Am I a bad person?

[findeight]

See if you can privately hire a vet tech or two or even a vet student to help out…even if you are home, working 12 hr shifts means you need to sleep sometimes and chronic severe sleep deprivation is not going to impress your new superiors. You can’t do this without some qualified help.

Ask your vet, maybe ask your small animal vet as well. Maybe a neighbor or friend could pick up a few for you. Doesn’t have to be just one person. More then you think might be interested in picking up a few bucks for a couple of visits if it’s not long term daily/nightly.

For those that pointed out this is one instance where being in a boarding barn would help? Think again. Many can’t or won’t provide this kind of round the clock service. Even if you pay extra for it. They just aren’t there 24/7, have another job off the property and /or don’t have the full time staff available to cover it. You’d need to hire somebody there too.

But if that doesn’t materialize, no you are not a bad person. At all, just a caring owner doing the best you can with what you have, including time and finances.

[shiningwizard255]

As others have said, talk to your vet and see what they recommend. You are not a bad person to be thinking of this, as eye ulcers are painful and you are doing what you can do to take care for her. She’ll likely adjust just fine to losing the eye if it comes down to that. If it were my horse though, if the eye were at all savable I’d want to try. My horse is also a pasture pony and has had two eye ulcers (both in the same eye). Both times it cleared up with medicine. I am not sure of your exact situation, maybe I missed it…do you board? Is there someone that makes it out often that could help you out til the ulcer clears up? This is what I had to do, my friend helped me as I live an hour away from my horse and I work full time with a long commute to work. Offer to pay of course, but maybe that’s an option? If it’s not though, I don’t think you are a bad person to be thinking of removing the eye.

[Pennywell_Bay]

1. To answer your question: No. I had to enucleate one of mine. He had an ulcer that would not heal and the iris ruptured. That was fun and quite painful for him.

2. Talk to the vet and explain your situation. My vet (doesn’t have techs) but knows quite a few horse people that she has recommended in the past when I had to travel and needed help with medicating a naughty pony who my SO just couldn’t wrestle.

3. lay up facilities are quite costly, but perhaps not as costly as an enucleation. Mine total was $1700 but he stayed at the clinic for a few days. A local rehab place is 1/3 of that for a month stay and just eye medication (no true rehab, swimming etc).

[reefy]

This sounds like a miracle solution!!!

[QUOTE=Ghazzu;8769760]
Not a bad person.
But–before you make the decision, see if your vet can do the lavage system with a constant infusor.

It is a device a bit like a water balloon that provides a sort of constant drip irrigation, so you don’t have to frequently aminister meds through the tubing.[/QUOTE]

[Hej]

In your mare’s case, if you can’t arrange to have her eye medicated as required, either through helpers or an in-place lavage device, I would absolutely have the eye removed. Enucleation provides immediate pain relief, and horses adjust very well.

If your mare needs medication every four hours, she needs it every four hours. Corneal ulcers can go bad even when treated aggressively. If aggressive treatment isn’t possible (whatever the reason) the chances of it healing are poor at best, and this is a painful condition.

You are wise to consider all your options, you clearly have the best interest of your mare at heart.

[JoannaHCR]

You aren’t a terrible person. We had a fungal corneal ulcer, treated extremely aggressively, my mom doesn’t work any more and was an RN, so he had experienced round the clock medical care, it didn’t respond well so he had to have surgery where they put some pig intestine over it (had to be knocked all the way out)… a few days later, even with meds going in every 3 hours, the pig intestine came unstitched, so had to have another more minor surgery, then a few days later, the iris prolapsed and had to have another surgery that he had to be completely knocked out for. That was 3 surgeries in 1 week. There may or may not have been a car refinanced in the process…

Here he is, just for fun: http://www.lastingstarequestrian.com/high-knowtoriety

We did save his eye, but he is the sweetest guy and very tolerant, did well on stall rest, and very stoic with pain. He’s my best and furthest along competition horse and it was worth it to keep him “whole” so to speak. Had it been one of our older broodmares we absolutely would have removed the eye.

A full 1.5 months of stall rest with that sort of medication schedule isn’t an easy thing for a horse. He’s recovered well and jumps great, we don’t regret doing it for him–it was worth it since he has regained a lot of sight, he does spook more now… but like I said, most of our others would have become one-eyed wonders.

Moral: you aren’t terrible, this can turn extremely expensive–and fast, the treatment is sometimes not easy on the horse, talk to your vet, and make the right choice for you and your horse.

Good luck!

[beaujolais]

.

[RnR]

I know this feeling all too well!

My retired pony got a stromal abcess about 3 months ago. It was a nightmare. The only luck I had was that he was wonderful to medicate, and I had about 1 month between graduating grad school and starting a new job, so I was more capable of treating him. That being said, it still wasn’t easy since I board him. After less than a week of driving back and forth to the barn at all hours and feeling like I was going to fall asleep on every drive, the barn owner offered her spare bedroom. I ended up hard-core treating him for a solid month while living at the barn, starting with 8 times a day and decreasing after a month to 4 times. I worked at the barn breakfast, lunch, and dinner to help “pay” off the huge favor my barn owner was allowing me. I then had to move to my new job a few hours away so I paid a fence company to fence in my non-horsey parent’s yard, begged and pleaded and got mom to agree to treat him. After 3 months, about 2k in bills, and a couple layers of stomach lining, he is off all meds, stable, and still has both his eyes.

I cannot tell you how many times I felt like calling up my vet and asking him to just take the eye though. Having gone through it, I wouldn’t blame you if you did. If mine had happened when I had just started my new job, there was NO way I could have done all of that. I feel for you! You do what you can, but sometimes it is most ethical to get them out of pain. Something my trainer said that helped me a lot when I was really struggling with guilt over how to best treat my pony was that horses don’t feel remorse or sadness. Meaning my pony would never blame me for removing his eye, all he knows is he is pain free and being fed like the fat and happy pony he is.

[Eventer13]

[QUOTE=Ghazzu;8769760]
Not a bad person.
But–before you make the decision, see if your vet can do the lavage system with a constant infusor.[/QUOTE]

Has this actually been put into place in the field? If so, can you direct me to studies beyond the pilot performed in 2006?

[OverandOnward]

[QUOTE=RnR;8771269]
… Something my trainer said that helped me a lot when I was really struggling with guilt over how to best treat my pony was that horses don’t feel remorse or sadness. Meaning my pony would never blame me for removing his eye, all he knows is he is pain free and being fed like the fat and happy pony he is.[/QUOTE]

I am so glad you were able to make it work as you wanted it to for your pony - but were prepared to handle it as necessary and best for you and the pony, both. That was an awesome amount of dedication. You are now one of my heroes, RnR.

[Ghazzu]

[QUOTE=Eventer13;8771340]
Has this actually been put into place in the field? If so, can you direct me to studies beyond the pilot performed in 2006?[/QUOTE]

don’t have any studies to hand, but have run across the device in a clinical setting.

[Ghazzu]

Here’s Mila’s version of it.

[AKB]

Sometimes, horses who have an eye ulcer, also have uveitis, which made the eye itchy and painful. The horse rubs the sore eye and causes the ulcer. I would not consider removing the eye unless you see an ophthalmologist who feels confident that the other eye is completely healthy. A one eyed horse can function fairly normally. Blind horses don’t do so well.

[BeeHoney]

I’ve done both. I treated a nasty ulcer with round the clock medications (including pain meds) in a valuable yearling filly, lost a lot of sleep but the filly kept the eye. It was worth it for a young horse destined for a competitive career.

In another older horse, we treated the ulcer aggressively but finally gave up and enucleated the eye. I was upset about it at first and felt like we had failed, but as soon as it was done I was so extremely glad we had done it. The horse had been in a lot of pain and BAM, as soon as the surgery was over he was completely comfortable and back to his normal self.

Frankly, unless you really need the horse to keep the eye (resale value, competition horse) the horse would probably just as soon have the eye out.

[AKB]

Where are you located? Maybe some of us can help. The main thing is to get meds into that eye as soon as possible and as often as possible. If it can get done at home, that is fine. If not, she needs to go to a vet hospital ASAP to get meds.

[Hej]

[QUOTE=BeeHoney;8771504]
I’ve done both. I treated a nasty ulcer with round the clock medications (including pain meds) in a valuable yearling filly, lost a lot of sleep but the filly kept the eye. It was worth it for a young horse destined for a competitive career.

In another older horse, we treated the ulcer aggressively but finally gave up and enucleated the eye. I was upset about it at first and felt like we had failed, but as soon as it was done I was so extremely glad we had done it. The horse had been in a lot of pain and BAM, as soon as the surgery was over he was completely comfortable and back to his normal self.

Frankly, unless you really need the horse to keep the eye (resale value, competition horse) the horse would probably just as soon have the eye out.[/QUOTE]

Your experiences almost exactly parallel my own with corneal ulcers.

I just reread my earlier post and it sounds pretty abrupt, which is not at all what I intended. I, too, had a retired fella who faced months of painful treatment (despite aggressive treatment, did not respond as we hoped), and the enucleation was SUCH a relief to both of us.

Thanks for your clear and compassionate post.

[Lady_Eboshi]

[QUOTE=driftlace;8768897]
Last week my horse scratched her eye. She developed a corneal ulcer and was taken to the vet. The vet examined it, cultured it, and sent us home with some atropine, antibiotics, and pain meds to be given every 4 hours. He said it was a very bad ulcer, about as bad as they can get. The horse is in a lot of pain and has started giving me trouble with putting the ointments in her eye, so we have an appointment to have the lavage system put in her eye next week. Even with the lavage system though, the meds will have to be delivered every 4 hours.

My problem is this. I am a new grad nurse and am fixing to start working full time night shifts this weekend. I have barely been able to give her the meds every 4 hours (have missed some) and I know when I start working I’m definitely not going to be able to. I have a long commute so I’ll basically be able to give them to her before I leave and when I get home, so 2x a day which I know is not nearly enough. I live with my parents but they also work full time jobs and will not be able to give the meds as often as needed. She is in a lot of pain and from reading posts on here, I have seen that it can take months for this to resolve, and that’s with giving the meds exactly as directed.

So basically what my question is is would it be terrible to just go ahead and remove her eye? We are already close to $400 in vet bills and it hasn’t even been a week. The horse is retired due to ligament injuries and is just a pasture pony. I feel like this would be the best decision but I still feel horrible about it. I just don’t want her to be in so much pain. I have not brought it up to the vet but I feel like they would think I am a horrible person and am not trying hard enough to save her eye… Sorry for the long post but any advice would be greatly appreciated!![/QUOTE]

There is no such thing as being a “bad person” because of ANY medical decision made on behalf of an animal.

There are certain choices. Some better, some less likely to work, some you can afford and others, not. Some depend on labor-intensive care that is not an option. Pick the one that works best for you! The main point here is that enucleation will get the horse instant and complete, permanent relief.

NO ONE has the right to judge you on which you choose, because it isn’t their decision and affects no one else. Do what you must, but DO NOT run it up the flag pole on FB or wherever to expose yourself to the judgment of randos whose boredom will be momentarily assuaged by calling you a “bad person” and starting a pile-on ruckus.

We all have to prioritize the pieces of our lives. I call it “adulting.”

[Ruth0552]

[QUOTE=Eventer13;8771340]
Has this actually been put into place in the field? If so, can you direct me to studies beyond the pilot performed in 2006?[/QUOTE]

My horse has a lavage system currently that was put it in the field. No constant infusor though. I imagine that is just a device that attaches to the tube so I don’t think the implantation would be any different.

Does the horse have a bacterial infection or a fungal infection? My understanding of corneal ulcers was that they typically heal very quickly if there is no infection, and even with a bacterial infection tend to heal pretty quick. My retired OTTB has a fungal infection in his eye- like you can see the fungus- and he’s on a very expensive anti-fungal, antibiotics, atropine, his own serum (all delivered via SPL) and he’s on Previcoxx for maintenance so those are his pain meds.

Did your vet get the culture back? Did he do a cytology? What pain meds is she on?

I seriously considered if it would just be better to have the eye removed, but after talking with the opthamologist (who came to my farm) I decided to attempt to treat for a couple weeks and if no improvement we are removing the eye. I was quoted 2500 for hospitalization for a couple days and having the lavage put in, 2500 for hospitalization with enucleation, or having my local vet put in the lavage in the field and having her do the enucleation if necessary. The local vet put in the lavage system, though I had to get the kit from the opthamologist. The horse is on 24/7 turnout and I don’t have stalls so he is wearing a hood and a flymask and it is going pretty well actually. The opthamologist recommended 4 times a day for the meds so that’s what we’ve been doing. I’m up to 1K in vet bills for this so far. I think a standing enucleation in the field by my local vet will be under 1K.

I do the best I can regarding the meds. Since my issue is a fungal infection I do the antifungal and the antibiotics frequently, but the atropine less frequently. There is a lot of debate over whether atropine causes the gut to slow down and cause colic so I’m cautious with atropine.

[Daisyesq]

[QUOTE=Ghazzu;8769760]
Not a bad person.
But–before you make the decision, see if your vet can do the lavage system with a constant infusor.

It is a device a bit like a water balloon that provides a sort of constant drip irrigation, so you don’t have to frequently aminister meds through the tubing.[/QUOTE]

Wow, I never heard of this type of lavage! What a great idea, if it could work.

OP, the lavage system is so much easier than trying to get eye meds into the eye. Horse will tolerate it well. It will be much easier on you and will be possible for your parents, as well (unless they are ENTIRELY horse newbies and couldn’t lead or halter your horse). Please give it a try every 4 hours for as many days as possible before you go to 2x a day…

Also systemic pain meds for the horse.

The eye has amazing possibility to heal itself, so if you can only do 2x a day, and if the horse’s pain can be managed, then that’s what you do. (Before removing the eye).

Good luck!

[driftlace]

Thank you everyone for taking the time to respond. I spoke with my vet and she reexamined the eye and believed it to now have a fungal infection. She told me that they could throw everything they have at it but that in the end they’ve been able to save very few. So she agreed that due the state of the eye and the lack of time to be super aggressive with it the best option at this point is enucleation.