I’ve often had this same thought. All large animal, including equine, vets really should carry and know how to use a captive bolt gun for cases like the OP’s. On that note, I wonder if there might have been a farm animal practice vet in the area? Just an idea for future reference - they might be more likely to have a captive bolt gun and be practiced in its use.
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For all that I’ve just complained about captive bolt guns being absent among equine vets, I will admit my large (farm) animal vet colleagues have never mentioned carrying one either, and the one time we ran out of euthanasia solution on a pig euthanasia call during school, there was no captive bolt gun around. What I learned from that experience is that the lead vet was better for brawn than brains and I should just take the keys, drive back to the hospital that was 5 minutes away, pick up more euthanasia solution and drive back to the farm. Thirty minutes of fapping around, followed by a ten minute round trip and then two minutes later we were done.
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I seriously doubt any LEOs in my area would know the proper method of killing a horse with a gun. They can sometimes dispatch deer. Sometimes. But Fish and Game might know better - my understanding is the wardens are actually trained in dispatching large animals cleanly. They don’t want injured wildlife to suffer, or injure someone else.
OP, I’m so sorry this happened. I had one that didn’t go cleanly - I’d forgotten the mare was basically immune to Ketamine. Aside from putting her down earlier, I doubt there was anything that you could have done differently.
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I would like to address a couple of things about LE. First of all jurisdictional ordinances and regulations vary significantly across the country. Second, many times LE must verify ownership of the animal in question before damaging property (sorry folks but that’s what animals are in most cases). In Arizona, LE must get the permission from the Department of Ag to euthanize livestock if an owner is not present or known. I worked in another state where a horse who had been hit by a car needed to be euthanized. In that county I did not need permission from the owner who at that time was not known or anyone else to euthanize the animal. Many jurisdictions have ‘good Samaritan’ laws that are supposed to ‘protect’ those carrying out humane acts to spare suffering but they can be dicey if you’re ever caught up in such a situation. I also worked for a few years teaching for the Univ of MO with their Animal Abuse and Cruelty Investigator Certification Program. There are 3 levels. Most students were LE or Animal Control. One of the courses I taught in the second level was how to humanely euthanize a variety of species using a firearm - that included the size of caliber, type of fire arm and where to aim. No, not all LE are aware of or possess this knowledge. The one rule I drilled in my lectures on this topic (though for most commissioned officers, ie, those who can carry a firearm on duty it wasn’t necessary) was that they absolutely had to know the law in their jurisdiction before making a decision to shoot any animal under any circumstance, just crossing township or county lines can be the difference of can or can’t legally. This applies to veterinarians as well and I’m continuously amazed at how many veterinarians really do not know the law or worse, misinterpret the law as it applies in their locale.
Over the years I have frequently joked that as vets we always enter a room, take a call or come through a farm gate with at least plan a, b, c and d in our pocket because so often things do not present as we expect from what preliminary information we’re given; however, I also know that having the ability to think on your feet and be able to craft plan E as you’re working things out is a skill you must bring with you to the table if you’re going to be able to survive the profession for very long - and judgment really has no place when a vet must develop plan E - it’s a ‘you must walk in one’s shoes sort of thing’. My heart goes out to all involved in such dire, stressful and emotionally draining situations.
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OP, i am so sorry for your loss and that it went so horribly wrong and you had to see all that. I won’t go intoo details (because I will cry) but my last horse passed under unlovely circumstances as well. So I get it.
Not all LE can or will destroy an animal. We are fortunate in my county that the the local SO and PD can and will and have been trained. All I can think of is my ex-bf (sgt in a major metropolitan PD) getting a call from two rookies out in the field at the far south end of their beat. They had been called to take care of a cow that had gotten in the roadway, been hit and had broken legs. These two fools took cover (!!!) behind their vehicle and were trying to shoot this poor thing with their pistols from some distance. They had each nearly emptied a clip into it. My ex gets there, takes one look at the situation, calls them idiots, marches over and dispatches the poor beast with a single shot to the head. Using some info I had taught him. Got back in his patrol car and drove off, cigarette never fell out of his mouth. He was so mad at them.
Yes! Have a back up plan. Neighbors, another vet, Fish & Game if you are lucky (out here you can barely get them to respond to their own calls).
And all you vets out there - I salute you. I could never do what you do.
Again, so sorry.
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You bring up good points for sure. Just expecting/assuming LE can/will dispatch livestock, which is different than wildlife, can be an erroneous assumption.
At one point many years ago, I asked my vet if he carried/owned a captive bolt. He told me he did not. He felt that a correctly placed round from a .22 would do the trick with the round being of minimal caliber comparing to larger caliber weapons. In most places, a .22 is not a legal caliber for wildlife because a wildlife takedown shot is typically not what you’d use to humanely euthanize a large domesticated animal like a cow or horse.
I think the key thing is have a plan, and then a backup plan and know that sometimes things, unfortunately, don’t go as planned.
Sorry to hear that you had to experience this.
Our vets here all carry guns for this reason, as well as some clients want their animals euthanized this way because they are not burying immediately or are composting. I have been told that vets cannot chemically euthanize here if there is not a hole for burial already dug in order to protect wildlife.
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I’m so sorry you had to experience that.
The two good pieces to come from it were that you can educate others who may not have a back up plan/hadn’t considered things going wrong and you obviously gave the mare a really great, long life where she was treated like royalty.
I lost a mare and foal in a freak birthing disaster two years ago. I like to think that even though the last two hours of her life sucked, the other two decades weren’t too bad and I focus on remembering those. I also told my story to all the people online jumping into breeding without regard for how quickly things can go wrong. Hugs to you.
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I am very sorry for your loss, and thank you for using your experience to help others.
I track vet told me about an accident she once came upon, where a horse had been hit by a car, and had a couple of broken legs. The officer that responded, tried to euthanize with his gun, and blew the horses sinus’s out. The poor thing was trying to gallop away, with broken legs, while bleeding out.
The vet went to the library and took out a book on euthanizing different animals with a gun, and left it at that police station for all to read.
The ACO here has a 22 to dispatch wildlife. She has horses too. I am thinking she might be able to do the deed, if it ever came to that, or I would as the local PD, and tell them how.
That’s very sad. Your obligation as a horseperson is to try to help them thru the suffering. You did that. The outcome wasn’t what you’d hoped, and I applaud you for thinking about backups, but you should feel some relief that you did your best in this case.
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Yes, this 1000x. You did the best with what you had. And that’s all that matters.
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Thank you for your kind words everyone.
Local law enforcement here aren’t able to euthanise animals on private property. They’re able to do injured wildlife if no one else is available. Though it’s interesting to see how much it really varies.
I’ve since found out captive bolt guns are able to be purchased and used without a license. Why the large animal vets here don’t carry them, I have no idea. But it’s another avenue to explore.
@BrokenArrow. again, so, so sorry for your loss and your experience.
What plays, I suspect, into LE’s decisions in part are that livestock (horses, cattle, etc) are property of an individual (unlike wildlife that is usually considered property of a ‘government’). Location, which I hadn’t thought of, does make sense. Private property isn’t open field day for LE.
My personal opinion, rather that pursing a captive bolt, and with practice and research, get a .22. They are easy to handle and fire and don’t require actual contact with the head to be effective. You certainly don’t want to be standing 30 feet away and attempt the proper head placement, but no actual contact needed.
Again {{BrokenArrow}}
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I did buy a firearm when I lived in a very rural area and realized how long it could be before the local vet could arrive in an emergency. I was taught how to euth by firearm (thankfully never had to do it) but I was told that a .22 was not enough. Vet explained that people fail to commit suicide by shooting themselves in the head with .22s and that a horse’s head has much stronger bone, they may be thrashing which will affect your aim, so a .38 it was.
This is such a tough subject, but high on the list of horrible is having to helplessly watch a suffering animal with no means to end it (I’ve been there.)
OP, I am so sorry that you and your vet had such a terrible experience. Sending healing thoughts your way.
It would be nice to send your vet a thank you card or small gift.
As I’m sure you know, it’s really tough for the vet. Even though they did everything they could under the circumstances, they are only human and may feel that they let both you and your mare down.
With the advent of very high suicide numbers in the veterinary profession it’s a good thing to be mindful of their feelings as well as our own…
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PO, I’m so sorry that you, your vet, and the poor mare had to endure this difficult and trying situation. Take aregard’s words to heart. You did your best in a very difficult situation.
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If captive bolt guns are available, they would surely be a better option than a firearm. They weren’t available where I lived at the time.
Again, I’m sorry for your loss and that it was such a struggle.
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Having not only been brought up on a dairy farm which included raising registered beef, I have fulfilled the role of a large animal vet in my past, I will tell you that it is uncommon for a vet to euthanize/put to sleep cattle. Usually it’s a discussion of how best to salvage the carcass. Sometimes large animal vets do have the ability to use a fire arm to kill cattle for the owner but typically it’s the owner who arranges the death of the animal, again with the idea of salvaging the carcass in a fashion that complies with food safety. I have euthanized sheep and goats; but, none of those required alternative methods and exsanguination is a method used by some owners, again in order to salvage the carcass.
To address the question/proposal of veterinarians being versed in alternative methods to euthanize well we are it’s just that most often you get the lesson in text and verse not in demonstration. Those times when it’s required are typically few and far between so it’s not a method one is always comfortable with or honestly prepared for due to the infrequency. As for being trained in how to use firearms, I doubt you will ever see that as a part of the veterinary curriculum for many reasons including liability and jurisdiction issues. I knew how because of how and when I was raised. I have oftened wonder (and at times worried) how this issue will evolve/be handled because the decreasing number of grads with a farming background which doesn’t guarantee knowledge of firearm use but increases the likelihood.
Those of us that do carry are required to obtain the same permits (and thus education on how to handle a gun and aim at targets at a range) as any individual who chooses to possess firearms. We must follow the same laws and there are rarely exceptions made for our job. I had a permit for using a dart gun which I was not taught how to use in school but had on the job training. The need was there and I was in ‘demand’ but it’s not something you find justifying adding to the curriculum. There are so few large animal vets being produced compared to other disciplines that like many other areas of specialization, the onus is on you to find the education outside of mainstream school.
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I’m very sorry you experienced this. She sounds like a nice broodmare. It sounds like she wa enjoying her earned retirement.
What does the vet think caused her illness? Did he suspect guttural pouch mycosis? Tooth infection? I had a mare that started off with a mild discharge in one nostril and it progressed quickly to her requiring an endoscope and aggressive treatment. It’s hard to know when a snotty nose is just a change in weather or something more serious.
What does the vet think caused her illness? Did he suspect guttural pouch mycosis? Tooth infection? I had a mare that started off with a mild discharge in one nostril and it progressed quickly to her requiring an endoscope and aggressive treatment. It’s hard to know when a snotty nose is just a change in weather or something more serious.
Suspected guttural pouch mycosis was the main guess. Mainly because it happened so rapidly and the amount of blood loss was typical for a rupture. It’s going to make me paranoid about every slightly snotty nose from now on.
Sorry but that is a lousy vet, find another profession . Its easy to shoot a horse andfirst saw it as as a kid . the post about not killing the deer with one shot was outrageous. Look it up. ,cross from ear to eye.
I put down an injured deer with a 38 and I had never shoot an animal before, one shot easy.
My good friend only shoots her horses as she doesn’t see why she should pay a vet . she does give a tran first if they are neuro she also buries all her horse on her farm , a real horse cemetery.She’s 79 yrs old and I have learned so much from her.
I only use vets who have horses and/or ride. You can’t learn equine health and behavior in Vet school. I learned that truth very early.
