to most, which are 12x14’ or even smaller.

When I yearn for the 5+ acre paddocks of my youth, I don’t yearn for the ice, snow, rain, mold, and did I mention FLIES??? Mosquitoes??? Ugh.[/QUOTE]

Depends on WHERE you are in the West - if you are inland a bit, one acre is still small;) I’m outside of Sacramento, and my smallest “pastures” are about 1/3 to 1/2 acre, but my larger ones are 10 to 20 acres each. Agree, it is arid here - we have green pasture Feb - May usually, but my larger pastures are never totally grazed down - always dry grass that keeps the horses busy between meals.

With a “problem youngster”, boarding somewhere with more space and more horses may be the best option.

[JB]

While the ratio of space:horses might be normal out there, that is a lot of horses in a small space for one who is possibly being more territorial than normal.

That’s the bigger issue over whether that setup is normal/common.

[stoicfish]

[QUOTE=HSS;8587630]
? I acre is small? Not in the arid west it ain’t. EmilyF says she’s from the Bay Area. Having turn out at all in that land is awesome!

There is no forage out here, cause there’s no rain. All horses are on dry lots and fed forage.

I have 1/3 acre paddocks, and that’s plenty of room to roam around here. Huge compared to most, which are 12x14’ or even smaller.

When I yearn for the 5+ acre paddocks of my youth, I don’t yearn for the ice, snow, rain, mold, and did I mention FLIES??? Mosquitoes??? Ugh.[/QUOTE]

Except it should be more about the welfare of the horse. Horses do not belong in a 14x12 space. I realize that it may be all that is available but that doesn’t mean it fits with the animals nature or health.
1/3 of an acre is not huge. Sorry but they are an animal that is meant to move and graze and to be honest the part about the “inconvenience” of the ice and flies for the person compared to the horses welfare struck me as an odd statement.
If that animal is properly exercised, it is less of an issue but it is still not ideal. And just because it is the norm, doesn’t make it more ok.

[HSS]

I admire all you larger land owners, but for most of us, we do what we have to do, with what we can.

I don’t know of a single boarding facility in this area which has larger paddocks than mine. Not one. Don’t even know of one with larger turn out anywhere.

I don’t have a spare 10 or 20 acres to turn into a paddock, and there is NO grass- not EVER.

I disagree that my paddocks are too small, because when your major roam is between the water, the hay, and the sun/wind shelter, 1/3 acre or so is quite adequate. Gives you enough room to get a head of steam up, as you run around madly in between the snowflakes, and play.

Most people around here are keeping horses on 1 acre or less. I feel sorry for them- stuck in pens their entire life, solitary life. I feel even sorrier for the BLM mustangs stuck in their admittedly large paddocks, in the blazing sun, with no shelter, jam packed in. But they are better off, FAR better off than the ones on the outside, with no water or food to speak of, starving and dehydrated in the blazing unforgiving sun, with no milk for the 2 month old foal, who’s trying to subsist on sagebrush.

Let’s get a little perspective here, huh? My horses are pampered, healthy, happy guys. Climate is FAR FAR healthier here than it was back east, far less disease all around, better hoofs, better everything. If they don’t care that they don’t have 5 acres to tear around on, why should you?

[EmilyF]

I don’t know of a single boarding facility in this area which has larger paddocks than mine. Not one. Don’t even know of one with larger turn out anywhere.

This is why I bought my own place, boarding in CA sucks balls! Its expensive, badly done and very poor value for money. My paddock isn’t as big as I’d have ideally but its better than some other options. I spread hay around the perimeter so they mooch around all day and so they aren’t all bundled together on one hay pile. If I could I’d make a paddock paradise track system but my property isn’t the right shape.

On a different note, could having a worm burden make a horse hungry no matter how much they eat? She has ad-lib hay in her own stall and eats everything but isn’t plump like the others.

[omare]

can ulcers make them more aggressive (and a harder keeper)?

[JB]

[QUOTE=omare;8589536]
can ulcers make them more aggressive (and a harder keeper)?[/QUOTE]

absolutely.

[HSS]

[QUOTE=EmilyF;8589152]
[B]On a different note, could having a worm burden make a horse hungry no matter how much they eat? She has ad-lib hay in her own stall and eats everything but isn’t plump like the others.[/QUOTE]

When I lived in CA, I wormed every 60 days with ivemectrin. I was in a boarding facility, and had no control over parasites. Despite all the advertising, my vet at the time advised me that no parasite had built up an immunity to ivermectrin, so I did not rotate wormers.

Now that they are on my own acres, and a closed herd, I worm fall/spring. I still worm youngsters every 60 days till they are 3.

Hard to say why she’s a hard keeper, but if you are concerned, worm, and then do a fecal in a couple of weeks to see. Personally, I would look at teeth first- youngsters have soft teeth, and often need to be done twice a year.

[EmilyF]

Hmmm, I didn’t consider her an ulcer candidate but it could be worth looking into as I’m sure that would be painful.

I’ve never done teeth before 4, but I have the dentist coming soon so I’ll get him to look. Don’t get me wrong, she’s not skinny by any stretch she just doesn’t have the little pot belly that the rest of my fat horses have.

I worm spring and fall too, whenever I’ve fecal tested my herd have had low counts.

[Equilibrium]

Personally I don’t care how many acres you do or don’t have. I’m sure most horses do just fine. The odd horse does not feel safe in such environments. That is the only reason I bring it up. Not sure how many paddocks you have but maybe she’d feel more comfortable with one other horse. No matter how you see yourself some horses feel threatened and on constant alert. You asked for advice. Sometimes it’s more than a medical problem and it’s that simple. You have what you have. I’d try some different things for her with what you have. That is my point. Not being a land barron.

[Texarkana]

Most of my horses have had their teeth first done at two, but are checked before then. Two seems to be when the first wear issues start to surface.

Re: the parasites making her hungry-- I think it’s more likely she just might be going through a growth spurt. Two year olds should be a little bit ribby, definitely not plump or fat. But young horses should be getting regular deworming 4-6 times per year, depending on their parasite load. They are much more prone to heavy parasite burdens than adult horses.

I think you likely have a compound problem with hormones + small space + a baby trying to find her spot in a herd + maybe some other physical issues. Some fillies first heat cycles as yearlings and two year olds are intense. Not unlike teenage girls’ mood swings. I agree I’d likely separate her, let her get the crap zapped out of her by a good fence, and let an alpha mare show her who is boss. Then if she’s still full of piss and vinegar, start investigating other physical issues such as ulcers, ovarian issues, or other pain.

Being stuck in the stall is probably the worst thing for her aggression. That’s how you create horses who are social pariahs.

[clint]

I think there could be a few things going on, and as mentioned ulcers could be one, as could teeth. However, I think putting six or seven horses, mares and geldings together, on an acre could lead to some social issues. I think I would do what MysticOakRanch suggests and board her out on some acreage to see if that solves the problem. FWIW, someone mentioned same-age groups. I don’t think putting babies in same age groups is very effective. I much prefer mixed age, to teach babies structure in the horse world. I don’t think isolating her will solve your problem and may make her worse, when she is returned to a group. I also like smaller groups for young horses.

[MysticOakRanch]

[QUOTE=clint;8595787]
I think there could be a few things going on, and as mentioned ulcers could be one, as could teeth. However, I think putting six or seven horses, mares and geldings together, on an acre could lead to some social issues. I think I would do what MysticOakRanch suggests and board her out on some acreage to see if that solves the problem. FWIW, someone mentioned same-age groups. I don’t think putting babies in same age groups is very effective. I much prefer mixed age, to teach babies structure in the horse world. I don’t think isolating her will solve your problem and may make her worse, when she is returned to a group. I also like smaller groups for young horses.[/QUOTE]

I agree, I always rotated mine through so there were yearlings and 2 year olds together. The yearlings learned humility, then they got older, and the new yearlings came in. Always worked well. But I am lucky enough to have LAND, and full admit, this can be an issue in much of California…

OP - if you have some vet work done, will you let us know if that shows anything - cyst issues, ulcers, etc?