Akhal Teke for Endurance?

Was thinking about the OP’s question and had to come back to add…

Teke’s, as a breed, are just as suited to endurance as Arabs! You need to take it on an individual basis. The sport is not nearly as breed specific as many seem to think. Arabs are most used because they were developed to be able to do it, and there is a higher percentage of them that can still do it (even though most are no longer bred to be able to handle it). However, there are LOTS which are no longer suited to do it well. They are bred for the ring, harness, jumping, etc… Now, they can still do it, but are not as good at higher levels, or require more conditioning.

There are plenty of exceptions to the rule (I mean the breeds standards). In my local club, there is a Canadian Horse (sister breed to the Morgan) that invariable out-performs a purebred Arab… actually a few Arabs!

I would like to see, in a few years, the stats on the PB and part bred Tekes that are being bred for and used in endurance. I do know that a few small breeders/ stallion owners are producing for endurance. I’ve heard good things about Kinor and his offspring and the MV horses.

As you noted, much depends on the individual, although I do maintain that if you took, say, 25 random Arabs and 25 random Tekes and tried them out in endurance, the Arabs would out perform the Tekes.

I may be wrong, but my exposure to the Teke breed in the last 15+yrs has shown me that very few of the PBs are being proven in performance of any kind, and more and more are being graded/judged on ‘type’ more than anything else.

It’s common knowledge around almost any Teke breeder that the Russian inspector is very casual (or unable to recognize) a whole slew of conformational faults, including leg issues.

So, in other words, a horse may have 4 legs that point 6 difference directions, but if it’s close to 16hh, has a hooded eye, long back, highly metallic coat, it’s going to be graded higher than the correct horse with less type.

Now, is that any way to breed?

Granted, the mythical Teke of almost 200 yrs ago (which is when Russian annexed Turkmenistan and began to “tame” the tribes who made raiding part of their livelihood), could have matched any Arab out there, but 200 yrs is a LONG time in the history of the breed and I personally doubt there are too many Tekes out there who are the match of that fabled animal of yore.

But the only way to know is to try them out and breed the ones who do well.

TekeTalk – Personally, I think you did better getting an Arab/Teke x rather than a PB (or even highbred) if you want to be successful in endurance.

What is the breeding of your guy?

Murgab out of a nicely bred Arab mare. Not bred for Endurance. Bred for jumping.

I jump like a sack of potaotes, but liked his look, so got him anyway. We’ll see in 2 years how he does (he’s just comming 3 now) in endurance. I’m not going for high level competition.

He has his sire’s movement. At least he’ll be a comfortable ride!

Familiar with Murgab?

Indeed I am. Cindy Swanson & I are good friends.

But if it’s a Teke, it SHOULD be bred for endurance…that is what the breed was bred for. Arabs too.

[QUOTE=TalkTeke;5538736]
Familiar with Murgab?[/QUOTE]

HI TalkTeke !

Murgab is the first son of one of my broodmares, he got his outstanding movement from her, she has the original old-style, very slinky movement that is what makes the breed so awesome.

Hope he does well for you !

NOT an endurance rider, but have always thought the ATs were stunning! Just my $.02. :wink:

Love the Tekes :yes: My mare was a Czech with Teke background and had the most metallic coat and VERY protective. I was walking her and someone was talking to me and went to touch me and she tried to bite her:eek:

I loved that mare and wish I never sold her:(

It’ a crap shoot anyway!

Fwiw, I said the same about AT suitability to someone who, happened to be a two-time winner:cool: of the old dominion here in Va. He is himself:winkgrin: breeding for endurance; and said Ats are not suitable due to “lack of bone:confused:” I lived on the at stud farm of Phil and Margot case, thanks to their hospitality:yes::yes:; and saw first hand that Ats’ conformation and temperament does seem to vary :yes:widely; as in any other discipline ; it is a matter of choosing the :winkgrin:right two individuals ; doing your homework:yes: and then crossing your fingers:lol:; I would be interested to see what you got:yes:________________
breeder of mercury!

Hi all! Sorry I fell off the map for so long–life emergencies hit with a vengeance, though all’s well now. I remembered this thread today and was delighted to see how much has been posted since last I could check.

It is so wonderful to hear all these experiences. I’m learning a great deal.

Regarding Russian vs. old-time breeding of the Teke, many Iranian breeders in Iran have the old type since Russia never subdued the Turkmen tribes in Iran. Here is a group that still breeds them–note that some ARE Russian bred, but many are not. The difference is striking:

http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=129182163758999

Also, in Iran, there are many strains of Turkmen horse, of which the Teke is just one. Iranian Teke tend to be bred to Yomud (another tribe’s breed of Turkmen) mares, so they aren’t “pure” Akhal, but are still entirely Turkmen. Yomud horses are famed for their endurance but are less physically attractive than Teke, and are shorter. They likely had an infusion of Arab blood around the 14th century, according to Iranian sources, and their different conformation may also be a product of Central Asian Mongol-type influence as well.

http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=120529761314847

An Arab sire crossed to a Teke dam produces what is called a Chenaran horse in Iran, a cross famed for being hardier than either breed alone, in Iranian historical annals. I think Kyzteke has bred a number of reverse-Chenarans (Teke stallion, Arab mare) with great results. When I have a more stable economic situation I’d love to get a Chenaran!

Did those facebook links work?

Thanks!

[QUOTE=Kyzteke;5538952]

But if it’s a Teke, it SHOULD be bred for endurance…that is what the breed was bred for. Arabs too.[/QUOTE]

Yes it is what the breed was originally bred for. But that doesn’t mean that is what all individuals will excell at. Like not all Arabs can do endurance.

Wait, having a brain fart; do you mean that all breeders of the two breeds should be breeding a horse that can excell at endurance?? Because that is what they went ment to do in generations past? Sorry, poor sleep last night and not sure I’m reading right.

I do agree that all Teke breeders should strive to breed a horse with good legs and feet, clean moving and therefore could do endurance, at least at the lower levels. But just because they have these characteristics do not necessarily make a great Endurance horse.

I think that takes extra selection from the norm to consistantly reproduce.

What about other markets Teke’s excell at? Dressage or jumping? I have friends that do these sports, and they look for a horse confo much differnt than I do.

[QUOTE=QacarXan;5749343]

An Arab sire crossed to a Teke dam produces what is called a Chenaran horse in Iran, a cross famed for being hardier than either breed alone, in Iranian historical annals. I think Kyzteke has bred a number of reverse-Chenarans (Teke stallion, Arab mare) with great results. When I have a more stable economic situation I’d love to get a Chenaran!

Did those facebook links work?

Thanks![/QUOTE]

Facebook links work. Very cool, nice horses!

I own a “reverse-Chenaran”. Wonder if they differ from a Chenaran? :winkgrin:

Talking to other cross owners, they are more laid back than their parent breeds. I have yet to speak to anyone with a competition age one yet though.

[QUOTE=TalkTeke;5749396]
Facebook links work. Very cool, nice horses!

I own a “reverse-Chenaran”. Wonder if they differ from a Chenaran? :winkgrin:

Talking to other cross owners, they are more laid back than their parent breeds. I have yet to speak to anyone with a competition age one yet though.[/QUOTE]

Interesting to hear about their laid-back attitude–also in the historical record, they were most popular for serving as military mounts in Iran’s army. Perhaps the laid-back attitude lent itself better to having multiple riders of varying skill, as would be common in the military, whereas a more possessive and intense horse might lend itself better to an individual or family’s ownership?

Hi Teke afficianados–just found something that might interest endurance riders who wonder what the Teke is traditionally fed before a long, long endurance ride.

This is excerpted from Demetrius Charles Boulger’s “The Turkmen” from 1879.

"The Turkmen horse is not less an object of affection to his master than the Arab is to his. When it has been decided to carry out a raid into Persia, the Turkmen puts his horse through a regular course of training, of which the following is a description. For thirty days before the time appointed for the start the animal is exercised daily, part of that exercise being to gallop at full speed for half an hour. Some hours after he is brought in he is fed, his food consisting of six pounds of hay, or clover-hay, and about three pounds of barley or one-half the usual allowance of corn. During this period as little water as possible is given to the horse. Sometimes this period is shorter than the time specified, particularly if the animal appears to be in the necessary hard condition. But the preparatory course of training does not stop here, although the start for the scene of the proposed foray, or chapaoul, is then made. Each Turkmen takes with him an inferior horse called yaboo, which he himself rides until he reaches the place of action. It then serves to carry back the plunder. The charger, as it may be termed, follows bare-backed and without bridle his master, and the advance is graduated so that the daily march shall not be excessive. During this later stage, which lasts from the time of starting until the arrival at the scene where it is proposed to assail the Persian village, the horse’s food is changed to four pounds and a quarter of barley flour, two pounds of maize flour, and two pounds of raw sheep’s-tail fat chopped very fine. These are well mixed and kneaded together, and given to the horse in the form of a ball.

While taking this no hay is given to him, and this food is much liked by the horse. After four days of this food he is considered to be in prime condition, and capable not only of attaining the greatest speed but also of sustaining the most protracted fatigue. Then the yaboo is discarded and left in the rear, while the Turkmen on his charger goes forward to carry out the design which has occasioned the whole enterprise. It is said that when in this high state of training the Turkmen horse can perform a daily journey of one hundred miles, and continue the same degree of sustained speed for several days. There is no valid reason for doubting this statement, and the performance of this almost unequalled feat rests upon testimony of the most unequivocal kind.

The grand secret of the treatment of their horses by the Turkmen is undoubtedly to be found in the fact that they most carefully prevent their taking any green food. The character of the soil of Kara Kum is peculiarly favorable to the practice of this sound theory, for it produces only during the spring anything green at all. During that period the Turkmen are always quiescent; but in the month of August, and sometimes before, the horse is put upon his regular allowance of dry food, viz. seven pounds of barley mixed with dry chopped straw, lucerne, and clover hay.

This treatment undoubtedly tends to give the horse a stamina and higher temperature than any other horse of which we know, not excepting the Arab. The horse is also treated by these people with quite as much sympathy and affection as he is in Arabia. He is never ill-treated, and any Turkmen who attempted to ill-use him would be visited with the scorn of all men. The feeling is clearly traceable to the companionship which exists between the master and his horse from the time when the latter was a foal; and as the Turkmen’s safety often depends exclusively upon the good qualities of his charger, it is intelligible that that affection should become stronger with age instead of weaker. "

I am new to this board. I am finally at the point where I can purchase my first horse and I have wanted to do endurance for the last ten years. I have also wanted an Akhal Teke since I saw the picture of the shiny palomino stallion in some old horse encyclopedia when I was a kid.

Although I have never participated in endurance racing, various forums over the last few years have shaken my confidence to get a teke for endurance (because so many of them seem to be beauty pageant winners but not capable of the abilities once attributed to them)

This forum was the first mention I have heard of an old type of these horses existing in Iran.

Has anyone seen these horses in person, does anyone in the states own one?

Is it possible to import horses from Iran? Are there other breeders out there (hopefully in the states) breeding specifically for endurance?

I still have the dream in my head of having one of these horses but since I cannot have an unlimited number of horses I want to have a horse that has a realistic possibility of being able to race in endurance. I know the easy answer is just get an arabian but I am not ready to let go of legendary shiny horse dream just yet :slight_smile:

Thanks!

I can’t help ya with info on importing from Iran but there are certainly purebred and partbred Tekes competing in endurance. Inde is scheduled for Tevis (it’s in October, this year). Darginka just won an LD (25 miler–she pulses down fast).

There are some very cool Teke Arabs kicking around. Can’t wait to see wht they’ll do down the road. Another member has an extremely nice 3 yo!

There does seem to be a trend for Tekes to get taller as the Russians breed for racing, dressage and jumping. Top endurance horses tend to be upper 14/lower 15 hands…and for the step-child of enduro, R&T, there’s no way you want something approaching 16, unless you AND your partner are quite tall. That said, there are a couple of shorter studs. Murgab outside of Alberta is classic, shorter and has exceptional movement. Kuwwat in OR also isn’t too tall–and he’s been bred to an Arab and to a Mustang…hmm, which makes an AkhalTang. Or a Musteke.

Welcome, Nate.

Hi and welcome!

Your best bet is definitely finding a good place to buy in North America with the help of the experts here (they are obviously VERY helpful!).

Sanctions laws prohibit basically any commerce between here and Iran, such that you would get a very hefty jail sentence just for sending money to a bank account there. The political situation, frankly, is a real tragedy for the horses (and the humans). If anyone knows of any Iranian-derived bloodlines outside Iran, please do share!

I should have been more clear in my post. I didn’t mean to insult anyone, I know there are tekes competing but because I am a newbie (i have ridden casually my whole life) and because I have zero experience with endurance I would not have the slightest idea where to find or how to pick an appropriate endurance prospect, and I would be super bummed out to wind up with a pretty but useless field decoration.

Lisa, the people that you mentioned that are competing, do they breed regularly or did they do the legwork and find appropriate horses from other breeders?

I am tall (for a girl I guess) 5’10", don’t know how much that would affect my selection except that I might need a slightly larger horse.

I figured there was some kind of embargo with Iran, but I thought I would ask anyway.

And another thing I don’t have the capacity to break/train a young horse myself, I would more likely be the one to get broken. I would need a horse that was pretty much ready to go and the only 3+ year old horses I see anywhere for endurance are arabs or arab x. If anyone knows of teke or teke x please let me know.

thank you all for the information!

Nate5,

There are numerous Akhal-Teke purebreds and partbreds for sale across the US right now. If you PM your specifics I can try to direct you to some of them.

Just for kicks, I’m linking to some photos of my now 6 year-old 1/2 Akhal-Teke 1/2 TB. I bred her myself, out of my TB mare and by the Teke stallion Super Star.

She’s started eventing, just the low levels now but she’s a terrific XC horse (her half-sister was an Advanced eventer) and this week, she’s participating in a children’s dressage competition with an international rider. She has foxhunted and we do have plans to do some endurance with her eventually.

Although her parents are 16hh and 15.2hh, she’s topped out at 14.2hh. But she carries an adult very well. You’ll notice she has the Teke head/ears/body.

Zizi cantering

jumping a crossrail

biting her full TB sister (you can see how narrow she is)

She’s a fun horse, naturally bold, extremely intelligent, and a superb athlete.

:slight_smile:

She is so beautiful!

Out of curiosity what made you want an at x tb cross?