Am I messing up my green bean?

[DawgLady]

I have a very lovely green bean. He’s smart, willing, brave, and doesn’t get ruffled when I make mistakes.

Problem is, I make LOTS of mistakes with him at the little jumps (like crossrails) we’re jumping. I don’t do a great job of keeping him straight or balanced, so it’s miss after miss. Plus I’m an amateur with an average eye, so there’s that.

My dear young boy keeps on trucking, but I’m afraid I’ll mess him up this way. Part of me wants to tell my trainer to demote me to poles until I can get my sh*t together and learn to ride.

Thoughts? I don’t want to be that client who bosses the trainer, but I’m really nervous I’ll teach this horse bad things.

Edited to add: he gets training rides, so at least there’s someone teaching him how to do things correctly.

[hoopoe]

Sounds like you need to have some training rides on more experienced horse to refresh your techniques

[joiedevie99]

To me, that sounds like a great idea. Take some lessons on other horses, and work on your eye on this horse over poles. When you feel like you’ve mastered the straightness and balance and all the flatwork elements, try again.

[Redlei44]

I feel your pain. One consolation is that missing to crossrails is a handy skill that ammy horses need to get good at. Missing to a jump they can walk over is frustrating but not the end of the world. Or so I tell myself.

At least you know why you’re missing - no good canter, no distance. For sure ride other horses in the meantime if you can. Focus on your flatwork with your young horse (as appropriate) - half halting, pace control, lateral work. As those become confirmed, your jumps will come up much better.

[DawgLady]

Thank you, I appreciate the support!

You’re so right. I can work on straightness, responsiveness, balance, etc with no jumps whatsoever involved. Once I have a really rideable canter, I think the jumping will suck less.

[Alterration]

The fact that you’re asking this question means you probably aren’t I prefer to take my green beans over poles and I don’t micromanage. They need to learn to adjust by themselves - Littaeur is your friend here - and this way neither they, nor I, can screw things up too badly. I graduate to jumps when they’ve proven they can adjust on a loose rein. Loads of different distances.

If you need to jump larger fences to stay sharp, taking some lessons on experienced horses helps!

[173north]

I’ve always been told not to micromanage or look for a distance at crossrails/small verticals on a baby. They have to figure out where their legs go, they have to keep moving forward, and they have to learn to adjust themselves. You are not going to teach him bad habits or destroy his confidence by “missing” to a jump he can step over!

The most important thing is that when you miss, stay really quiet and stay with him. He needs to learn that sometimes he’ll have to bail you out, and that he won’t be accidentally ‘punished’ for doing that by the rider catching him in the mouth or getting left behind.

I think you are right on in thinking your issues stem from the canter and all that can be worked on without jumps involved, or with poles. Once you have a straight, forward, adjustable canter in your toolbox, the jumping will be so much easier. You could also ask your trainer about very simple gridwork, like canter poles set up to a little crossrail. This lessens the pressure on both of you to ‘find the distance’ while still practicing jumping together.

[endlessclimb]

I do a LOT of lunging over small jumps with babies, so I see “misses” all the time. They’ve got to work it out on their own.

Just don’t punish a bad distance and all will be well.

[findeight]

Yes chipping safely is a good skill for an ammy horse BUT they can only learn what we teach them and somebody needs to teach him how to consistently get to and over a jump correctly sooooo…and it takes more time to undo bad habits and reteach. Really not setting him up for future success here not to mention advancing your riding skills.

Seems to me you are stuck on jumps instead of developing the good, balanced, straight horse and rhythmical canter that will take you to them. Jump is just a correct canter stride, manage the balance and straightness of the canter, leave him alone and those jumps will be right there. Not the “OMG a jump” approach. This is where a good understanding of basic dressage principles helps. Not Zee Big Dressaaaage, the very basic principles so you dont micromanage every step trying to create something thats not there…something we Adult Ammies are famous for. Self included.

Most good HJ trainers have such knowledge and can teach it. Helps if you can ride a schoolmaster to learn what its supposed to feel like. Perhaps an honest discussion with your trainer about basics for both you and the horse and you short term and long term goals would be a good thing here. Like mastering straightness, balance and rhythm of the canter on the flat so you can later take that over fences.

Also, its fine if you want do do most of your own work with your Greenie but it sounds like your current barn is not going to “ nourish” your growth as a rider or provide the guidance in bringing him along you might find elsewhere. Set yourself and the horse up for success by getting the right tools.

[Jackie_Cochran]

YES about Littauer’s method helping. “Schooling Your Horse” is excellent, and you can also find his training program in “Common Sense Horsemanship.”

I was a very elementary level rider (though I did have 4 years trail riding experience) and my first horse had only 3 weeks of students riding him in lessons training before I got him, a 5 yr. old Anglo-Arab gelding. As I could not afford a trainer and had a hard time finding/affording good lessons I was mostly on my own.

I managed, by following Littauer religiously, to train my green broke horse to become a decent jumper, we regularly jumped 3’6", the horse did not get into rushing (thank you Littauer) or refusing (except in the rare emergency) and was a good boy that I mostly jumped with loose/sagging reins.

Back then 3’6" was considered a low jump for a hunter, adult hunter classes often had 4’ jumps.

If I had not followed Littauer’s training program I would have ruined my horse instead of making him a safe jumper.

Vladimir Littauer IS your friend if you want to train a safe and sane horse.

[Mouse_amp_Bay]

It’s going to happen. If the horse isn’t flustered, I think it is feeling worse to you than it actually is (or the trainer would have intervened! Lol).

Reality of green beans is that few have natural innate rhythm or an even canter stride. They’re learning; you’re learning. Focus on developing a good consistent canter, even, equal into both reins. Once you have that, you can start to see the distance and get to a good spot. It can take a while to get there.

If the cross-rails feel like too much, chat with your trainer. Maybe more could be gained by setting a ‘normal’ 5 or 6 stride between two poles, then working on adding up as neeeded to help balance that canter. Goal is to have an even 5, 6 or even 7 strides, not a bunch of long ones and then a small one.

Alternative option is to take some dressage lessons, or ask for some flat lessons, to allow you to build skills without feeling like you will need to jump. No need to always jump. I think some trainers get worried that you will get bored or not get your ‘monies worth’ from a lesson if you don’t jump … asking for a flat lesson to give yourself the time and space to figure it out can help. Good luck and have fun!

[DawgLady]

@Mouse_amp_Bay

I think some trainers get worried that you will get bored or not get your ‘monies worth’ from a lesson if you don’t jump

Good call; I think this is part of what’s happening. My trainer wants to keep me happy. Maybe she thinks I have a burning desire to jump the bean? Because…I don’t. I have a burning desire for my horse to be developed correctly!

[mmeqcenter]

Missing to xrails shouldn’t cause any harm - they basically canter over them anyway. Also, some upper level (event?) rider has said (was it WFP?) it’s important to teach them how to handle misses, because if you get them in perfect every time, they don’t develop their own eye and don’t learn how to get themselves out of tricky situations.
You definitely want to get your eye solidified before trying to jump him any higher, though. Taking lessons on schoolmasters is a great idea, as is working on poles.

To add to the idea that your trainer might be having you jump because she thinks you want you to be and that it’s necessary for you to “get your monies worth.” Many trainers don’t really have the skill set to teach a lesson on the flat, and they get bored and thus send the student over fences. Definitely tell your trainer you’d like to stick to flat/poles lessons for a while if that’s what you want to do, but note that if she pushes hard for you to jump in your lessons, you may want to consider finding a different trainer to lesson with for a while. Such as a dressage trainer.

[Cocorona]

Make a habit of grabbing the mane and holding onto it for a stride after every jump regardless of the distance and he’ll never think anything went wrong!! The bigger thing to teach him is that he always goes forward and if he does, you’ll be with him.

[DawgLady]

Yes, definitely! My trainer does advise me to reach up and grab mane. Which I’m more than glad to do :).

To be objective, I’m not sure my horse knows anything is “wrong.” He doesn’t know the difference between a good distance, a bad distance, or a hole in the ground at this stage. He just knows to get himself to the other side = good boy. But…it occurs to me that enough bad distances could create bad jumping technique. I would hate to see that happen.

[sportyspicepony]

As someone with a TERRIBLE eye for finding a distance, I feel your pain! Teaching a horse adjustability is something that can only really come after they have developed a good, straight canter, so definitely focus on that before worrying about being able to spot distances and ride to them.

Can you jump from the trot for a little while while you’re developing your horse’s canter? Some people find it harder to trot jumps, but it really just depends on the horse, and it can help them rock back and be rounder because they’re not falling forward and just cantering over it.

Also placing poles are your friend! You can trot up to an x with a canter pole out in front and if your trot is forward enough, the pole sets the distance for you.

Just get in your two point, work on closing your hip angle with the horse’s motion and make sure you’re not grabbing his mouth, and you won’t mess him up!

Edited to add I just googled “closing the hip angle” because I wasn’t sure if that was the correct way to word it, and found this GREAT article about the most common rider position issues. Might be helpful if any of these apply to you! https://practicalhorsemanmag.com/training/10-time-tested-rider-position-fixes

[McGurk]

The very, very best way to make a good ammy friendly horse is to set up lots of low grids and gymnastics and to encourage the horse through them while in two point, on loose reins and grabbing mane. (See references to Littauer and Common Sense Horsmanship, above.)

I’m also a big fan of cavaletti and placement rails to help the young horse figure stuff out - same technique - two point, grab mane, lots of leg, let the horse figure it out.

The bonus is that these exercises help your balance and body control too.

Always riding to fences on contact and trying to ride to a distance is a pretty good way to produce rider dependent, “pro ride only” horse.

When trying a horse for a client, or having a client try the horse, a test for seeing if the horse “can take a joke” is miss on purpose to see how the horse handles it. Or tell the client to ride like a beginner - two point, grab mane and kick on - and see what happens. Bonus difficulty points if the rider jumps up the neck. The best horses just cheerfully jump what’s in front of them safely anyway. <<<<That’s the horse you’re trying to develop, because they’re aren’t enough of them to go around for the riders that need them.

[Alterration]

@McGurk

When trying a horse for a client, or having a client try the horse, a test for seeing if the horse “can take a joke” is miss on purpose to see how the horse handles it. Or tell the client to ride like a beginner - two point, grab mane and kick on - and see what happens

Yes!! And usually I would accept two answers…either the nice “jump it anyway” or the very polite “slow to a stop” (depending on the level of person I was helping to buy the horse for) with no leg applied. You wouldn’t believe the number of very fancy horses who are unable to accomplish this very simple task.

[scislandsprite]

I second this, great technique! If I’m being honest, I even do this with some of the horses that are more finished as well

[To_the_MAX]

Agree - as long as you’re keeping the jumps low enough that he can easily get to the other side, you’re just giving him opportunities to think for himself and become a good ammy horse. I mess up plenty with my coming 4 year old…granted, I’m only doing groundwork with her but believe me, plenty of opportunities still exist LOL! I think at this point just understanding that the expectation is getting to the other side is enough. Gymnastics and poles are your friend at this point as well, as others have mentioned.